CIV VI Realism and House rules

[chrisgatt7]

I want to start out by saying how much I love CIV VI. Its an amazing game and truly in my opinion the best Civilization game. Though I wish we had the amount of Mods Civilization V does. That being said I love realism, so I have created some basic house rules from the Industrial age onward to ensure I’m challenged, and the game is as realistic as possible.

1. No Land Unit can heal outside its boarders without a Supply convoy. The supply convoys are basically useless, so this house rule ensues the use and adoption into your armed forces. What is a supply convoy actually? (A sustainment brigade has a joint capability that allows the Army to better manage the flow of logistics into the area of operations (AO) and provides support to other services for common logistics like fuel, common ammo, medical supplies, repair parts of wheeled vehicles, and so forth.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainment_Brigades_in_the_United_States_Army

2. All economic trades must be conducted with a neutral nation or better. I doubt the U.S and Iran are discussing whales and trading.

3. No Military Unit can be purchased with gold. In reality every single military unit needs production time. Even infantry units … Disagree leave a comment please ... I would love feedback and ideas.

4. No military unit can be upgraded/purchased with gold. You might be thinking WTH. Hear me out. More than 15,000 tanks in the M60 series were built before production ended in 1987. The M60 was the US Army’s main battle tank until it was replaced by the M1 Abrams. A total of 3,273 M1 Abrams tanks were produced during 1979–1985 and first entered U.S. Army service in 1980. It took almost six years for the military to produce. It took the army 6 years to produce 21% of the replacement tank force. Do you think they were insta upgrading tanks? I think not.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Development


5. Promotions can be purchased. Yes, I use a MOD for this ha-ha. If you think what a Civilization promotion is. Its almost a small unit upgrade. Look at the heavy cavalry promotion tree. You have promotions like armor piercing and reactive armor. Hardly unit experience. Reactive armor for example is not something certain troops put on their vehicles. It was purchased and endorsed by the military. Why does my unit need combat experience for me to buy reactive armor to improve armored survivability? Still working out the cost of each promotion. Even the promotion im granted through XP I pay for and do not reward the unit unless they are friendly territory or with a Supply convoy.


6. Revamping the games Corps, and Armies. I know the game claims that if you combined units they form corps and armies, but I hate to break it to you it's BS. I posted a table break down as an example. I know the example is naval, but the principle still applies. I DO NOT allow the fusion of units to improve strength. Everything must be produced. Also, I take the levels as upgrades in my head. For example, a Main Battle Tank (MBT) level 1 base is a T-80, Level 2 T-90 and Level 3 T-14 Armata. The progression of combat strength and maintenance makes sense. I also left an example below. As far as the actual size of each it. Brigade level for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team



This is it for now … Have any other ideas leave a comment. Please comment and provide feedback … Dont forget to check out the images at the bottom !!

 

[iammaxhailme]

Interesting. Sort of related to #1, I always had a sort of headcanon that units should not be able to heal in neutral or enemy territory on desert or tundra... and half speed on plains and grass... and not at all on snow.

 

[chrisgatt7]

Interesting. Sort of related to #1, I always had a sort of headcanon that units should not be able to heal in neutral or enemy territory on desert or tundra... and half speed on plains and grass... and not at all on snow.

I agree with you for base game ... The game makes it way to easy to heal units during conflict. Another example is the healing following a promotion. Should the unit gain almost 75% of health back just because of a simple promotion ? I don't think so lol

 

[Victoria]

Should the unit gain almost 75%

50%?
A unit heal is not the same a Mario getting back 20%, Mario is a single being rather than a unit.
I always considered healing to be resupply and replenishment of lost troops and equipment. This also make more sense with faster healing in your own territory.
Also a turn is how long? So I am fine with it. I worry more about how pillaging crops brings a unit to full strength.

 

[chrisgatt7]

50%?
A unit heal is not the same a Mario getting back 20%, Mario is a single being rather than a unit.
I always considered healing to be resupply and replenishment of lost troops and equipment. This also make more sense with faster healing in your own territory.
Also a turn is how long? So I am fine with it. I worry more about how pillaging crops brings a unit to full strength.

