CiV needs some competition CTP3 perhaps?

[-FC-Commando]

Don't get me wrong i love the series. But when Civ 3 was released and i didn't like it, i kept playing CTP2.

Now that Civ 5 is a dud Take2/Firaxis could use a kick in the behind if there only were some competition. Now that the field is wide open the time would be ripe for a third installment of CTP.

We need a good Civ game and Take2/Firaxis don't seem to care anymore. And why should they? We keep on buying anyway. Maybe somebody else will step up to the plate.

 

[d4everman]

I'd rather see SMAC II. But if Firaxis makes it I'll wait a few months from release before thinking about a purchase.

 

[lschnarch]

A modern, improved CtP would be something which I liked.

 

[Krall]

Problem is there's no one to take up the reins. That alone makes the sour taste in my mouth even worse knowing I'm left with Civ V.

hmm maybe I should see what FreeCiv has been up to after all this time.

 

[Tutkarz]

We should develop something better than capitalism. Since there are at last few guys with great ideas about games but they just cant make it without money or extensive help from graphics/programmers to create decent game.

 

[pickle]

freeciv ~ civ2
at least that is what they are aiming for

 

[DavidPBacon]

Does Activision still holds the franchise? Because they called it Call to Power for a reason. If they hold it, then I think is quite difficult to be a CTP3, but if there was one, I would like them to incorporate some ideas from the Ages of Man Mod. From the main series they could borrow the limited resources, the hex maps(but I would like a smaller scale) and the road and building maintainence. But please, no nosense like units embarking by themselves, that is just too much for my taste.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Yes I thought the same (OP) while waiting for the patches and expansions for Civ4 which took like forever and the game was actualy never realy perfected.
Also I know how much time I spend with the game so I can say that for really good product I am willing to spend up 200€ but like this (civ5) I am sorry to spend even 40€.

 

[Mallipeep]

We should develop something better than capitalism.

Now THERE is a game that needs competition/sequel/something/ANYTHING.

Trevor Chan's Capitalism I/II - there hasnt been a game quite like it for 9 years.

 

[Bhoy]

I really really really really want CTP3. We should start a petition to Activision.

 

[zonk]

While there were certain things in CTP I liked, I have to say that personally -- I think CTP is closer to V than I find comfortable in terms of design philosophy (i.e., public works over workers, etc).

I would certainly like to see a challenger to the throne -- but my preferred challenger would look at something like Rise of Mankind/A New Dawn and say "Well, that's a good start... Now let's turn it up to 11"

If I were laying out the game requirements/vision, here's what I'd want...

• Extensive numbers of varied improvements, each with multiple bonus AND mallus
• MORE Wonders... ALWAYS more Wonders
• Let's keep the hex strategic map, but for tactical action -- we're going to break out to a separate battlefield map. I'm increasingly convinced that hex/1UpT is never going to work in V because Panzer General was a tactical game on a map scaled for tactical play. V is a STRATEGIC game, and you just cannot get the scale right
• We'll add in true "army" mechanics -- III armies on steroids... combined arms, Paradox style leaders.
• More variety to Great Persons -- I'd add levels -- truly historic icons vs. great persons vs. renowned citizens... icons would have certain abilities -- say -- become empire-wide advisors with bonuses. GPs could settle in individual cities. Citizens would have other abilities. I also had an idea where, rather than GPs building "special buildings" --- you build special buildings with flavor (say... Oxford or Harvard rather than a "University") and GPs could inhabit them, adding to their glory and bonuses, drawing other notables to your empire. Together with other changes - I'd add flavor... no more "Great Scientist" -- you'd get the 3 levels, but they'd have specialties... the physicist vs. the mathmatician. the biologist vs. the astronomer. etc.
• True trade and economic policies - no more gold hoarding, I'd institute complex systems of tax policies, inflation, public works, late game central banking, etc
• Replace "Social Policies" with a "Social Philosophies" tree -- keeping some of the same mechanics, but I WOULD truly make it a "pink tech tree", but with bonuses and names more appropriate to what it "is" -- certain civs are philosophical... certain civs are adventurers and explorers, etc.
• Expand and add depth to the tech tree -- multiple research at once would be a must, but you'd research multiple branches... forget "Flight" -- you're going to be researching aerodynamics, turbines, etc
• A more complex system of government that truly allows you to form a national system of leadership -- do you have a court system? Is it a common law or constitutional law system? Do you have a parliament? Is it made up of nobles? Is it bicameral? Do you have a strict separation of church and state? Allow seepage? Or are you a true theocracy?

