Civ VI Lead Left Firaxis - Final Nail In The Coffin?

[LastSword]

Nah. I mean it's an ongoing evolving series. You could say that about any of the releases.

So nah, but yes? Okay.

 

[UWHabs]

And coincidentally Barbarian Clans was also the only really well-designed mode. But yes, the purpose of the patch was clearly to extort money out of fill in the remaining fan favorites, which is why I think it was hilarious that people thought we'd be getting anything but the staples and a few popular fan requests like Vietnam and Gran Colombia.

Yeah, I kind of see the NFP as a sort of experimental way to handle things. Basically, they had a few civs that they still wanted to release, so instead of just selling them straight up for 5 bucks apiece, they tagged in these experimental and optional game featurettes and could increase the price by a couple bucks. And the fact that it seems a good number of people on here bought the pack probably means it wasn't a failure at all. Yes, it could have been more, or could have been better overall, but there were some neat parts of it that they will presumably learn from going into development on 7.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah, I kind of see the NFP as a sort of experimental way to handle things. Basically, they had a few civs that they still wanted to release, so instead of just selling them straight up for 5 bucks apiece, they tagged in these experimental and optional game featurettes and could increase the price by a couple bucks. And the fact that it seems a good number of people on here bought the pack probably means it wasn't a failure at all. Yes, it could have been more, or could have been better overall, but there were some neat parts of it that they will presumably learn from going into development on 7.

If they didn't learn that modular features was a horrible idea, Civ7 will be a pass from me, I'm afraid.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

If they didn't learn that modular features was a horrible idea, Civ7 will be a pass from me, I'm afraid.

The biggest thing that the "Civ Team" has to learn is that the gaming community has a lot of options other than automatically buying the next Civ game. For myself, I have tried to play Civ VI a few times in the past six months, and I haven't lasted more than 40 turns before abandoning the game - compared to games like Humankind, Anno 1800, Old World, Port Royale IV, the game looks absolutely mediocre graphically, the AI characters are comparatively bland and cartoonish, and the overall gameplay is, for me at least, played out.
Now, of course, I've played an order of magnitude (4000 +) hours of Civ VI compared to all those other games, which has a lot to do with it. But I'll be blunt: if the next Civ offering doesn't intrigue me at least as much as those games do now, I won't bother with it, and that means Civ has a lot of catching up to do in graphics, game mechanics, narrative story telling, character development (even within a historical context), AI capability, etc.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If they didn't learn that modular features was a horrible idea, Civ7 will be a pass from me, I'm afraid.

I don't think modular features are inheritably a bad thing. For example the Tech Shuffle game mode is one thing that I think should be a modular thing if they were to bring it back, considering it doesn't need to interact with other systems but also be optional for those that don't want to play with it.
I'd also wouldn't mind if the Jersey system was a toggleable option, but that's a whole different story.

 

[Zenstrive]

Also I think CIV VI was designed to be able to be ported to mobile from the start.

 

[Zaarin]

I don't think modular features are inheritably a bad thing. For example the Tech Shuffle game mode is one thing that I think should be a modular thing if they were to bring it back, considering it doesn't need to interact with other systems but also be optional for those that don't want to play with it.
I'd also wouldn't mind if the Jersey system was a toggleable option, but that's a whole different story.

Some features can be modular--but core features absolutely should not be.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I fail to see how SS fixed anything, just another layer of buffs.

It brings governors into play earlier.
For some civs like Mapuche and Korea this is essential.

I forgot: Apocalypse mode fixes the climate system by introducing forest fires. (I mean that was just a huge oversight of the original release).

@Zaarin re: Civ V at launch. How many years ago was that? I really do not recall. (I may have been super busy at work and not really had time to play at launch).

 

[Linklite]

NFP was scraping the bottom of the design barrel, and the devs were very transparent that the "modes" were just ideas the team had kicked around but hadn't made the cut. NFP is like buying pottery seconds: you don't buy seconds and complain that it's dented, chipped, or discolored.

The thing that galls me is that, on the Switch at least, they charged the same price as they were for the bundle of R&F and GE together. You could get two finished biases for the same price as a frankenstein piece cobbled together from offcuts. I don't mind paying a premium for new content, but I expected it it be at least as good as R&F or GS individually.

 

[MrRadar]

I forgot: Apocalypse mode fixes the climate system by introducing forest fires.

