Civ5 coming with Steam enforcement and DRM - will you buy it?

[Chalks]

(None would be obvious answer but let's not start another depate over that )Well, what ever the games in the particular DD service use (and none of them want to use steamworks for obvious reasons , they dont want their customers to have to deal with additional (competitors) client). Less the better. It's not my problem if it's cracked day 1. My only concern is my own needs and how I want to play the game. I choose stores with least DRM and that are most lenient about it so I have easiest way around them if I have problems with them.

It is unreasonable to expect a game to use multiple digital DRM systems. I'm not aware of any game that does this - the closest you get is with outdated physical CD based DRM which is patched out by the DD providers.

Modern DRM is far more complex (obviously) than the old style of "is cd in drive?" DRM that could be cracked by changing a handful of bytes in the game's binary.

It's not my problem if it's cracked day 1.

But it is their problem, and what you are demanding is for them to ignore something that they consider to be a significant problem for what? So you can have a slightly more convenient download? Or 16mb of extra free RAM from not running the Steam client? It is not a reasonable position to take.

 

[millahnna]

Hotlinkers beware...can't see the funny.

I've seen references to altered game dlls to allow steam users to play their games without launching steam (after initial authentication) back during their HalfLife nightmare. So like I said before, if the nerds are able to crack this so that I can install without keeping corporate malware on my PC, then I'll buy and spread the word where I'm able. If there's one thing pirates are good at it's turning off privacy invading software intended to stop piracy. One of life's little ironies.

 

[Lars_Domus]

You said that a rational person would conclude that Civ 5 would not have DRM. So you tell me.

No, I inferred that one could make such a conclusion without being mentally ill.

It is difficult to gauge the real impact of game piracy on the industry since it is impossible to find an unbiased source of information. However, since companies are willing to undergo significant development effort and inconvenience their customers in order to use it, it seems safe to conclude that the affect or at least the potential effect is severe in the eyes of the game developers.

They clearly think that the DRM is required in order for them to turn a profit from the game. Given that, discussing the merits of the game having DRM compared to being DRM free is as useful as discussing the merits of the game costing $39.99 compared to costing $4.99.

Good for consumers, bad for games company, not going to happen so who cares?

Mostly the game developers say that they would like to have gone without DRM, or at least as unrestrictive DRM as possible, while the publishers force the issue. Your argument still might make sense, though, as I recon economists and analysts are more likely to be hired on the publishing site.

Though, how can we conclude anything about the effects of going without DRM when no one is willing to try? (The reason of course being, publishers know by experience they will make money on games released with DRM (even though they're still being pirated), but they have no idea what will happen if they go without. (Nor, obviously, do I, or I would be making a fortune right now.))

Does that mean I have to buy games that, in my eyes, are being deliberately made into lower quality products? No way, I wont put up with it, and neither should you.

"But it's Civ, man, you gotta play it!"
Not really. There are plenty of fun indie games out there, whose struggling developers need your money more than 2k.

"But if we don't buy games with DRM, they'll blame it on piracy and drop the PC scene altogether/ go out of business!"
Good. Then someone else will see the unfulfilled demand for PC games, note that there's probably some money to be made and fill the void. That's how capitalism works.

Of course I know that will never happen. People will continue to buy their mainstream industry games even if they have to give a blood sample to install them "because it's the new X, you just have to play it!" In the meantime I'll enjoy my DRM-less indie games, thank you very much.

Steam... Yeah, sure, I can kinda see the appeal of the community features, synchronizing saves across different computers, maybe even achievements... But I don't like having to run an extra layer of proprietary software in the background on my already strained system. I don't like the fact that Valve can block me out from the products that I payed for, and I don't like the fact that I can't make backups wherever and however I want. To put it bluntly, the less control I have over a product, the less compelling it is to me.

"But it's their product, so it's their prerogative to offer it under any terms they like."
Yes, sure, fine, but then they'll also have to do without my money.

