Mac CIV VII is not a good game

frumpleraggins

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
11
So I've been playing civ since civ4 back in 2005 and civ 7, and civs ing general just keep getting worse. Beloved domination victory no longer exists, no more xcom units and giant death robots, forced civ switching and forced quest loops are lame. I only beat the game once as a science victory type because the other means of victory seemed too confusing. The music still seems decent but for some reason nothing beats civ4 for me followed by civ 5. Civ 6 unit movement and production really slows to a crawl. Also these independent peoples keep spamming units even after I stick units in their town and I can't raze them like a barbarian encampent from previous games. Will they fix these issues?
 
Some of the issues you’re having might be that the game doesn’t explain itself very well. E.g., once you enter an independent people encampment with a military unit you have a unit action option to disperse them (i.e., raze them). In return you get a load of a yield plus your commander (if nearby—not sure how near it needs to be) gets a load of XP.
And the quests are not forced—you can ignore them; they are more of a guide for how to advance on certain legacy pathways, if you want to do that.
 
Personally i hated the xcom side of the game, and the GDR. I still played over 4,000 hrs of Civ6, but after switching to Civ7 pre release i'll never go back to it. For me Civ7 is a much better game, i admit theres been some bugs but every game has them, but it gets better with every update.
 
Personally i hated the xcom side of the game, and the GDR. I still played over 4,000 hrs of Civ6, but after switching to Civ7 pre release i'll never go back to it. For me Civ7 is a much better game, i admit theres been some bugs but every game has them, but it gets better with every update.
GDR became part of the game already, they are here for 15 years, so I probably expect them in 4th age. XCOM is surely out of place, but well, it was one-time promotion.
 
I am playing Civ 7 more than any other game in the series right now due to its newness and it's monthly updates. Currently, it is the game in the franchise with the most potential. All other titles have reached whatever potential they had with Firaxis and now mods alone are their only way of tapping in to more potential. So Civ 7 holds an edge against the competition currently for those of us curious about the new direction of the series that each game held before it. If Civ 7 were to completely stop all development and updates I suppose by this Feb, the Civ titles I play most often would become:

1. Civ 4
2. Civ 7, Beyond Earth.
3. Civ 6, Civ 3, Colonization.
4. Civ 2 and CtP
5. Civ 1 & 5

Spoiler Updated List due to latest patch updates (1.2.5 +1.3.0) :

1. Civ 4
2. Civ 7, Beyond Earth.
3. Beyond Earth and Colonization
4. Civ 6, Civ 3, Colonization.
5. Civ 2 and CtP
6. Civ 1 & 5

Group 2 are both games I think would get occasional play from me but suffer from a lack of variety in gameplay. The gameplay 'scratches an itch" but is mostly a 1 trick pony with enough variation to make a game or two feel unique. Civ 7 offers some gameplay variety with uniques but gets bogged down by legacy paths and very predictable diplomacy. As the game goes on both of these become more pronounced and strict until the gameplay stops feeling dynamic at all. Modern uniques almost feel irrelevant. 1.2.5 has helped a little with variation but only a little. It still dulls out by modern. Beyond Earth gets fair playtime from me because of its sci-fi flavor. Similar to 7, the early game offers something in variety and pursuing affinities to customize your military and playstyle is fun. But as you start reaching the mid game your course is locked and diplomacy is predictable making the gameplay no longer feel engaging. The stakes get lowered, not raised. Both of these are great for their specific flavor of game they offer but 2 playthroughs easily make you see that the 3rd playthrough will follow a very similar path. Luckily, Civ 7 currently has a new build every month offering new features in your my next playthrough. 2 games is the most I can get in a month and I usually abandon my 2nd game to start fresh with the new build.

Group 3-5 are games I play to reminisce more than anything. They too either scratch an itch or I play them to curiously reinvestigate old mechanics. None of these get played very often. If I want to play Civ, Groups 1 and 2 appeal to me the most. Group 3 has a very small chance to tempt me due to some special mechanics I enjoy that are unique to them. All 3 of these games appeal are exclusively due to mods. Groups 4 and 5 just do not appeal much anymore at all beyond nostalgia. I do plan to one day try out the famous Vox Populi mod for Civ 5 but it does not intrigue me very much at all.

