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Civ IV Hall of Fame Updated at last!!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Noble Zarkon, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    The Civilization IV Hall of Fame has been updated at last - apologies for my absence from the site due to a crazy work schedule, back down to 1 job now so should be more regular again in posting and updating.

    53 games were accepted since the previous update, good to see some old faces submitting again!

    Congratulations to @Anysense for the highest score of the update with a Large, Epic, Deity, Space Colony game for 833,613 points.

    @Anysense was the most active player during this update, submitting 13 games.

    Only 6 players were brave enough to take on Deity this update:

    @Anysense - 1300 AD, Duel, Normal, Deity, Domination game for 443,367 points.
    @Anysense - 1230 AD, Tiny, Epic, Deity, Cultural game for 367,544 points.
    @Anysense - 1585 AD, Duel, Normal, Deity, Space Colony game for 210,151 points.
    @Anysense - 500 AD, Standard, Normal, Deity, Domination game for 355,966 points.
    @Anysense - 1320 AD, Tiny, Epic, Deity, Cultural game for 207,572 points.
    @Anysense - 1240 AD, Large, Epic, Deity, Space Colony game for 833,613 points.
    @Anysense - 1575 AD, Tiny, Normal, Deity, Space Colony game for 348,640 points.
    @Anysense - 110 BC, Small, Marathon, Deity, Diplomatic game for 523,759 points.
    @Anysense - 1265 AD, Duel, Epic, Deity, Cultural game for 303,797 points.
    @Anysense - 1310 AD, Standard, Epic, Deity, Space Colony game for 644,423 points.
    @cseanny - 3400 BC, Duel, Normal, Deity, Conquest game for 37,912 points.
    @cseanny - 1680 BC, Small, Normal, Deity, Conquest game for 148,585 points.
    @Pious_Pete - 2034 AD, Tiny, Quick, Deity, Space Colony game for 8,093 points.
    @Pious_Pete - 2036 AD, Tiny, Quick, Deity, Space Colony game for 7,116 points.
    @Pious_Pete - 2039 AD, Tiny, Quick, Deity, Space Colony game for 9,040 points.
    @shyuhe - 1800 AD, Standard, Normal, Deity, Diplomatic game for 124,197 points.
    @shyuhe - 2090 BC, Duel, Marathon, Deity, Conquest game for 59,304 points.
    @shyuhe - 2024 AD, Standard, Quick, Deity, Diplomatic game for 12,081 points.
    @Sun Tzu Wu - 1240 BC, Duel, Quick, Deity, Conquest game for 38,012 points.
    @Swordnboard - 375 AD, Standard, Normal, Deity, Diplomatic game for 248,654 points.
    @Swordnboard - 1880 BC, Duel, Normal, Deity, Religious game for 42,580 points.
    @Swordnboard - 1880 BC, Duel, Normal, Deity, Religious game for 28,981 points.
    @Swordnboard - 1760 BC, Duel, Normal, Deity, Religious game for 28,715 points.

    Gauntlets

    Congratulations to @shyuhe for winning G-Major 163 with a date of 1270 AD, @Anysense finished slightly behind in 1320 AD and @Pious_Pete was third with a date of 1764AD.

    Congratulations to @shyuhe for winning G-Minor 240 with a date of 1570 AD, @SittinDown finished second in 1812 AD.

    ** New Gauntlet Starting **

    G-Major 164 - Space Colony, Deity, Ancient, Large, Epic, Rain Forest, (check options)


    ** New Gauntlet Starting **

    G-Minor 241 - Domination, Settler, Ancient, Standard, Normal, Pangaea, (check options)


    ** New Gauntlet Starting **

    G-Major 165 - Time, Prince, Any Era, Small, Any Speed, Big and Small, Egypt - High Score Wins! (check options)
     
    Anysense likes this.
  2. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    New Number One Entries:
    A number of players gained number one positions:

