Civ strengths and weaknesses

[adhiraj.bose]

This thread is for discussing the various strengths or weaknesses of particular civs to help strategizing for different victory conditions.

Please share your thoughts, ideas and gameplay experiences for the civs of DOC.

 

[citis]

Egyptians:
Strengths: The civics, it saves from many techs and can build large cities without religion.
Weaks: No iron, exposed to African natives

Chinese:
Strengths: the UP, it can make them a tech monster if let unchecked
weaks: unconvetional early gameplay

Babylonians:
Strengths: Early game overpowered (more techs, archers causing barrage can be the only unit on your army until Medieval ages)
Weaks: Flips, hords and armies (Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Seljucs, Mongols, Ottomans)

Greece:
Strengths: the UP
Weaks: too much unhapiness (no religion, no dynasticism for a long time, drama is an expensive tech)

India:
Strengths: rich vast land
weaks: war elephants cost a lot and are available unhistorically late

Cathraginians:
Strengths: the UP (merchenaries)
weaks: The necessity to keep Sur (it is the only city inside core area) and all the core area flips to Arabs

Persia:
Strengths: the immortal, powerful early unit
weaks: poor economy, if let unchecked you will be bankrupt

Rome:
Strengths: the legion
weaks: Byzantine spawn, euros' spawns

Tamils:
Strenghts: rich land
weaks: 1sr UHC is a matter of luck

Ethiopia:
Strengths: the UP (sovereignity)
weaks:

Korea:
strengths: rich and defending mainland
weaks:

Mayas:
strengths: control the Panama strait
weaks: isolated gameplay, the UP expires

Byzantium:
Strength: comercious land, developed Constaninoples
Weaks: Flips and hords (Arabs, Seljuks, Mongols and Ottomans)

Japan:
Strengths: the UP, good defencive units
Weaks: improductive mainland, isolated

Norway:
Strengths: the 1st (modern) euro to spawn
weaks:

Arabia:
strengths: the UP, combined with Spiral Minaret of Sankore's univercity makes its best
weaks: the seljuks hords

Tibet:
strengths: the UU, can travel in jungles and rival borders
weaks: poor mainland

Khmer:
strengths:
weaks: the chinese can beat you easily, Thai spawn if let unchecked

Indonesia:
strengths: large area
weaks: the Dutch trading company, improductive land

Moors:
strengths:
weaks: the spanish will be more powerfull than you

Spain:
strengths:
weaks: the 3rd goal may be impossible if all euros convert to Protestantism

France:
strengths: the UP (friendlier AIs)
weaks: you have only 20 turns to defeat Prussians

English:
strengths: the UP (maintainance cost), in fact it is overpowered
weaks: the American spawn

Holy Rome:
strengths: productive land
weaks: the Prussian spawn (it gets the most productive cities)

Russia:
strengths: the UP (it stucks the AI stacks )
weaks: backyard civ for the most time

Mali:
strengths:
weaks: exposed to african natives, the 3rd goal requests a lot of money (backyard or win? you can't have both), improductive land

Poland:
strengths: the UP (historical tiles give you Kiev and Ukraine's rich and productive tiles)
weaks:

Portugal:
strengths: the trading company (especially if you are the AI), the UB (commercious coast) if built
weaks: fierce Spain

Inca:
strengths: the ability to control the whole south America
weaks: the spawn of Colombians and Argentines will take from you the most productive cities

Italy:
strengths: the starting army, it is really strong
weaks:

Mongolia:
strengths: productive land
weaks: the 3rd goal is really difficult

Azteks:
strengths: the ability to control North America early
weaks: defend against conquerors

Mughals:
strengths: rich and large land, easy defence (only two tile segments to defend)
weaks: the 3rd goal requires not to tech too much

Turkey:
stengths: the UP (ability to control conquered cities' borders immediately, no unhapiness)
weaks:

Thailand:
strengths: it begins really advanced
weaks: the chinese if they are the tech leader

Congo:
strengths: the natural defence of jungles and marches
weaks: too backyard civ

Netherlands:
strengths: new cities have many buildings pre-built, the trading company gives a good army
weaks: only one city in Europe, which should not be defenceless

Prussia:
strengths: the UP (advanced army)
weaks:

America:
strengths: rich land, vast historical area, advanced at start
weaks: they really don't have any

 

[adhiraj.bose]

I'd like to point out some of the weaknesses I think :

1) America :

weakness : Surrounded by more powerful or just as powerful European nations. Vulnerable at start. If AI Britain or Spain or France is powerful, Goal 1 (or was it #2?) becomes impossible (Monroe doctrine).