Group 1 - Obviously my preferred choice though it currently is taking a backseat to 7 because I have seen everything it has to offer - whereas with 7, this is not true. Civ 4 is going to be hard to topple because it feeds me the nostalgia but is also incredibly flexible due how versatile food and commerce both are in its system. I have a variety of mods that tweak the formula of historical strategy, as well as FfH2 to have a fantasy setting, and Planetfall and Dune for sci-fi. The system is reminiscent of the early games but offers the best of all of them in my opinion plus it holds it own unique mechanics that I mostly enjoy. This title can give me personally everything the rest of the list offers all put together. It is possible for Civ 7 to make it to group one, but it is so unique that Civ 7 making it to the top would not push Civ 4 down because they are so different. Civ 7 cannot offer nostalgia based on Civ 1-3, Civ 4 magically somehow does.

I hope Civ 7 can climb the ladder one more spot, but I don't see Civ 7 dropping below group 3 ever. If it ever does fall to group 3 for me, it will probably push Civ 6 down to Group 4. But I suspect it will always be in Group 1 or 2 after further development.
 
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I'm so glad GDR and X-com units are gone. They certainly weren't in Civ4 which is the best as you say. Neither unit makes any sense. The game scale is too large for any type of commando unit to make any sense (so yeah no Navy seal unit either). And GDR's would have too many vulnerabilities to have any use in a realism point of view. The future of warfare is smaller and smaller drones, not a large bipedal thing that can be knocked over. They are about as useful as AT-AT's in Star Wars. :)

Is it a bad game? Certainly not. But it's quite average to me. Eventually I'll get back into it if the dlc ever gets significantly cheaper, but at the moment other games are my focus.

edit: Although didn't Civ 4 have a Navy seal unit? I seem to remember one in one game. If so, that was a misstep in an otherwise great game. Surely they could have thought of a better UU. As I said, I don't care for commando type units, at least not ones that engage in direct combat with frontline units. Having them act as a type of espionage unit that could blow things up would be interesting.
 
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They'll never get me to hate GDR. I think some goofy silly things in a mostly realistic down to earth game adds to the charm. We could have nothing fun and all serious but then like what's the point? And GDR comes at the end of the game so it's not really touching immersion or anything.
 
edit: Although didn't Civ 4 have a Navy seal unit? I seem to remember one in one game. If so, that was a misstep in an otherwise great game. Surely they could have thought of a better UU. As I said, I don't care for commando type units, at least not ones that engage in direct combat with frontline units. Having them act as a type of espionage unit that could blow things up would be interesting.
Yeah, Civ 4 America has Navy SEAL UU. I actually think late game units and UUs should be overpowered. Late game needs the stakes raised and "game changers". I wouldn't go so far as GDRs but commando units dont bother me personally. Especially, if you put a limit on them or made them powerful but really expensive like Commanders. I think I prefer influence espionage acts vs. Spy units walking the map.

I would like the endgame to feel like everything is in jeopardy but with good diplomacy. I dont like the idea of AI dogpiling the player but think every AI should feel like a threat by having a "World War" feel like a threat. Sure, you may have allies in the war but if some units/missiles could attack from crazy range and just the idea of war was threatening because all units are powerful and kind of unpredictable was the bigger threat. If there was no way to guarantee security of you empire from a war, diplomacy could become a high stakes game.
 
I kind of love the GDRs as well. I remember one game I was playing, one of my rock band units was passing through an area where two of the AI civs were at war with each other, and these two GDRs were attacking each other right next to the tile where my poor rock band was. I imagined them inside the van either freaking out or taking pictures with their cellphones.
 
I kind of love the GDRs as well. I remember one game I was playing, one of my rock band units was passing through an area where two of the AI civs were at war with each other, and these two GDRs were attacking each other right next to the tile where my poor rock band was. I imagined them inside the van either freaking out or taking pictures with their cellphones.
I remember when they introduced GDRs in Civ5, pointing to an overly enthusiastic thread on this site in the "Suggestions" forum. It was a late game unit, for fun, and not intended to be historical. Civ6, in the tradition of Spinal Tap, turned the GDR up to 11 with promotions, mountain-spanning leaps, and better animation. For me, they are like an ice cream treat for having made it to the final portion of the tech tree. They are fun to move around and to use for attacks, compared with nukes.