It also completely wrecked the climate system: when deforestation starts, it now starts right from the maximum value 50% Def factor, which then goes down with time, instead of starting at 10% and going up to 50%. Everyone’s carbon footprint is increased by that value overnight - the effect is retroactive. As a result the world may sink over the next few turns and AI left to complete Flood Barriers which now may take dozens of turns to complete.
And deforestation is wrecked for the base game only as well, that is, this bug is present when no modes are on. It’s been what - well over a year now like this, nobody cares. Better players will finish the game before this thing even starts, others are probably more interested in GDR stomp and such to pay much attention to this. What’s the point then to have such a system in the game at all?

 

[kaspergm]

And coincidentally Barbarian Clans was also the only really well-designed mode.

I don't even agree that BC was a well-designed mode. Yes, the core idea was good, but just a few test play-throughs should have made it evident that numbers were completely off, particularly getting the entire arctic world plastered with city states was a huge let-down for me with this mode. So again, we ended up with something based on a idea with merit, but with implementation so superficial it ended up breaking the game (balance).

 

[blackbutterfly]

And deforestation is wrecked for the base game only as well, that is, this bug is present when no modes are on. It’s been what - well over a year now like this, nobody cares.

This is what I mean when I say Civ VI has been left by Firaxis+2K in such a bugged state. (Even some simple ones like the text "Build two bombards" tech boost).

For all the criticisms of Jon Shafer and Civ V, it was left in a decent state. Its player numbers are testament to that:
Civ V - 15,800 Avg. players Sid Meier's Civilization V - Steam Charts
Civ VI - 31,600 Avg. players Sid Meier's Civilization VI - Steam Charts

Yeah, by the end of it, 5 was fine. But at launch it was pretty much a gongshow that I remember only getting a few games in before I had to put it aside for a few months for things to get patched up.

That was 11 yrs ago.
I'm sure we collectively have some selective memory.
I think our tolerance for bugs in Civ has increased considerably. Remember Civ VI at launch? Civs spawing next to each other. (Start locations bug, etc.) I mean, seriously?!

I'm certain I must have played some Civ V during the holidays in 2010, but I have no recollection of it being buggy, at all. I remember thinking how revolutionary it was, in comparison to Civ IV.

 

[Ordnael]

There's a coffin situation on Firaxis or the CIV series going on?

 

[blackbutterfly]

There's a coffin situation on Firaxis or the CIV series going on?

I think I meant "final nail in the coffin of Civ VI" but that was too long for a title. I'm gonna leave it cos it is provocative and it generated some discussion in this cob webby forum

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It brings governors into play earlier.
For some civs like Mapuche and Korea this is essential.

I wouldn't necessarily say that's fixing it. Obtaining Pingala with the Curator promotion by the Medieval Era for Korea, or anyone, is insane.

I forgot: Apocalypse mode fixes the climate system by introducing forest fires. (I mean that was just a huge oversight of the original release).

That's true, however forest fires were introduced by buying the whole pack, not just in Apocalypse mode.

 

[blackbutterfly]

That's true, however forest fires were introduced by buying the whole pack, not just in Apocalypse mode.

I'm pretty sure forest fires were introduced with the DLC with Apocalypse mode.
See -> Forest Fire (Civ6) | Civilization Wiki | Fandom

Forest fires are IMO such a crucial climatic event that it was a big oversight of the Climate system when it was introduced in GS.
So for me Apocalypse mode fixed GS's Climate system.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

If they didn't learn that modular features was a horrible idea

Think you will find you are in a very small minority there. I'll be astonished if we don't have something similar in Civ VII.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm pretty sure forest fires were introduced with the DLC with Apocalypse mode.
See -> Forest Fire (Civ6) | Civilization Wiki | Fandom

Forest fires are IMO such a crucial climatic event that it was a big oversight of the Climate system when it was introduced in GS.
So for me Apocalypse mode fixed GS's Climate system.

Yes I meant Forest Fires were part of the Maya and Gran Colombia DLC pack.
However you can have forest fires without the Apocalypse game mode enabled. I've never played the game mode but have seen plenty of forest fires in the game.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Some features can be modular--but core features absolutely should not be.

I agree for the most part . . . but two of the modes (barbarians and corporations), while far from "done" here, I'm hoping were test studies for inclusion in the next civ. To your point they would have both worked better if just added to the game instead of being made as they were.

 

[UWHabs]

Think you will find you are in a very small minority there. I'll be astonished if we don't have something similar in Civ VII.

Yeah, I think the modular game modes are actually a great idea overall, I just wish that they were a little more connected to the rest of the game. Like it would be nice to have a eureka for joining a secret society if you have that game mode active, or even integrating in the features from the non-optional parts of the game modes, like having policy cards to increase production towards preserves, or maybe a card that gives an amenity for each industry or something like that.