 

[Avs]

Nobody should have to justify their purchase or convince others to buy the game. So just say no to flame wars. The DRM argument along with Steam is such a smoke and mirrors tactic that it seems people these days rather bandwagon that line of reasoning rather than ask themselves if this game is worth it stand alone.

 

[kiwitt]

Ouch !!! - Steam is required to play Civ 5. Sheesh ... I don't buy many games ... I think the last I bought Empire:TW used it, long since deleted, along with Steam.

I wondered why the hell do I need to install Steam to be able play one game I have the DVD for. So I created an account and went through the process, etc and then I could play. If I played multiple games, I could understand, but for one game, it seems like overkill.

I lalso, don't like the idea of a permanent connection to my PC by a third party ... just for one game.

So let me get this straight ... to play Civ 5, I will need to install Steam, have a connection to the internet and also a DVD. I may just now stop at Civ 4 ... and say good bye to any further updates. I did this with Total War series, I'll now have to do this with Civilization series.

 

[Dale]

I love the people who say "OOooo Steam is bad so I'm not buying Civ5 and buying Elemental instead!"

Right....... like Impulse (required to play Elemental) is any different to Steam?

 

[toft]

Who is to blame? Not those that buy the game, and not Firaxis or Take2. It's the freakin pirates... always the pirates.

 

[Maeztu]

I am not buying it, but not because is coming with Steam enforcement, whatever that is, but because I was a bit disappointed on the first edition of CiV IV. I prefer to wait until they release the first expansion pack to buy it.

I have 3 legal copies of civilization games. I support the developers, but in return I would like to be treated fairly, and some anti-piracy measures are really hurting the people who buy legal copies.

 

[kiwitt]

Who is to blame? Not those that buy the game, and not Firaxis or Take2. It's the freakin pirates... always the pirates.

Why impose something on the many for the sins of the few.

I use AVAST anti-virus. My licence to use lasts 1 year or so. All I need to do is re-register to keep it current.

Why not something similar for Civ 5. Buy Civ 5, install game and you can play for about 30 days, send them the Unique DVD Key and they send you a unique license key. Install the licence key that matches your DVD key. You then have a a year of play until you next renewal. I am sure this could be automated behind the scenes.

 

[j-d-s]

You mean the poll where it says the majority are still going to buy civ5 and the rest are probably telling the truth until it comes out and gets rave reviews and then they'll secretly buy it or pirate it smugly?

Hm, as i can see half of the potential customers won't buy it if it comes with Steam enforcement. You're right, a little majority will still buy it - but notice, half customers, half income.

Also, I don't really think they said anything about using any DRM in civ5, just going to use steam.

Steam is DRM, joker.

 

[Dale]

Hm, as i can see half of the potential customers won't buy it if it comes with Steam enforcement. You're right, a little majority will still buy it - but notice, half customers, half income.

So....... about 10,000 active Civ members here, with maybe a couple thousand more at other sites (assuming no double-ups). Civ4 sold millions of copies.

That translates to "half customers" how?

 

[btsplayer]

Why is DRM seen as the inevitable fact that cannot be undone? Seems as it is a reality as the natural laws of physics.

I wish for change in publishers practices.

Btw, I voted "no", though I am hard core civ fan.

 

[BTA47]

Why is DRM seen as the inevitable fact that cannot be undone? Seems as it is a reality as the natural laws of physics.

I wish for change in publishers practices.

Btw, I voted "no", though I am hard core civ fan.

We all do, but as long as people are pirating games, it won't happen.

 

[MrHan]

As long as Steam's involvement with Civ 5 is limited to activation, I'll have no problem with it.

What does annoy me, though, is this special edition bullcrap that makes you pay extra for babylon. it's cheap, unprofessional, and is a blight upon a great game.


also, has there been word about the extent of DRM on civ 5? what exactly will be controlled? is it going to be just activation or will we have to squeeze through steam every time we want to change a variable on an xml file? i'm not so clear on this DRM thing, could someone clarify?

 

[BTA47]

also, has there been word about the extent of DRM on civ 5? what exactly will be controlled? is it going to be just activation or will we have to squeeze through steam every time we want to change a variable on an xml file? i'm not so clear on this DRM thing, could someone clarify?