I might really like a new late-age unit, such as improved versions of drones or Civ3's cruise missiles. Updating the late-game military doctrines from WWII and Vietnam heavy bombers to match what we've seen in the 2020's.
 
So I've been playing civ since civ4 back in 2005 and civ 7, and civs ing general just keep getting worse. Beloved domination victory no longer exists, no more xcom units and giant death robots, forced civ switching and forced quest loops are lame. I only beat the game once as a science victory type because the other means of victory seemed too confusing. The music still seems decent but for some reason nothing beats civ4 for me followed by civ 5. Civ 6 unit movement and production really slows to a crawl. Also these independent peoples keep spamming units even after I stick units in their town and I can't raze them like a barbarian encampent from previous games. Will they fix these issues?

Most of what is mentioned in this post is false. For example, you can win by Domination it's just not a legacy path. You absolutely can disperse or raze Independent People. You are entitled to your opinion but it seems your opinion is based largely on assumptions you have made based on not understanding the game. Your statement, "I only beat the game once as a science victory type because the other means of victory seemed too confusing," says a lot. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you declare it's not a good game based on one playthrough where you clearly didn't understand what you were doing.
 
I think we should let this thread die because coming to the forums and seeing this title as the top post isn't very welcoming. I'm not trying to supress anyone's opinion, it's just a crappy thing to show newcomers or people looking for information.
 
People had nearly a decade to master Civ 6. Learning to love Civ 7 will take time.
The only thing I find funny is this post, which makes me think that you have to force yourself to enjoy Civ7. Yes it might take 10 years. I promise by the end you'll enjoy it. This is like Stockholm Syndrome from greedy developers of a series you once enjoyed 20 years ago.

All power to you of course but I simply don't agree that it's a matter of time. The only reason Civ6 performed so well is because they actually did improve it. Launch Civ6 was bad. Launch Civ5 was bad. Launch Civ7 is bad. They didn't spend time mastering it to enjoy it. They spent time waiting on the developers to actually make it good.
 
The only thing I find funny is this post, which makes me think that you have to force yourself to enjoy Civ7. Yes it might take 10 years. I promise by the end you'll enjoy it. This is like Stockholm Syndrome from greedy developers of a series you once enjoyed 20 years ago.

All power to you of course but I simply don't agree that it's a matter of time. The only reason Civ6 performed so well is because they actually did improve it. Launch Civ6 was bad. Launch Civ5 was bad. Launch Civ7 is bad. They didn't spend time mastering it to enjoy it. They spent time waiting on the developers to actually make it good.
You completely missed my point, by a long shot. The point is that Civ players get so stubbornly attached to a Civ game that it will take them a long time to get used to the newest game. That's all. In the mean time, they like to complain about how the latest Civ game is awful. This is a tradition in the community.
 
I've played the game more than once- lack of units, tiny ui, crappy ui that's not informative, UI constantly asks me inane questions blocking turns, insanely priced DLC, Leaders differing from their historical civilization. There's more too.
 
You completely missed my point, by a long shot. The point is that Civ players get so stubbornly attached to a Civ game that it will take them a long time to get used to the newest game. That's all. In the mean time, they like to complain about how the latest Civ game is awful. This is a tradition in the community.
So I've heard about tradition. Well, I didn't miss your point, you just didn't say that in your first post.

Why would someone enjoy a new release that is missing something from the game they have already?
Or it has something that is poorly implemented in comparison?

Boiling things down to tradition is missing the point of why Civ fans are constantly upset by new releases.
They're constantly upset because every new release is... On release... Worse than the previous release.

So you have to wait about 6 years to actually get a game on par with the game you already had. And investing in that from the start actually costs you way more than just waiting and picking up the complete edition at the end.

Anyhow, stubborn attachment? Maybe some people. But basic logic is probably the driving force.
Boot up Civ7 as it is now. Does it have even 10% of the replayability of Civ6, Civ5 or Civ4? If you answered Yes you're lying to yourself.

Or what about the polish of the mechanics? Religion or government in Civ7 is really half baked.
This is the type of stuff they leave especially for expansions.
They've done this for 3 games straight.

Why not release the game with all the base features to a really good par and then work on improving it?
 
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