    @Anysense with a 1310 AD, Standard, Epic, Deity, Space Colony game for 644,423 points.
    @Anysense with a 110 BC, Small, Marathon, Deity, Diplomatic game for 523,759 points.
    @Anysense with a 1575 AD, Tiny, Normal, Deity, Space Colony game for 348,640 points.
    @Anysense with a 1240 AD, Large, Epic, Deity, Space Colony game for 833,613 points.
    @Anysense with a 1230 AD, Tiny, Epic, Deity, Cultural game for 367,544 points.
    @Anysense with a 1265 AD, Duel, Epic, Deity, Cultural game for 303,797 points.
    @Anysense with a 1585 AD, Duel, Normal, Deity, Space Colony game for 210,151 points.
    @Anysense with a 500 AD, Standard, Normal, Deity, Domination game for 355,966 points.
    @cseanny with a 1680 BC, Small, Normal, Deity, Conquest game for 148,585 points.
    @Swordnboard with a 1880 BC, Duel, Normal, Deity, Religious game for 42,580 points.
    @Swordnboard with a 375 AD, Standard, Normal, Deity, Diplomatic game for 248,654 points.

    @Anysense with a 1860 BC, Small, Marathon, Immortal, Domination game for 200,569 points.
    @Anysense with a 1100 AD, Tiny, Normal, Immortal, Diplomatic game for 206,114 points.
    @cseanny with a 3280 BC, Duel, Normal, Immortal, Conquest game for 40,402 points.
    @shyuhe with a 1270 AD, Standard, Epic, Immortal, Cultural game for 158,183 points.

    @cseanny with a 3480 BC, Duel, Normal, Emperor, Conquest game for 10,453 points.

    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Monarch, Conquest game for 28,349 points.
    @Pangaea with a 1555 AD, Small, Normal, Monarch, Space Colony game for 295,970 points.

    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Prince, Conquest game for 24,174 points.

    @boogaboo with a 1320 AD, Duel, Marathon, Noble, Space Colony game for 218,964 points.
    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Noble, Conquest game for 20,262 points.
    @dogides with a 1515 AD, Standard, Normal, Noble, Space Colony game for 184,510 points.
    @shyuhe with a 1570 AD, Tiny, Normal, Noble, Space Colony game for 154,574 points.

    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Warlord, Conquest game for 16,435 points.
    @shulec with a 1475 AD, Huge, Epic, Warlord, Space Colony game for 187,212 points.

    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Chieftain, Conquest game for 17,576 points.

    @cseanny with a 3560 BC, Duel, Normal, Settler, Conquest game for 11,641 points.

    A number of players gained a composite table High Score (i.e. Any Condition):

    @Anysense with a 1310 AD, Standard, Epic, Deity, game for 644,423 points.
    @Anysense with a 1300 AD, Duel, Normal, Deity, game for 443,367 points.
    @Anysense with a 1265 AD, Duel, Epic, Deity, game for 303,797 points.

    @Pangaea with a 1555 AD, Small, Normal, Monarch, game for 295,970 points.

    @dogides with a 1515 AD, Standard, Normal, Noble, game for 184,510 points.
    @shyuhe with a 1570 AD, Tiny, Normal, Noble, game for 154,574 points.
     
    Anysense likes this.
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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  4. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

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    Wow , a lot of entries!
    And I thought I was playing too much..

    Congrats to all :)
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  5. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Good haul of quality games this time! A fair few impressive results. In particular, 375 AD Diplomatic victory is astounding. I definitely need to look into it, thanks for four saves Swordnboard!
     
  6. Swordnboard

    Swordnboard Chieftain

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    You’ve got quite a few impressive results to ponder on yourself, deity cultural dates in the early 1200s are sick! Glad to see so many submissions and excited to check out some of the gauntlets. Thanks for the update, @Noble Zarkon!
     
  7. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Sometimes I had feeling that I coquered too much, your game makes it perfectly clear that the more the better is not necessarily the best.
    I've been trying to make something good out of Sushi in regard with Culture, but so far it seems to be on par with conventional wonderspaming approach.
     
  8. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I haven't got around to playing a space game on marathon yet, just playing some UN/Culture games and studying the first part - conquering and building economy for a surge towards corporations. Still, I have problems here. For one thing, AI may simply be too slow with Alpha. Then there is happiness issue; it seems almost impossible to grow without Calendar. I remedied it with vassals on epic/normal, but on marathon maintenance starts getting out control way before I can reach Feudalism. Besides, on a small map (even Terra) most AI's are already dead or left with just one city by the time I can even Oracle Feudalism.

