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Civ VI ...Huge disappointment

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Manol0, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I still love this game because there's so much fun stuff to do compared to Civ5 (especially civ5 vanilla). Moving stuff outside the cities was a great move (although it can be annoying on smaller maps with lots of water).

    But I got hit by a nasty bug that turned me off on the game for now. First time it happened. an "ally" somehow declared war on me in a joint war with another civ. I think the alliance/friendship ended that turn he did the joint war, but I was never officially at war (according to the icons at the top right), but he was attacking me all over the place. I was even able to declare friendship again with him (while at war) and form an alliance, yet he continued attacking my units. Sloppy game design. I hope this bug is fixed. It's a game breaker for me. I'm not sure I can ever end that war, so I abandoned the game.
     
  2. Manol0

    Manol0 Chieftain

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    I think this issue frustrates every historical strategy gamer. Think what if WW2 was conducted under Civ VI terms...Hitler could spam with tanks and planes with his just one copy of oil in Ploesti(Romania)...so he wouldnt be coerced to fight in Stalingrad or North Africa...Now imagine how the human civilization would be if he had won....All the human values and rights would be disappeared by today. So warfare is an important aspect in the civilization development...
    I realise that Civilization generally is not a war game ... but Civilization V was perfect as a wargame too!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  3. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Emperor

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    It's not that those who criticize Civ6 are automatically wrong. It's just that most of the criticisms of Civ6 coming from these forums are anything but constructive.
    Yes, I love Civ6, and yes I don't mind if people complain about the AI, or the UI or the graphics. I don't mind if they would prefer Civ4 or Civ 5 over Civ6. But what infuriates me is that people don't recognize the good points of the game, and focus more on the negative as if the entire overall quality of the game hinges on those factors which they complain about. Or at leat have the patience to wait for the game to be improved over time like what happened to Civ5. It's throwing the baby with the bathwater, and frankly I've seen a lot of babies being killed in some threads that have the most non-constructive criticisms about the game.

    The problem is not that the standards are lowered. The standards are still there. It's just that the arguments are just too loud, impatient and inconsiderate.
     
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  4. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    That sounds about right. The bad points are the game were so bad that I couldn't stand to play the game anymore, despite the fact I still had the desire to play.

    I didn't have to do that with Civ 2. Or Civ 3. Or Civ 4.

    And I didn't do that with Civ 5 either; why would I do something crazy like buy an expansion to a game I don't like?

    Doesn't look like it to me.
     
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  5. Usama84

    Usama84 Chieftain

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    As a life long fan myself, I've been playing since civ2. I used to play this game all night until the sun came up. Just one more turn, as they say. I always felt that Civ3 and Civ4 were improvements to the game, though I was always one version behind because of the demanding graphics. Let's face it Civ5 and Civ6 are downgrades, in regards to the depth and strategy of the game. Civ5 had amazing graphics, the only thing i liked about it. And what do they do? They even took that away and left us with clash of clans.
     
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  6. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    I very much agree that Civ V is a downgrade over Civ IV, but Civ VI? Not so much. It indeed looks much more like V than like IV because hexes and 1 upt, but it's in about every way an improvement over civ V. To quote myself from page 1:

    "So you don't consider the district system, dual tech trees, unique great people, unique city states, amenities/happiness system, movement rules, AI being able to walk and shoot in one turn, variable policies, traders building roads, the builder system instead of workers, the agenda system (even if annoying, at least you know why someone hates you) and the unique-ness of every civ better than Civ V? Not even one of them?"
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Civ VI still has a long way to go and the dissenters are comparing a child with an adult.

    Equally with anything new that comes along there is a natural distaste, I did dislike the COC ish graphics and many other things, some things I still dislike. However I bought the damn thing so I rolled up my sleeves and played it because I know that you do get used to many things and now the graphics do not annoy me anymore. Most things that still annoy me I know are fixable but the whole concept of warmonger winning is just bad IMO. However I battle on playing my own games to my own victory conditions which Works for me.

    I am enjoying growing with this child and I think a lot of the kickback is petulance that Firaxis has compromised strategy with popularity which I will not disagree with. I just hope this child does not grow into a psychopath.

    .... the cartoonish leaders still make me want to smash the screen sometimes.
     
  8. Quoth the Raven

    Quoth the Raven Warlord

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    To everyone who looks down on Civ V, play it with the Vox Populi mod. It almost brings Civ V up to the level of Civ IV greatness. The modded AI is far superior to what I have seen of the Civ VI AI.
     