In short, my dream Civ challenger would make V look like minesweeper or solitaire in comparison.

Now... I just need to become independently wealthy so I can shower a few dozen crackerjack developers with cash to produce my game.

 

[DavidPBacon]

Now... I just need to become independently wealthy so I can shower a few dozen crackerjack developers with cash to produce my game.

You got that rigth, cause even if I would love a Civ version like that, it would be a comercial failure. The money you would spent to that would not be matched by it's sales. Unfortunatelly, the World is not perfect.

Btw, what's wrong with public works? My biggest complain with CTP was it's lack of soul. Basically you didn't get to many rewards and remarks for doing things. There was a lack of Civ personalisation. What's the fun in playing the Brasilian civ if it doesn't feel that way. Civ III and IV got me even more spoiled. But other things were very cool.

 

[el_hidalgo]

The fact is we have the talent right here in this forum to develop a really competitive title. Why not? There seem to be a few people here who know the industry as well, of course, as the artists, programmers and designers we know from the mods. I would seriously consider doing something like this. But where to begin?

 

[zonk]

The fact is we have the talent right here in this forum to develop a really competitive title. Why not? There seem to be a few people here who know the industry as well, of course, as the artists, programmers and designers we know from the mods. I would seriously consider doing something like this. But where to begin?

Well, you're not going to get anywhere unless the whole team can agree on a common vision. Doesn't matter what kind of software you're building or how talented your development team is --- different visions invariably lead to problems. Everyone has to start on the same page once actual architecture (to say nothing of actually laying down code) begins to take shape.

To me, that would be the biggest challenge - you're probably right that there's enough talent to do it (and enough of that talent dissatisfied with V), but could you get everyone on the same page?

 

[Logan Marchman]

While there were certain things in CTP I liked, I have to say that personally -- I think CTP is closer to V than I find comfortable in terms of design philosophy (i.e., public works over workers, etc).

I would certainly like to see a challenger to the throne -- but my preferred challenger would look at something like Rise of Mankind/A New Dawn and say "Well, that's a good start... Now let's turn it up to 11"

If I were laying out the game requirements/vision, here's what I'd want...

• Extensive numbers of varied improvements, each with multiple bonus AND mallus
• MORE Wonders... ALWAYS more Wonders
• Let's keep the hex strategic map, but for tactical action -- we're going to break out to a separate battlefield map. I'm increasingly convinced that hex/1UpT is never going to work in V because Panzer General was a tactical game on a map scaled for tactical play. V is a STRATEGIC game, and you just cannot get the scale right
• We'll add in true "army" mechanics -- III armies on steroids... combined arms, Paradox style leaders.
• More variety to Great Persons -- I'd add levels -- truly historic icons vs. great persons vs. renowned citizens... icons would have certain abilities -- say -- become empire-wide advisors with bonuses. GPs could settle in individual cities. Citizens would have other abilities. I also had an idea where, rather than GPs building "special buildings" --- you build special buildings with flavor (say... Oxford or Harvard rather than a "University") and GPs could inhabit them, adding to their glory and bonuses, drawing other notables to your empire. Together with other changes - I'd add flavor... no more "Great Scientist" -- you'd get the 3 levels, but they'd have specialties... the physicist vs. the mathmatician. the biologist vs. the astronomer. etc.
• True trade and economic policies - no more gold hoarding, I'd institute complex systems of tax policies, inflation, public works, late game central banking, etc
• Replace "Social Policies" with a "Social Philosophies" tree -- keeping some of the same mechanics, but I WOULD truly make it a "pink tech tree", but with bonuses and names more appropriate to what it "is" -- certain civs are philosophical... certain civs are adventurers and explorers, etc.
• Expand and add depth to the tech tree -- multiple research at once would be a must, but you'd research multiple branches... forget "Flight" -- you're going to be researching aerodynamics, turbines, etc
• A more complex system of government that truly allows you to form a national system of leadership -- do you have a court system? Is it a common law or constitutional law system? Do you have a parliament? Is it made up of nobles? Is it bicameral? Do you have a strict separation of church and state? Allow seepage? Or are you a true theocracy?