    This part for Diplomatic victory is mostly the same as for Space, but I have only a vague idea how to play further. I made a t209 save to be able to compare my game with Kaitzilla's 600AD Space Colony. Of course, huge and small are very different, but there isn't a more suitable game for comparison. Small size really hurts, by that time I could have some 10 cities more on a larger map.

    A couple of screeshots for comparison.
    Spoiler :

    Thats my 110 BC UN game.
    1.JPG
    Kaitzilla's game.
    2.JPG
    WastinTime's.
    3.JPG

    I have 5 cities more than Kaitzilla, but I'm somewhat behind in tech and my bpt is a bit smaller (was building ~50:science: to get Feudalism). On the whole it looks good, even timing for 100% GE seems fine (t283), although it may be difficult to get enough GS for bulbing at this rate. But that is only good until you compare it to WastinTime's 90AD game. He was in the same situation on t178, except that his research rate was nearly 200:science: per turn higher, mostly thanks to GLH and four island cities (settling those 4 cities adds about 150:commerce: at the cost of ~40:gold: maintenance).

    I can see ways for improvement (finding a start with food, for instance), but I haven't a clue how I can get there that fast - its incredible even for Inca. Perhaps, BW from one hut and IW from another can do the trick:hmm: Good luck with getting that lucky:D
     
  9. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    There were some nice games posted and it's great to see continued interest in the HOF, so a hearty congratulations go out to all of the people who submitted games! Also, great thanks to the staff for continuing to administer the site and these games; we love all of you! :)

    It's also nice to see some of my #1 records get toppled; competition is healthy and is certainly welcomed by me! I don't believe that any of my current #1 slots are unbeatable, and it is great to see people trying and succeeding at toppling those records!


    If I may make a humble request, I would encourage, entreat, and challenge players to use Leaders other than Huayna Capac.

    Several players went to great lengths recently to reduce the total number of #1 slots held by Huayna Capac.

    I would ask that if you are playing games with an intent of claiming a #1 position, please make every effort to convince yourself to play with any other Leader.

    If you absolutely must use Huayna Capac, then I would also ask that you simply target replacing existing #1 slots that were already held by Huayna Capac, so as not to increase the total number of #1 slots held by that Leader. Thank you.


    That's an interesting approach. Having played many "traditional" Cultural Victory games, I do find it exciting to see a Sid's Sushi game competing with and beating those results.

    There have been many traditional Cultural games where I have felt a lack of "oomph" during the period of having "finished" teching but still building Buildings--not enough Food coming in to whip my Cathedrals in a timely manner without crippling the production of Great Artists, for example. Having the Food from Sid's Sushi for extra whipping, while having to tech deeper into the tech tree and also give up the ability to build Monasteries, sounds like a fun tradeoff to explore.

    I would be interested in hearing your take on Great People in a Sid's Sushi Cultural Victory game. Do you still make a lot of Great Artists for Culture Bombs or does Sid's Sushi make them not that useful?

    About how many Great People do you target making on your way to Sid's Sushi and which ones would you ideally receive?


    Could you kindly explain the benefits that you seek from researching Feudalism? I tend to delay learning Feudalism in my games, so it would be very enlightening to find out what I'm missing out on.
     
  10. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Great Artists bring about one third of total culture in legendary cities, that is they are highly relevant. This is partly due to extra food from Sushi. In the Epic/Tiny/Suleiman game Sushi peaked at 44:food: and 176:culture:. That's a lot food allowing at least 10 more artists than a city could have otherwise and more Great Artists produced as well.

    Although every bulb shaves off a few turns on the way to Sushi, with each bulb I also miss a culture bomb and those are huge. It seems that are still worth it. Assuming 6 religions in use, every turn of Sushi is worth at least 3*176*5=2640:culture: per turn. Thats not even counting Hermitage and extra artists. But I never managed to finish all the cathedrals that soon and there still can be some Sushi resources to hook up, so I think 2500:culture: per turn is a good - albeit rough - estimate.

    I use GSpy from Communism for the final GA. It can be easily researched using rep beakers from specialists, even with slider at 0% research.