I get the promotions being the resupply and replenishment of lost troops and equipment. But this shouldn't happen outside your boarders. How does your infantry get the resupply and replenishment of lost troops and equipment when they are hundrends if not thousands of miles away from your boarders and territory? Air Drop ? Supply lines must be open ...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

All the Civ games, and Civ VI specifically, have no explicit provision for 'supply' or 'logistics', so it is hidden beneath the 'Healing' of Units. As @Victoria commented, remember the Time Scale of the game: the 'healing' is taking place over a span of 1 to 40 years, which is more than enough time to replace losses, train new recruits, build new weapons and equipment and get them to the unit.
This sort of thing is possible in all Eras - in the Classical Era in game terms, Alexander the Great's army received new units and replacements from Macedon and Greece when it was in the area now known as Afghanistan, which by any measure was not 'friendly' or 'neutral' territory at the time!

And in reference to the OP, the Civ VI "Promotions" are actually a combination of Unit Experience in certain types of combat actions and technical advances like Barding and Reactive Armor. In other words, it is a 'catch-all' system that doesn't accurately reflect the effects of either Combat Experience or Technical Advances on combat doctrine and ability, but mixes them together at random.

As for the size of units, that's a sliding scale at best. I've posted elsewhere, there is no evidence for any standing unit in the Ancient Era larger than a 'Host' of 600 - 1000 men, which would be about the size of a single battalion in the Industrial Era and later. In addition, even units with the same nomenclature have been getting bigger: a Brigade of infantry or cavalry in the early Industrial Era was normally 2 regiments or 6 - 8 squadrons totaling about 1000 - 4000 men. A brigade in the current US Army is up to 10,000 men and a mass of mechanized equipment. In WWI, a Destroyer was a 1000 ton warship with 4 - 5 guns and some torpedo tubes. The latest class of US Navy "Destroyer" weighs 15,000 tons and carries 1 gun. Which means it is larger than a WWII Heavy Cruiser!
I suggest that a Unit represents a different size of unit in at least each Era, or it becomes ridiculous before you are half-way through the game. On the other hand, an archer with an ordinary self-bow can shoot from one side of a city of up to a million people to the other in all Eras, so the unit, distance, and time scales are all pure Fantasy.

 

[chrisgatt7]

All the Civ games, and Civ VI specifically, have no explicit provision for 'supply' or 'logistics', so it is hidden beneath the 'Healing' of Units. As @Victoria commented, remember the Time Scale of the game: the 'healing' is taking place over a span of 1 to 40 years, which is more than enough time to replace losses, train new recruits, build new weapons and equipment and get them to the unit.
This sort of thing is possible in all Eras - in the Classical Era in game terms, Alexander the Great's army received new units and replacements from Macedon and Greece when it was in the area now known as Afghanistan, which by any measure was not 'friendly' or 'neutral' territory at the time!

And in reference to the OP, the Civ VI "Promotions" are actually a combination of Unit Experience in certain types of combat actions and technical advances like Barding and Reactive Armor. In other words, it is a 'catch-all' system that doesn't accurately reflect the effects of either Combat Experience or Technical Advances on combat doctrine and ability, but mixes them together at random.

As for the size of units, that's a sliding scale at best. I've posted elsewhere, there is no evidence for any standing unit in the Ancient Era larger than a 'Host' of 600 - 1000 men, which would be about the size of a single battalion in the Industrial Era and later. In addition, even units with the same nomenclature have been getting bigger: a Brigade of infantry or cavalry in the early Industrial Era was normally 2 regiments or 6 - 8 squadrons totaling about 1000 - 4000 men. A brigade in the current US Army is up to 10,000 men and a mass of mechanized equipment. In WWI, a Destroyer was a 1000 ton warship with 4 - 5 guns and some torpedo tubes. The latest class of US Navy "Destroyer" weighs 15,000 tons and carries 1 gun. Which means it is larger than a WWII Heavy Cruiser!
I suggest that a Unit represents a different size of unit in at least each Era, or it becomes ridiculous before you are half-way through the game. On the other hand, an archer with an ordinary self-bow can shoot from one side of a city of up to a million people to the other in all Eras, so the unit, distance, and time scales are all pure Fantasy.

A brigade is 1000-4000 troops... I have always know there has been an up and down amount of unit formations based on era ... I’m simply speaking of atomic to information era units... is it safe to say that while in the ancient era one turn is 40-100 years how long is one turn in the information era ... sure as heck isn’t 40 years

 

[Troy Bruckner]

2. All economic trades must be conducted with a neutral nation or better. I doubt the U.S and Iran are discussing whales and trading.

The West traded with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The West traded with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

And Napoleon could not stop his 'allies' from trading with his enemy, Britain, while they were at war - to enforce his Continental Trade system he invaded Russia in 1812.
And, further back, Rome continuously traded with German tribes at the same time they were waging constant 'frontier wars' with them - even 'Barbarians' were a source of Trade Goods and a target for Trade Routes throughout history.
At the same time they were raiding into China, the Northern Barbarians from the Hsung-Nu to the Jurchen were also trading good cavalry horses to the Chinese for Chinese luxury goods like silks, tea and porcelain, a trade that seems to have remained unaffected for almost 1000 years by any level of warfare going on between the two parties as long as it didn't include sacking capitals . . .

