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CIV series - whats not "fun"

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by joycem10, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. joycem10

    joycem10 Chieftain

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    "Still, the focus of Johnson's talk was on removing "unfun" aspects of games to create sufficient conceptual room for improvements."

    So the developers are looking to axe game concepts which are considered "unfun".

    Whats your personal pet peeves regarding "unfun" game aspects?

    Personally I'd have to point to corruption, mutual protection pacts (as opposed to a non-aggression treaty), the handling of battles between stacks, and AI behavior. Specifically, AI amphibious war tactics and AI use of (or lack thereof) arty.
     
  2. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Chieftain

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    Corruption affecting production. Sure, production should affect income (gold), but the loss of shields is far less rational and less "fun."

    Of course, I also support the "certain advances reduce corruption" idea. Alphabet, Writing, The Wheel, Printing Press, Free Artistry, Nationalism, Radio, Flight and Computers should all reduce corruption. In fact, Computers should eliminate corruption altogether.
     
  3. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I think the reason corruption is so powerful currently is to balance the game, since otherwise the mroe territory you have, the stronger you are period. That doesn't mean it's a perfect mechanism of course... I'm sure the clever guys over at Firaxis can come up with a funner way to have this balance.
     
  4. MaXXXXXuM

    MaXXXXXuM Chieftain

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    Hmmm, to me, whats not fun about Civ3:

    -Pollution and corruption are the first two that come to mind.

    - I also dont like how wars start for no reason, I think there should be some kinda motives for civs to fight other civs. (Although conquests does do this a little justice).

    - Dont like manually loading up all my units into boats and transporting them.
     
  5. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Pollution definately. "Whack-a-mole" gets tiring quick. I hated it ever my first Civ3 game. Not only would it mess up your worked tiles, it was hard to keep track of which tile was worked by which city (when they were close together). Not to mention it would happen every turn.
     
  6. The Templar

    The Templar Commissar

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    Good. The pollution whack-a-mole needs to go. Along with the herd of workers. Although I do want to see some need to be green in the game.

    Causus Belli requirements would also be cool.

    Have the UN doing something would also be cool. Perhaps it ratchets up those causus belli requirements?
     
  7. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Pollution, AI stupidity, trades broken due to factors totally out of your control yet you get the blame, lacking diplomatic options.

    And the big one: bugs.

    I actually rather like the current (C3C 1.15) corruption model.

    And heaven's forbid they remove pollution - make more thinking and less moving of workers necessary to handle it.
     
  8. Dogmeat

    Dogmeat Lupine humanoid

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    I dont like the way players are encouraged to build railroads on every single tile.

    Now, in Civ2, if you built railroads on all your tiles, your enemies would have an easy time moving about in your country. Also, the railroads had no effect on production on all tiles that produced 0-1 shields. I think that was good.

    The herd of workers need to go too.
     
  9. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    So, you are saying that now that we have computers there is no corruption in the world?
     
  10. JtheJackal

    JtheJackal Chieftain

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    The only thing I don't like are long inbetween turn times in later portions of large maps
     
  11. lbhhh

    lbhhh Chieftain

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    Although naval warfare was improved a lot in Conquests, it still needs improvement. Having a powerful navy sitting around doing nothing for lack of ennemy ships to sink is definitively"unfun".
     
  12. Turner

    Turner Chieftain Retired Moderator

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    No group orders. This is different from group moving. Say, take that stack of 10 calvary, and tell them to attack a tile/city/SoD until all either one is destroyed or number of attacks is depeleted. Telling those 25 arty to bomb - individually - that city you're attacking, to the SoD invading your land.

    Corruption, while tolerable (in C3C at least) needs to be rethought.
     
  13. col

    col Old Fart Retired Moderator

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    Diplo screen. Its a key interface badly implemented.

    Its just so tedious checking each civ one by one and going back to the start for the best deal every single turn. I want an interface showing me whats on offer and what is offered for my stuff by all civs all on one screen. And I want it soon.
     