  9. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    Civ 6 will never get where it needs to be. Civ 5 is far better.
     
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  10. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

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    The way I see it, many of the people who are excessively negative are in a bind.

    1. Did you buy the game?
    I'm going to assume the answer to this question is 'yes' for most of you, because you're on an enthusiast's forum and have fairly detailed complaints.

    If the answer to 1 is yes,

    2. Did you preorder the game?
    If the answer to 2 is yes, then you have nothing to complain about, because you put money down on the game before knowing how good it was. This encourages bad releases, because the developers already have their money. I.E. if you pre-ordered, then you encouraged a bad business model that adversely affects the quality of games.

    3. Did you buy the game after release?
    If the answer to 1 is yes, but 2 is no, then the answer to number 3 must be yes, unless your aging grandma got it for you as a Christmas present or something. If you bought the game after release, then you signed off on the game as it was.

    I'm not terribly offended by the state of the game, and it seemed like a fun way to spend my time, so I went with option 3. If you were offended by the state of the game, then you had every opportunity to check up on that before buying.
     
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  11. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    I agree I should have waited. On a different topic are the mod tools out yet? Does anyone know? Thanks.
     
  12. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    I'm surprised to see so many of you defend Civ VI, I guess we are now at the stage where Civ6 haters have left and only enthusiasts are still around. I'm around because I remember Civ5 getting better patches after patches and with expansions, so I read the forums to see if ever something similar happens. Several of you have a point I can understand but I greatly differ.

    I'm sorry but every one of these points you mentioned is why Civ6 is an inferior to its predecessor. The district system is a trade-off system that forces you to specialize in one thing and abandon the others. You want to prioritize some districts, in other words, you'll end up building the same districts in many cities and abandoning the same ones every time. Dual tech trees can be overwhelming to casual players and newbies. (although I, for myself, like the addition) Unique great people are not great anymore as some have stronger bonuses than others and I don't expect a few Amenities bonuses from engineers to begin with. I'd rather take the tech boost/free wonder system of Civ5. Amenities/Happiness system is debatable, but again, micromanaging it for every city is overwhelming for casuals and noobs. The big smiley face on top of the interface you get when you improve a resource is a clear and simple indicator. Movement rules makes everything play in slow motion. To make maps come alive 1UPT is enough. AI is still horrible when it comes to fighting wars. The government system of Civ6 makes even less sense than the Social Policy system in Civ5 (in my opinion, discussion for another day). Not being able to build roads before Military Engineers can be inconvenient. Builder system is still just as nonsensical as the Worker system. Diplomacy is a mess, everybody hates you even if you're playing peaceful and declare war on you with no reason to raise the white flag 10 turns later. Agenda system, again, debatable, and even you agree that it is very annoying. About civs being more unique, I'd rather stare at the beautiful leader screens of Civ5 rather than listening to generic Ancient/Atomic era songs (that sound similar to literally every civ...)
     
  13. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    Making gamers stuck at one particular point at a game to make them explore might be a great game mechanic, my favorite game of all time (Super Mario Galaxy) takes full advantage of it. On the other hand, hiding game mechanics is as nasty as invisible walls!

    Before I could figure out how culture victory even works I left the game in frustration. Does anybody have a full grasp of it by now? Can anybody link me to a post that can explain it exhaustively?
     
  14. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    Not always. New things are often great.

    Even if we limit ourselves specifically to the Civ series, I enjoyed Civ 3 and Civ 4 on day 1.

    I can respect your opinion, I suppose, but this is an experience I would expect from an indy game in the alpha/beta stage where its core features and interfaces are still in active development with community interaction, and at little or no monetary cost to myself.

    When I pay full price for a finished product from a major company, I expect something that only needs tweaks, bugfixes, and maybe a bit of polish.

    I will disagree with it. If Firaxis no longer wants to publish Civ games for people like me, I want to make sure this fact is made loud and clear to people like me.

    But that said, I don't think they compromised strategy with popularity -- they just completely dropped the ball on AI and UI design. And it looks like they have no plans to pick up the ball on UI design. I'm not sure about the AI design ball; I only have a vague impression that the improvements there are mostly by accident.
     
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  15. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    Firaxis taught me to never ever pre-order a game again. After Beyond Earth and Civilization 6 pre-order I'll never encourage a bad business model again.
     
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  16. ashendashin

    ashendashin King

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    What are you trying to push here? This forum includes players from all the civ titles. With Civ 6 being the most recent, there's going to be those from previous games coming on here to complain and compare, regardless of money spent.