    Feudalism is all about vassals. There are used mainly for extra:), although there are other uses. For example, they help you to collect corporation resources while only half of their land counts towards domination.
    It depends on the game speed and map size. On marathon AI's are pretty much useless, so you either kill them or vassalize them at one city for :). On a faster game speed and particularly on large maps you often haven't got enough time to take the whole map. Hence it makes sense to have some fairly large vassals, who can make some research for you. This way you also make sure that they won't steal Lib and you can use it for Radio/Medicine/Railroads/AL, whatever you need for a chosen victory condition.

    When to research Feudalism is an interesting question. There are vital techs such as Currency, Calendar and CoL that are typically researched first, but after that there is no obvious favourite. On epic speed I used to get Feudalism before expanding to 13 cities, so I could switch to vassalage wasting only one turn for extra experience. Extra :) is welcome too, because at this point my core cities already have at least 5:mad: from whipping, which can be a bit of a problem.

    On marathon the conquest goes so fast that it makes vassalage completely irrelevant. Besides, by the time I can have Feudalism I have at least 30 cities, which means 4 turns to switch 1 civic. This also makes CS usless other than for irrigation and as a prerequisite for Paper and Nationalism.
     
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  11. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I used to disband most of the warriors whipped for overflow gold because they cost maintenance and cities below size 3 don't need military police. However, they can be useful.

    First conquered cities usually protected only by unpromoted archers and have 20% culture defence. Lets see what warriors can do.
    On the left we have a table for a praetorian vs untouched archer, on the right - against an archer damaged by a warrior.
    I like the difference:)
    1.jpg
    The damage done by a warrior varies and there is nearly 39% chance that the archer will remain unscathed. In case of a hilltop city this probability goes up to 59%:(. Still, it may be worth it to drag a few warriors along with praetorians either to soften archers or for cleanup. A lucky warrior can become a medic or get CR2 promotion and later get upgraded to praetorian for free with GG.
     
  12. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Usually, I target Incan/Elnglish slots, and as I'm implementing some 'recent' techniques and discoveries, quite a few old Incan records will fall. Although, I'm afraid that certain Conquest/Domination firsts are unbeatable.

    Lately I've been trying to beat some AP games on Immortal and Deity; this area is largely occupied by Inca as well. Immortal firsts are beatable alright, but most of the Deity ones are really hard to crack. It takes a fair bit of luck to get several early worker steals without quechua, and it must coincide with at least one relevant tech from a hut.

    Larger map sizes are more interesting, there is more time and more room spread out. There is even time for warrior rushing! Like WastinTime said, 10-12 warrior will usually do it. Although it very luck dependent. I have once lost only 5 warriors! But I also lost 13 warrior when I got particularly unlucky, and that involved losing 3 fights in a row at 90%.

    However, the main problem is AI stealing the Oracle. I stopped using Hatty and Mansa after they ruined a few games, they are the most dangerous ones, even though they start without Mysticism.

    Currently playing Deity/Marathon/Huge with Suleiman on a typical toroidal pangaea map.
    The first stage went fine. I Managed to steal 4 workers from De Gaulle, before he built too many archers and it became too dangerous. Something that would not be a problem for Huayna Capac at all. Still, I think I could warrior rush him and build the Apostolic Palace in Paris, but I had a safer alternative, so what was the point in taking such risks as rushing a nutter like De Gaulle?
    Spoiler :

    I've just finished library (with 5 chops of course). Istanbul is working wheat, FP, one gold and two scientists, while the two southern gold are borrowed by other cities.

    The record is turn 175 victory, that is I need t174 or earlier, meaning t144 or earlier AP. Math bulb is expected on turn 132. The Oracle on t133 then? Probably not! I had it stolen by Gandhi on turn 135 in the last game, finishing it on t133 fells too much risk, even if does save a handfull of forests and workerturns. I can finish research in 19 turns without failgold from the SH and in 16 turns at 100% research. Even 107+19=126 is 6 turns earlier than Math! Not sure that I chop enough forests quickly though, need to count workerturns. There is a prechopped forest in Edirne, that would make for an eight-turn worker, he will time to contribute.

    Math is still useful. It is better than Industrious for the purpose of building the AP, which becomes something less than 11 BFC chops. It also boosts chops for building missionaries and is cumulative with Imperialistic (two math chops almost finish a settler!), very useful for city gifts if you need them.
    Civ4ScreenShot0145.JPG
     
  13. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    Good to hear!