 

[chrisgatt7]

The West traded with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

When I say yes trade I do not mean trade routes but government on government trading such as resources

 

[Chefofrats]

When I say yes trade I do not mean trade routes but government on government trading such as resources

There was no private foreign trade in the Soviet Union, it was all organized by the government.

 

[chrisgatt7]

There was no private foreign trade in the Soviet Union, it was all organized by the government.

True but not entirely

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprises_in_the_Soviet_Union

 

[Victoria]

There was no private foreign trade in the Soviet Union, it was all organized by the government.

I just saw a cool program on the effect the Beatles had on the Soviet Union... and that “trade” was certainly not government organised.

 

[chrisgatt7]

I just saw a cool program on the effect the Beatles had on the Soviet Union... and that “trade” was certainly not government organised.

Wow history lessons left and right ... good stuff people ... at the end of the day I love modern warfare ... I’m just trying to make the latter part of the game realistic

 

[chrisgatt7]

NEW******
Embarkation and DEBARKATION can only be conducted on a Harbor district tile. Add Naval infantry back into the game allowing for units to conduct amphibious landing. Not only will stratigic importance of harbors will become valuable but the access to a powerful navy. Also using the air lift mechanic. Thoughts ?

 

[bbbt]

Interesting. Sort of related to #1, I always had a sort of headcanon that units should not be able to heal in neutral or enemy territory on desert or tundra... and half speed on plains and grass... and not at all on snow.

I like it! It would be a boost to desert and tundra cities as well, making them harder to capture. Might make early barb hunting in those areas a bigger challenge though.

NEW******
Embarkation and DEBARKATION can only be conducted on a Harbor district tile. Add Naval infantry back into the game allowing for units to conduct amphibious landing. Not only will stratigic importance of harbors will become valuable but the access to a powerful navy. Also using the air lift mechanic. Thoughts ?

By this you mean that units can only embark/debark from a harbor, or on a tile with a naval unit? Sounds interesting, especially if they improved some of the unit management UI. Would probably slow down early exploration a bit, especially on water maps.

 

[chrisgatt7]

I like it! It would be a boost to desert and tundra cities as well, making them harder to capture. Might make early barb hunting in those areas a bigger challenge though.



By this you mean that units can only embark/debark from a harbor, or on a tile with a naval unit? Sounds interesting, especially if they improved some of the unit management UI. Would probably slow down early exploration a bit, especially on water maps.

No in early game it would work traditionally. It is the the late portion of the game in which it would act differently. The amount of equipment transported now it 20x more then early in history.

 

[Linklite]

So, are you saying that you can't have a Normandy type invasion? I kind of agree, but Normandy putsa but of a "but we've done it in the past..." kind of thought on it.

 

[chrisgatt7]

So, are you saying that you can't have a Normandy type invasion? I kind of agree, but Normandy putsa but of a "but we've done it in the past..." kind of thought on it.

No, I'm saying a specialized Marine Unit will conduct the operation. Traditional military hardware must use a Dock. Their are exceptions such as Helicopters etc.. However most units must use a Doc to disembark.

 

[Vandlys]

NEW******
Embarkation and DEBARKATION can only be conducted on a Harbor district tile. Add Naval infantry back into the game allowing for units to conduct amphibious landing. Not only will stratigic importance of harbors will become valuable but the access to a powerful navy. Also using the air lift mechanic. Thoughts ?

First thought? You don't need to yell at me.

In general, I like these kind of mechanics also for the fact that other civs, like Maori or the Vikings, could then have bonuses like "are allowed to embark from non-cliff tiles".

Personally, what I would really like to see is some sort of sphere in which your units do not get damaged. People here spoke about healing outside your territory already, but I would like to see it reversed.

I imagine some sort of sphere of influence, not the same as your own territory, in which your units can operate without getting damaged. Beyond that, the further they go the quicker they get damaged. This would simulate the lack of information, lack of supply chains, dangers of new territory, etc.

This sphere would grow throughout the ages with various technologies, and thus would impact scouts and other units in the early stages of the game, leaving more exploration until later in the game. Personally, that's one of my major gripes. Because players explore the whole map by the medieval age (at the latest I'd say), there are no major decisions much longer after that.