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[GS] Civ of the Week: Ze Fwench

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Dec 10, 2018.

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Who should be next week's Civ?

Poll closed Dec 16, 2018.
  1. Brazil

    3 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. Russia

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. Dame Edna Everage

    20 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    • Leader: Catherine de Medici
    • Leader Ability: Monty Catherine's Flying Circus. Gains an extra level of Diplomatic Visibility against every Civ she's met. Gains +1 Spy Capacity at Castles, plus a free Spy. All Spies start with one Promotion. Catherine is also able to secretly buff Ze Fwench Civ in every patch and expansion. Look out Aztec - 5 more expansions and 72 patches, and she'll be A-Tier!
    • Civ Ability: Grand Tour. +20% Production towards Medieval, Renaissance, and Industrial Era Wonders. Double Tourism from all Wonders.
    • Unique Unit: Garde Imperiale. Basically a Bizzarro Red Coat. Unique Industrial Era Melee Unit (unlocks at Military Science, upgrades to Mechanized Infantry). Melee Strength 65, Movement 2, Produciton 340, Maintenance 5. +10 Combat Strength fighting on your Capital's Continent. Generates Great General Points from kills.
    • Unique Infrastructure: Chateau. Unique Improvement that unlocks at Humanism (one builder charge). Must be built adjacent to a River. Provides +2 Culture, +1 Appeal, +2 Culture if adjacent to a Wonder, and +1 Gold if next to a Luxury Resource.
    • Leader Agenda: Black Queen. Gains as many spies and as much diplomatic visibility as possible. Dislikes Civilizations that ignore espionage.
    • Suggested Reading List: "Let Petit Nicolas", or "Nicholas" in English (here). Written by Rene Goscinny. Yes, that Rene Goscinny. I honestly can't get my head around why these books are not more well known and popular. Do yourself a favour. Have a read. Or better yet, read them to your kids (or someone else's). Just hilarious.
    Notes:
     
    Drudy, Hawke9, Haig and 1 other person like this.
  2. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    Catherine can be fun to play as, but mostly thematically, rather than due to being particularly strong or capable.

    All hail the spy mistress! And her having a glass of wine is just perfect (before Firaxis reversed course on that).
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I was struggling to explain why I like France, but I think you nailed it.

    It's not strong, but it feels very role-playing.
     
  4. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    Interestingly the game is more challenging when you make decisions based on roleplay rather than just efficiency and effectiveness

    Food for thought. Or vin I guess.
     
  5. Sagax

    Sagax Warlord

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    Missed baguette joke in the title.

    Other than that, she’s one of the few (if not only) Vanilla civs that really encourage you to change your play style. For many players, espionage is an afterthought, but CdM’s spies can get insane. I can see her being a multiplayer nightmare, if early zerg rush was not the meta.

    That being said, still a bit salty about the leader pick - Richelieu could do the same. Though I admit, I kinda enjoy her slipping into Italian.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  6. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I absolutely adore the way she gets all Italian in your face when she declares war.
     
    acluewithout and DWilson like this.
  7. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    Or when she chides you for not following her agenda. It seems she only speaks French when she plays nice.
     
  8. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Warlord

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    I always read them even if I don't always comment. I like hearing the views of more experienced and better players. Thanks for these threads, they are valuable.
     
    Kmart_Elvis and shaglio like this.
  9. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I enjoy playing as France. She is one of my regular go-to's. Although I admit I buff the chateau a touch... but imo the later the ui, the better it should be, and chateaus are just too lovely not to have some.

    edit: and I'm perfectly happy with CdM as a leader. She was in a position of authority. Its certainly at least as justifiable as Joan.
     
    bbbt likes this.
  10. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    I like playing as France for three main reasons:
    - They have one of my favourite themes AND a stunning selection of medieval French ambient music to boot
    - I like playing culturally and always enjoy any Civ that helps me build Wonders faster
    - if I'm playing as Catherine I don't have to confront how annoying I find her as the French leader choice :mischief:
     
  11. local_hero

    local_hero Chieftain

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    I'm like AmazonQueen. Reading all threads and think that they are valuable because of the same reason. Struggle to contribute to the topics though.