In short, my dream Civ challenger would make V look like minesweeper or solitaire in comparison.

Now... I just need to become independently wealthy so I can shower a few dozen crackerjack developers with cash to produce my game.

Or just a bunch of exceptionally gifted modders. Hmm I wonder if there are any of those around here? My request- Make it playable on Mac. Pretty please.

 

[Krall]

The fact is we have the talent right here in this forum to develop a really competitive title. Why not? There seem to be a few people here who know the industry as well, of course, as the artists, programmers and designers we know from the mods. I would seriously consider doing something like this. But where to begin?

At the beginning

You should check out a couple of open source Civilization games:

http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.freeciv.net/

Even with talent readily available it's not that easy to get everyone together, set and accomplish goals, deal with having team members from all over the world, etc. Just look at some of the big mods for Civ IV, they are quite the undertaking.

 

[Warspite2]

Don't get me wrong i love the series. But when Civ 3 was released and i didn't like it, i kept playing CTP2.

Now that Civ 5 is a dud Take2/Firaxis could use a kick in the behind if there only were some competition. Now that the field is wide open the time would be ripe for a third installment of CTP.

We need a good Civ game and Take2/Firaxis don't seem to care anymore. And why should they? We keep on buying anyway. Maybe somebody else will step up to the plate.

What is up with all this CtP mentioning going on here around this forum? I mean, all people did was complain in the apolyton forums time and time again about both of those games and how bad they claimed they sucked. Now they mention it like its some holy grail or something. I mean come on. Thats just as bad as picking a superbowl team and saying, oh I like them now that they won the superbowl, they my favorite team. Where were you when that team was losing and needed your support? Don't state other false claims such as Civ 5 is a dud because it is far from that, check the polls in this very forum. None of the CtP games could ever be as good as Civ 5, thats not even close. You never even liked Civ 3 which is strange enough to begin with. Oh and lame thread.

 

[Andvare]

I'd rather see SMAC II. But if Firaxis makes it I'll wait a few months from release before thinking about a purchase.

IIRC EA has the right (or at least parts of it) to SMAC.
Imagine the company that killed Spore doing the same to SMAC. *shudder*
Of course, Firaxis isn't all that better, Colonization was a complete failure, something that has yet to be rectified.

 

[Maniacal]

If Activision still holds the rights for Call to Power you can probably expect to see some of the conspiracy DLC theories I've seen posted here.

 

[el_hidalgo]

Well, you're not going to get anywhere unless the whole team can agree on a common vision. Doesn't matter what kind of software you're building or how talented your development team is --- different visions invariably lead to problems. Everyone has to start on the same page once actual architecture (to say nothing of actually laying down code) begins to take shape.

To me, that would be the biggest challenge - you're probably right that there's enough talent to do it (and enough of that talent dissatisfied with V), but could you get everyone on the same page?

The vision: Civ IV.5. Or CTP 3. (I wonder if Activision would license the title if we came to them with a solid proposal.... They did release the source code for CTP2 to Apolyton, so they seem to be open to unconventional approaches, and they aren't doing anything with it now, afaik.)

Very broadly, the vision that interests me would be a god-game style (as opposed to board-game style) of immersive historical simulation, but not an outright sim, since it would have objective winning conditions.

To be clear, I am thinking of retail software, not an updated freeciv (worthy as that effort may be). Thus it would have some mainstream appeal, but nobody would mistake it for a console or casual game. Whatever one might say about the evils of the profit motive, it did produce Civ IV and many other great games. And it has a few other virtues as well: it focuses the mind on a common vision and the team's efforts on getting it done, since it can't make money until it's released.

On the business end, some sort of profit sharing would be essential (and I'm sure that's common in the industry), ideally in lieu of salary or as a large component of compensation, both as an incentive and to preserve capital. I am guessing the biggest expense by far is compensation. I don't see why everything couldn't be done virtually. I would want a small shop with a loyal fan-base and, although it would have to be profitable to survive and keep doing what we do, the idea would be to stay small and private, not sell ourselves to one of the big guys with their insatiable need for quarterly growth. That, rather than profits per se, can be the doom of a great game.

I'm not in the industry so there's a lot I don't know, and I'm sure there's a ton of stuff I'm overlooking, but it does seem possible....