Activation through Steam, of course, will be the major part. I'm not sure how Steamworks works, though - you probably need to keep Steam open int he background, too. But it's not a big deal, it's tiny and works offline.

 

[MrHan]

Activation through Steam, of course, will be the major part. I'm not sure how Steamworks works, though - you probably need to keep Steam open int he background, too. But it's not a big deal, it's tiny and works offline.

well, as long as it stays at that, then i'll be fine. what i'm afraid of, though, is that it won't allow me to mess with the data files in the game. I haven't used steam since like 2004, so I'm a bit clueless here

 

[Jecrell]

Steam has treated me well over the years, so I don't mind. If possible I would like less DRM, but ultimately the game is worth more than the opportunity to protest. Can't wait to see those achievements though.

 

[MaxCiv]

I have been using Steam since HL2 and over the years I gradually used it more and more. Never had an issue with it and now I buy new games exclusively on Steam, especially when they have week end offers or 50-70% off.

Just this morning I got Civ4 Complete for $10 and Civ 3 Complete for $1.25. Can't beat that. The only exception will be SC2 when it comes out in July.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

This forum thread (third post down) has one example of the uninstall phenom.

Some horror stories of different natures here (not being able to play a game offline because you're internet is down? that's garbage). How about the user who had his account deactivated because an acquaintance gifted him a game with a stolen credit card (yeah I know, pick better homies right)? Admittedly, there's some legit debate around that situation but I "love" how the thief wasn't punished just some guy he only knew online who was, at worst, overly trusting of a stranger.

I'd have to ask the boyfriend about the specifics he saw when he was looking for a fix for his problems to get more info; most of this was me listening to him grumble. His anti-virus settings went crazy and his Nero installation got hosed (securom game I'm guessing, probably bioshock). It's the Nero installation that bugs me the most; for a piece of code to assume that the only reason a person would have a copy of Nero is for piracy really, really bothers me.

See, whats great about people like this is they can spew all the flilth they want with little or no recourse. The first link is from 2004. A known issue at the time that is long gone. The 2nd is from Impulse, a competitor. (Who wont let me play the one game i own from them. Irony) The third situation has little to do with steam at all, If your Bank account has stolen funds in it, they shut it down too.

For those who are not afraid of change, this will be the likely install process for Steam:
1. Download the game. This unfortunatly doesn't matter disk or not based on recent games Such as Total War and Supreme Commander 2. This is a distributor snafu, and according to them keeps piracy down. It sucks, but plan for it.
2. Login/Register for Steam. Slight pain, but what game has zero registration these days?
3. Play the game. Yeah thats right. Play the game. STEAM will be running, but if you need the 5mbs of RAM it takes then your probably not going to be able to play CIV 5.

Want to keep multiple installs of CIV? Just copy the entire folder to a new directory outside of the STEAM folder. Delete the wrong file? Steam knows which ones are missing. Paranoid about the machine hacking your data and telling the government your not dead and evading taxes? /tinfoilhat

The bottom line is that this will suck for those without a modern internet connection until the game is installed. After that, all of it works as normal for them. All i ask is that you don't allow fearmongers like the above to infulence your opinion. I can tell you of many times i was frustrated with STEAM, and a greater amount of times where without STEAM i would have been 3 times as frustrated. You'll never know if the fearmongers are correct if you don't at least try it for yourself.

 

[gunnergoz]

I want no part of any intrusive scheme like Steam.
I've been buying PC games since the 80's, have purchased and played Civ since the beginning, but I will not buy Civ V if they require Steam. I stopped purchasing the Total War series because of the same reason, as much as I would probably otherwise been inclined to buy ETW.
So Sid just lost a customer, for good. Not that he cares.
Too bad, I would have enjoyed the game, but I will not allow intrusion into my PC in this fashion. And with this development, I will probably leave this forum now after many year's participation in it, because there is no point in it after this. Not that most of you care, either, but it did at one time matter to me.