    I like France too but they are a bit unappealing when looking at their abilities. And I agree with Eagle and Wilson that they are not that powerful, but yet... France and Catherine surprise me with how strong the spy ability is when it comes online, I rate it highly.
     
  12. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I expect I'll be playing a game with her soon as I still need the achievement for building an intelligence agency as France.

    How do you like to use spies? I find I don't use them a lot other than to counterspy or to up intel on war targets. What are some fun spy things to do with Catherine? Also, any game setting recommendations to make full use of her abilities?
     
  13. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    If Russia or Kongo is in the game they are invaluable for stealing Great Works. Otherwise, I steal gold to level them up then steal eurekas until I have tech parity, then I move the majority to counterspy.
     
    WillowBrook likes this.
  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Useless in Vanilla, but her mechanic was made useful in Rise and Fall. What a big difference these changes can make.

    You start with a +3 combat bonus that gets doubled to +6 once you put in a listening post, since nobody can do that before you. Get to Printing, and well, that's a lot of power. Of course, this doesn't help you with barbs or city states but is great for rushing. France pretty much has to play the start aggressive. With the AI being very aggressive early even on King+, that +3 really helps.

    I find the first spy mission is probably safest with listening post, and the maybe messing with a CS.

    Bonus towards most of the late game hitters which is nice. It's no China, but it's still good.

    Yea, basically this is the opposite of a redcoat but unlike the Redcoat, you can't get them for "free" which sucks but they are still good for emergency defense. Not very useful overall.

    Because it's stuck to a river, it's not in a good spot since you want to reserve river spots for other more useful things. You may want to spam these in a random tundra or otherwise useless spots to get tourism with flight. The yields themselves are rather poor. But at least it's more useful than the mission.

    She cares about diplomatic visibility, not always spies. You'll be friends with her if you are Mongolia, and France is also the civ you don't want to mess with since they negate your ability passively anyways. This actually tried to be a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Mongol_alliance

    France is probably of an average power. Much better than most people give them credit for because they underrate early game bonuses and overrate late game ones.

    Well, I'm not going to like, not play civ, until the expansion (that's crazy), so yea I'll still be playing games of course. And Australia can't just be left out!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  15. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    She's mainly fun because of the spies. The wonder bonus is alright. The rest is meh. The spy game was my only highlight with her on my game below.

    My game a few days ago I did do more stealing great works than I normally do. Mainly because of my opponents in the game were getting them, and I struggled to get any. I normally do more stealing gold than anything. I love gold. I still do that to get up to 3 promotions.

    Here's my start. If anyone wants to give this game a shot, you will have limited space. That gave me some challenge because of lack of space. Even after eliminating a nearby opponent, I still had limited space. I only had 10 cities I believe (standard size map), which for me is little.

    Spoiler :


    I struggled my game. My initial strategy was to aid my culture victory with reliquaries, but Japan wiped out my religion. :( Really t'd me off, and it blew one part of my strategy. I still built some apostles, but Japan converted so many civs, that I had trouble finding enemy apostles to kill mine. As Japan won't kill apostles with their religion. My strategy for Mont St. Michel was kind of a bust.

    Then I figured what the hell, I'll put chateaus everywhere. But they really do kind of suck for tourism. Sigh. Your best bet is the traditional cultural victory. This was one of my slowest cultural victory times. Interestingly, it was still faster than My England cultural victory time. I thought British museum was pretty good, but apparently not since they are one of my slowest times. Even France can do better. I chopped down all my forests and resources to put chateaus everywhere, didn't seem to help much. It hurt losing those sweet river woods lumbermills. It did look kind of cool though. I don't have a picture at night, but I'll try to find one.