2) Turkey :

weakness : Again, surrounded by well entrenched civs. A powerful Egypt happens at times making the conquest goals difficult. Mughals beat you at artistic wonders. In none of my games so far have I been able to build all the Ottoman wonders, because either the Topkaki palace or the Blue mosque would be built somewhere else.

3) Mughals :

weakness : Biggest weakness , Europeans ! it's really difficult to get rifling to defend against those Europeans easily if you're busy culturing.

4) Italy :

weakness : Starting army isn't strong enough. Other Europeans would start off stronger than you and smash you if you're not careful.

5) Vikings / Norway :

weakness : Not exactly the most productive land compared to other Euros.

6) Korea :

weakness : Faster teching China will beat you in the UHV if not careful. Barbarians are an annoyance and a hostile China will steam roller you if you don't build militarily. + small starting area

7) Ethiopia :

weakness : Bad start off + African hordes of impis. Can be beat up at vulnerable start.

Not that these weaknesses can't be overcome though.

 

[Wondering Kid]

I'd actually say...
Inca:
strengths: Their UP turns "useless" terrain into productive land. The UU is somewhat cheap and can be used effectively against barbarian/native units; and as cannon-fodder against Conquistadors.
weaks: Cannot expand through all of South America lest they wish to be spotted early on by a foreign power. Conquistadors might overrun them, or at very least hinder grown badly. Until the Euros settle a city, acquiring gold for the UHV is more complicated that it could be.

For UHV purposes, I wouldn't count the spawn of Colombia and Argentina. However, later on, should a player wish to continue playing; this will effectively ruin Potential Growth for the rest of the game.

 

[merijn_v1]

I would like to add the Dutch UB to there strength. IMO, it's one of the (if not THE) best UB of all civs.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

The Dutch UB makes Ceylon and Indonesian islands much much better !

 

[Leoreth]

You really don't have to research Rifling to beat the Europeans, or build up a huge military. Focus on Siege Elephants, surrender your first city, then crush their army.

 

[Jusos2108]

Yeah, if AI manages to surprise you, so that you are garanteed to lose city (remember AI likes to bombard defences first) it is better to withdraw your troops than to lose them, then bring siege and retake the city. This works especially well if AI has a lot of siege units.

 

[Barbuesque]

I would like to add the Dutch UB to there strength. IMO, it's one of the (if not THE) best UB of all civs.

Isn't it completely outside the scope of their UHVs though?

 

[merijn_v1]

Does that matter?

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Does that matter?

In my opinion, we shouldn't be stuck with the UHV when evaluating civilizations.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

acquiring gold for the UHV is more complicated that it could be.

What revision are you playing? The amass gold/silver/gems goal was revised to controlling 60% of South America before even the official release of 1.11

 

[citis]

What revision are you playing? The amass gold/silver/gems goal was revised to controlling 60% of South America before even the official release of 1.11

In the official release v1.11 the 2nd goal is 2500 and the 3rd is the 60% of South America.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

In the official release v1.11 the 2nd goal is 2500 and the 3rd is the 60% of South America.

Ah, I misread. I thought he was referring to the gold resource, as the 3rd UHV was to claim a large number of gold/silver/gems resources. Probably because I've never seen amassing gold as the Inca complicated or difficult.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Strongest to weakest of the Latin American civs :

1) Brazil : Biggest strength is large stability area, rich land, strong start and domination of the South West Atlantic coastline. Worst weakness is, their UU is insignificant, especially if you're going for a UHV. You won't be chopping too many jungles that way, and even if you did, they're finite.

2) Colombia : Strong start, good UU. Worst weakness is, Horrible capital city. Gets cooped up in the North.

3) Mexico : Better land than the Colombians, but dominated completely by the Americans.

4) Argentina : Would need a lot of effort to break out of Brazil's shadow. But doable with a UU like the one it has. But both starting wise and UHV wise, it's a tad inferior to the others. AI argentina ends up getting dominated by Brazil or Colombia in most of my games. If not them, then some foreign power.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

How good if at all are the Kaizen plants ? What's the major advantage of a coal plant that gives 10% plus power in addition to the normal benefits of a coal plant. I'm playing Japan on the 1700 AD scenario, it's tough to match the tech race because you start off so backward .

 

[Leoreth]

The Kaizen plant has been buffed with a free engineer and an additional scientist slot in the SVN.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

yeah but I'm still playing vanilla 1.11 . My laptop doesn't have a net connection on which I play so I can't do the SVN. So what advantage does that old Kaizen plant have ? I feel it's a really weak ub and doesn't really represent modern era Japan as a powerhouse.

 

[baseballpie]

Well, isn't that why it was changed? Because both of those things applied?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, that's why I mentioned the SVN status, so you know that the problem has already been addressed.