    To put it simply, Civilization is a popular series that fills a spot few games do, and the latest installment fell short in many peoples eyes, subsequently leading to threads like this. Why exactly wouldn't they complain about a game that was supposed to continue scratching that itch and fell short? It's a series, not some new title with an inexperienced company behind it. Whether or not people are 'offended' by the game is irrelevant. It isn't worth the time to many and they tell you why. If you enjoy the game so much and don't care for the negativity, then simply continue playing the game and have your fun. I don't see why anyone should try to shut down criticism towards a game that's objectively inferior to previous titles made by the same company.
     
  17. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    There are mod tools out, but afaik the modders are still waiting for more.

    One of the reasons I'm defending VI is because I've seen it greatly improve with patches so far, so there's that part already.

    District system: The whole idea behind the system is forcing you to specialize in some things and abandon others, and to be fair, there's only 3 districts (maybe 4 because Theater Squares need so much work in order to grant any real culture that you're already aiming for a culture victory if you really work on them) that are conditional or bad, and those are the Holy Site, Aquaduct and Spaceport. Holy Site and Spaceport are very much about one victory only, whereas Aquaduct is just not worth it. For the rest, I build all districts in all games, and while I indeed build more Commercial Hubs than I build Entertainment Districts, that doesn't mean I'm abandoning Entertainment Districts.
    Dual tech trees: Maybe it can be overwhelming, I don't know. But I don't see how everything should be as low a threshold as possible. Sometimes, you make something more complicated than the bare minimum because it simply makes for a better game. And I don't believe it's too difficult for new people to understand.
    Unique great people need some balancing, sure, but it adds a lot of flavour compared to every great person being the same.
    Amenities/happiness: But you don't have to micromanage the cities. That's done automatically. All you, as player, need to do, is add a source of amenities if there's an unhappy city. And excluding giant metropolises it doesn't even matter where you add the source of amenities, as the game just pushes luxery resources around. On top of that, I was mainly referring to unhappiness being handled per city, meaning you no longer have the instant -75% growth when you're unhappy, as well as getting a boost in production and everything when you're happy, which means that there's actually a benefit to getting more happiness, while Civ V was "you get nothing for being happy but if you're ever unhappy all your people now refuse to reproduce".
    Movement rules are debatable; I really prefer this, but I can see people preferring the Civ V ones. But there's a reason I ended my post with "not even one of them?"
    You can't deny that the AI has improved in it's use in archers. It may still be horrible at fighting wars, but that wasn't my point. My point was that it's use of archers had improved. Mind you, I was replying to someone who said that VI was in each and every way worse than V.
    How many roads were built before the medieval era other than through traders? Only the Roman roads (built by Legions... check) and, from what I've heard, the Persian roads (who have the bonus that their roads are a level higher than other roads in the same era). Maybe it's inconvenient, but it's accurate and it adds a great flavor.
    Propose something better than builders/workers.
    You haven't tried diplomacy. To be fair I haven't tried it a lot either, though I still know how to get as many people to like me as to dislike me, but if you want to know what's possible with diplomacy, just ask the forumer Victoria. She's had things like 6 other civs in the game, alliance with 5 of them.
    For the agenda system, I was referring to V's system with a lot of invisible modifiers and leaders lying about how they thought of you. There, you had no idea wheter someone liked you or not, even if there was a Friendly/Neutral/Unfriendly, wheras here, you can see why they like or dislike you (assuming you have at least one of delegation/embassy, trade route and printing press) as well as their sore points (for the hidden agenda, you can often deduce it from what they say to you about it, otherwise you simply need two of the above), so you can at the very least take steps to avoid it.
    And I was talking about the gameplay of civs being more unique. Not their leader screens and music.

    This should be exhaustive enough. Again by Victoria.

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/culture-victory-guide.25713/
     
  18. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

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    I'm not trying to do that, I've been quite critical of Civ 6 myself, as the massive list of desired changes thread that I'm writing demonstrates. What I'm saying is that if we want to avoid this stuff if the future, pre-ordering is not the way to go. People in thread have complained about how the market is now able to support sub-par products, but the market supports sub-par products because people buy them. My point is that the people who make those points are almost invariably contributing to the problem just as much as the game's defenders.
     
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  19. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    Because you're talking rubbish. You say it's objectively inferior (like, WHAT???), wheras, for me, this is already the best title they've ever released. Stop being such a !@#$# and at least omit objectively from your post.

    ...
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sure, I have written a culture guide at the top of the tips and tricks forum which explains it all in great detail. Any questions feel free to ask or pm me
     

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