    Spoiler :


    • Leader Ability: Monty Catherine's Flying Circus. Gains an extra level of Diplomatic Visibility against every Civ she's met. Gains +1 Spy Capacity at Castles, plus a free Spy. All Spies start with one Promotion. Catherine is also able to secretly buff Ze Fwench Civ in every patch and expansion. Look out Aztec - 5 more expansions and 72 patches, and she'll be A-Tier!
    • Probably her best ability (that's not saying much), at least their most fun ability
    • Civ Ability: Grand Tour. +20% Production towards Medieval, Renaissance, and Industrial Era Wonders. Double Tourism from all Wonders.
    • Meh. It's good, but flat bonuses don't make for the most interesting civs. As I said in another thread, GS civs really make vanilla civs really look vanilla. I still got beaten to a lot of wonders my game. I was only on King, so this 20% balanced out the 20% production bonus they get, yet I still lost many wonders.
    • Unique Unit: Garde Imperiale. Basically a Bizzarro Red Coat. Unique Industrial Era Melee Unit (unlocks at Military Science, upgrades to Mechanized Infantry). Melee Strength 65, Movement 2, Produciton 340, Maintenance 5. +10 Combat Strength fighting on your Capital's Continent. Generates Great General Points from kills.
    • I guess if you want to take out someone to make your cultural victory easier, this could work. But you will ruin all your relationships making sending trade routes, and getting open borders for foreign tourists that much harder. Useful only for era score in my honest opinion.
    • Unique Infrastructure: Chateau. Unique Improvement that unlocks at Humanism (one builder charge). Must be built adjacent to a River. Provides +2 Culture, +1 Appeal, +2 Culture if adjacent to a Wonder, and +1 Gold if next to a Luxury Resource.
    • Pretty crappy for getting tourism after flight I found out. I built these things in nearly every river square. Culture is alright, but it's fairly late culture.
    • Leader Agenda: Black Queen. Gains as many spies and as much diplomatic visibility as possible. Dislikes Civilizations that ignore espionage.
    • Her agenda isn't too hard to satisfy if you send her envoy/embassy asap. One of the less annoying agendas
     

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  16. Sagax

    Sagax Warlord

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    Level up with Siphon Funds, then pick the right cards and go on a Great Work Heist spree. Get the Quartermaster and mission speed up promotions for extra hon-hon-hon in your opponent’s face.
     
    WillowBrook likes this.
  17. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis Chieftain

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    I played France for the first time post-R+F, and I initially went for a cultural victory, but ended up having a surprisingly fun science victory out of them.

    I realized I had 3 scientific city states nearby. So I went for the Kilwa wonder, which I had a bonus to build. Being suzerain of those states gave me 30% science. Also ended up building Oxford for more science, and Potola to hold more spy cards.

    I only had 4 cities by the time my Gardés rolled around, but I used them to slice through Scythia like butter. Not only was I ahead of them technologically, that +10 continent bonus and +6 from diplomatic visibility helped tremendously. Pretty impressed by this UU.

    Late game, I had tall, productive cities ready to run spaceport projects. I used my spies to sabotage Brazil's spaceports, yet still had enough spies to counterspy my own spaceports!

    Super fun game, and I'm glad I went science with her. It was a little more unorthodox of a game as I've played before, but those are the kind of games I like the best.
     
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  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Actually trying domination with her right now. Errr... that sounds a bit naughtier than I intended. I did the same thing with Victoria in civ of the week. I actually find it more interesting to play them this way. Though I haven't got the ball rolling with France yet. Just starting. You can say I like domination with women... hehe. I like peaceful games, but both England and France are kind of lackluster in cultural victories.
     
  19. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    I find the spy ability to be the only really interesting thing about France, which is perhaps why I've only played them once. The Chateau is too finicky, the wonder bonus too boring, and the Garde Imperial is...ok I guess?
     
  20. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    Playing Aggressively is generally smart if you're going for a culture victory too. You definitely want to eliminate the civs with a lot of defensive culture.

    Unfortunately, in my last game as France, Persia ran away with domestic tourism AND they were on the other continent, so I went with a science win instead (athough I had built every Wonder from the renaissance onward, with the exception of the Venetian Arsenal). Grand Tour is nifty for snatching the wonders, but in terms of making me win the game i've found it fairly underwhelming. Châteaux straight up suck because the +2 culture from wonder adjacency doesn't stack (and it should because you WILL be spamming wonders as France). and Gardes Impériales are a fairly meh unit. No complaints about the extra spy and Diplo Vis though, both are immensely useful for pretty much every victory type.
     

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