  14. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    I was just looking at SMAC. It had the "commlink", which quickly brought up factions. I guess a nice diplo menu that's similar would be nice.
     
  15. Ranos

    Ranos Chieftain

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    Corruption needs to stay and that corruption affecting prodution is called waste. We still have both today in the real world. There should be both at the beginning of the game and courthouses should fix some of it, but then later in the game, techs should reduce it more. Techs that help with waste would be Engineering, Motorized Transportation, Computers and Robotics. Techs that would help with corruption would be Printing Press, Nationalism, Radio and Computers.

    Pollution also needs to stay. It isn't hard to clean up or keep track of at all. By the time pollution starts to show up, I have most of my terrain improved and my workers are automated using Shift-A. They wion't mess with my improvements but when that pesky pollution shows up, they are on it immediately, without me having to worry about them missing some.

    As for MPP being replaced by NAP, thats what an ROP is already. ROP means you don't attack that civs units that venture into your territory and they won't attack yours. NAP is the same exact thing. What MPP should be changed to is Alliance. It was nice being able to help defend your ally's troops and cities by puting your units into the same squre as theirs. Yuo should, however, have the option to not declare war on your mutual enemy. It would of course hurt relationships but you should have the option to back out. Italy did that in WWI. They were allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary and actually joined the other side.

    Changes I would like to see would be:

    1. Birng back the Alliance, as I said above.
    2. Change the way units work. Instead of making a unit and it goes out on its own, you have to form it into a group. By that I mean, you make one unit. You can immeiately form that unit into a squad or you can wait until you have a second unit and form them into a platoon. Then when battles occur, instead of it being my one dinky little Knight attacking your one dinky little Pikeman, its my army made up with Pikeman, Longbowmen and Knights attacking your defending army made up of the same units. Then you get to see an animation of the two armies advancing on eachother if it is out in the open, or one army advancing on the city and the other army defending. Now I'm probably just dreaming and most civ fans will hate this idea but it was still fun to tell it.
    3. Make it so you have to leave jungles and forests on the map. Yoiu can still clear some, but if you clear too many, global warming occurs.
    4. Trades being broken and its not your fault, but you get the blame.
    5. Put in an option to request a civ to end its war with another civ, like in SMAC.
    6. Improve naval warfare.

    There are probably some more changes I would like to see but I can't think of them right now.
     
  16. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

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    An additional thing about the diplo screen: the interface for more than 7 civs is ridiculous. It can be very confusing to try to see who is at war with whom, alliances etc.
     
  17. bru

    bru Chieftain

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    I agree that to eliminate corruption and pollution from the game would narrow the scope of the game. It would be great to see more effective methods of controlling rather than diminishing or eliminating!

    I also feel that the marine side of the game should be revamped. As it stands now I try to avoid that aspect of the game because IMO it does not work very well.
     
  18. Longasc

    Longasc Chieftain

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    I have a suggestion for the Diplo Screen: A small leaderhead only, and the whole screen would be a Matrix:

    X A B C D E
    A X 1 2 3 4
    B 1 X 2 3 4
    C 1 2 X 3 4
    D 1 2 3 X 4
    E 1 2 3 4 X


    The numbers are simple placeholders here, for showing either WAR/PEACE Treaties with that certain nation.

    All 16 civs would fit easily on this screen and it would offer more information and be less cluttered.
     
  19. Dogmeat

    Dogmeat Lupine humanoid

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    Just the regular diplo screen is ok IMHO. It just needs 16 civ slots instead of 8.
     
  20. joycem10

    joycem10 Chieftain

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    Ranos -

    You've never been attacked during an ROP? Try this:

    Negotiate a ROP with an aggressive civ and leave a city undefended with an AI unit next to it. See what happanes

    AIs can and will attack you while a ROP is in place. A NAP is a must add for the next iteration of Civ.
     

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