    I remember looking at some of those games in the past, and there was at least one game, if not multiple games, that used the now-banned tactic of Liberating Cities while at war with an AI.

    So, a player might not only have to go up against the stacked odds of doing better than a Quechua rush, but also have to have tactics for getting an AI's Votes that equal or beat the speed of that now-banned approach for getting an AI to vote for you.


    Good point.

    If you aren't planning on tech-trading to gain techs along the critical path but are mainly getting Alphabet to gift techs for the +4 bonus relations due to Fair and Forthright Trading, then it indeed can be counter-productive to play with Mansa in the game, not only because of the reason that you described, but also because Mansa is hard to steal Workers from with his Warrior-destroying Skirmishers. Even if you are trying to go for Alphabet to trade for critical-path techs, often times, early-game techs are researched by enough AIs that many AIs will trade them to you, with a possible exception of Masonry.

    It's also all-too-easy for Hatty to get a War Chariot early on, once again ruining the chance for easy Worker-stealing.

    Isabella is also notorious for chasing after early Priesthood and an early Oracle, so she would be another Leader to avoid picking as your opponent.


    That approach is pretty clever!


    It does beg the question, though, as to whether it could be worth playing as Creative for an earlier Library and thus an earlier start on generating a Great Scientist.

    Then again, it sounds as though you've already chosen Philosophical, which already speeds up that Great Scientist, so perhaps it's just unrealistic to expect to get Mathematics before Chopping The Oracle.

    It's probably a lot safer to plan to complete The Oracle without Math-enhanced Chops, saving Mathematics for the other items that you mentioned Chopping. Of course, doing so increases the burden on the total number of Worker turns required early on. But, getting The Oracle sooner also has the advantage of allowing you to put more organic Hammers into building The Apostolic Palace, assuming that you were only delaying the completion of The Oracle while waiting for Mathematics to come in while already having the prerequisite techs in hand to grab Theology from The Oracle, so in a sense, you can "gain back" some later Worker turns by needing to Chop less Forests for The Apostolic Palace due to putting in more production from Hammers-producing squares into that Wonder.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  14. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Lost this game to another power outage:cry: Third time this month:mad: UPS would be nice but I only need it at home, at university everything is fine - except that I have little time to play (and plenty of time to run mapfinder:)).

    Anyway I played on a bit. Finished Oracle on turn 128. Thats 16 turns to build the AP, actual chopping will start in 4 turns, when I have Math. After that I need only to spread the AP religion (Christianity?) to 10 civs, what can be easier?:lol: I will have to spread Judaism to certain civs as well. Then I bribe them into Judaism a couple of turns before vote and switch to 'no state religion' or stay in Judaism for +1 with those civs. Great thing Alphabet:). It must be doable, but it would require serious planning.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShot0172.JPG


    I don't feel like playing it further on, though. This game will be good for training later, when I'm back to playing AP games again. It offers some challenge with so many AI's without any religion, and since this game is no longer valid for HoF, I can reload as many times as I need and try different ways of handling the situation.

    Creative only makes library cheaper, but does not speed it up. Still, it saves precious forests and worker turns, and free border pops are very useful too, they effectively make sencond ring forests 1.5 times bigger (like Math!). The only Philo+Creative leader is Pericles who starts with a scout. Sun Tzu Wu had a 1860 BC victory on Large/Marathon with Bismarck, only 2 turns slower than WastinTime's game with HC. I might try something like that with Pericles one day, but now I'm rather tired of religios games.

    All in all I've beaten 3 Incan firsts on Immortal and 1 on Deity during this 'AP session'. Does not sound like much:hmm: But I'll be back:devil:

    Lots to do. There is Space G-Major, which is bound to take a lot of time, and I want to beat that 460 AD Culture game - another hard Incan first. http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=26523
    Then I want to prove that Romans are better at building spaceships than Persians.
     
  15. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Last 10 submitted games were mine; where is everyone? I got number 30000:banana:
     
  16. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

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    I'm having a hard time finding a good start :| ... and I'm going to experiment with different maps.
    It may take a while!
     

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