Civ5 Diplo (1 question)

[omnishakira]

Hi,

Just one question.

When the AI ask you if you're about to Dow them or not when your army is nearby and tell them no but actually Dow them anyway, does this affect the diplo with other Civ than the one I just attacked ?

Thank you guys

 

[Heerlo]

I'm not totally sure.One time on Civ5 vanilla I did this to Mongolia and it didn't seem to affect other civs.I don't know how it is on G&K, since I don't think I've ever experienced this on G&K yet.

 

[Aristos]

Hi,

Just one question.

When the AI ask you if you're about to Dow them or not when your army is nearby and tell them no but actually Dow them anyway, does this affect the diplo with other Civ than the one I just attacked ?

Thank you guys

This is one of the big No-no's. If you do that, the modifier is so strong that it will stay with you for the rest of the game, blocking any possible positive relation, and dragging most civilizations to war with you. In higher levels, permanent war can be a big drag and keep you behind in tech/economy, basically dooming your game (unless you go all out for Domination).

 

[Aristos]

I'm not totally sure.One time on Civ5 vanilla I did this to Mongolia and it didn't seem to affect other civs.I don't know how it is on G&K, since I don't think I've ever experienced this on G&K yet.

You probably did it before Mongolia met any other civ, and finished them off. No negative word of mouth is possible from ghosts...

 

[omnishakira]

Another question : You know the shield promotion that gives +33% protection vs ranged unit (sorry my civ is french i dont know the name in english). Does that shield works against planes ?

Thank you !

This is one of the big No-no's. If you do that, the modifier is so strong that it will stay with you for the rest of the game, blocking any possible positive relation, and dragging most civilizations to war with you. In higher levels, permanent war can be a big drag and keep you behind in tech/economy, basically dooming your game (unless you go all out for Domination).

Okay thank you ! Any way for me to know how many turns ive to wait before I can attack them without diplo hit ?

 

[Aristos]

Another question : You know the shield promotion that gives +33% protection vs ranged unit (sorry my civ is french i dont know the name in english). Does that shield works against planes ?

Thank you !



Okay thank you ! Any way for me to know how many turns ive to wait before I can attack them without diplo hit ?

That is a good question... should be findable in the game files, but I never looked. I just assumed that it is a big No-no, and usually a product of bad planning (either strategically or tactically). When I plan correctly WHEN and HOW to attack, I never encounter the dilemma represented by the AI's message (War or Pass by). It seems to be a better habit in the long term. In other words, when you are planning to back stab them, they should not be able to find out your maneuvers before you actually DOW.

 

[Jelster]

This really frustrates me on 2 counts:

1) I can't ask the AI the same question, even when I can see them lining their army up.

2) How far, and for how long do I have to move them away ? In my current game diplomacy broke down between myself and Nebby, so I moved some units towards my borders. When he complained I moved them away for around 10 turns, then brought them back when I was ready to enter war. I had denounced him previously, so I thought I was good to go, but no, I still got the diplo hit....

 

[Heerlo]

You probably did it before Mongolia met any other civ, and finished them off. No negative word of mouth is possible from ghosts...

I think I had met England, and I'm pretty sure Mongolia had, too.And besides that, I didn't finish off Mongolia, yet still no diplo affect except for with the Khan as far as I know.

 

[Biologist]

Betraying your word about troop movements to one civ affects your relationship with other civs. Even civs that did not have contact with you or your victim seem to be aware of your treachery via their psychic powers. Or, possibly, they learn about your actions as soon as they contact anybody who already met you. Either way, lying about troop movements is a fairly steep penalty. It doesn't make diplomacy completely hopeless, but it does make it much harder to form friendships with other civs.

 

[Aaron90495]

IMO, if your units are almost in-place anyways, it's better to DoW them when they come to you asking about your troops. The negative modifier is incredibly strong, so unless you think taking damage to/losing one or two units will prevent you from taking the city, it's better to just attack.

 

[Matthew.]

Of all the diplomatic "systems" this is the absolute worse. If you truly are not planning on DoW and say so, then something changes a handful of turns later, you are stuck, unable to DoW unless you take a hit to world-wide diplomacy.

Does anyone know off-hand how long you need to wait until it is safe to DoW again? It'd be nice if it was ~10 turns, but I suspect it is either the standard 30 or never, which is not fun.

And yet another example of AI having the ability to do so, but not yourself. Apparently it is OK to watch the AI dance their entire military around your borders for as long as they want with no penalty.

 

[bixbeiderbaby]

1) I can't ask the AI the same question, even when I can see them lining their army up.

Yes, this drives me nuts too. There are plenty of times that you know an opponent is about the DOW despite a facade of friendliness.

 

[Cedbird]

Of all the diplomatic "systems" this is the absolute worse. If you truly are not planning on DoW and say so, then something changes a handful of turns later, you are stuck, unable to DoW unless you take a hit to world-wide diplomacy.

Does anyone know off-hand how long you need to wait until it is safe to DoW again? It'd be nice if it was ~10 turns, but I suspect it is either the standard 30 or never, which is not fun.

And yet another example of AI having the ability to do so, but not yourself. Apparently it is OK to watch the AI dance their entire military around your borders for as long as they want with no penalty.

Oh put a sock in it u guys . Its not so bad . I understand where your coming from but its a minor aspect of the game that causes us with brains ( those who are not the AI ) to preplan a little more on Offense and Defense. People like me have always been saying the AI was too weak . Well this helps the AI out a little .
Personally I enjoy seeing there units creep up to my borders . I be thinking ha ha ha ok here we go time for some boom boom . . At least sometimes . But it keeps me on my toes. As you always should be in CIV . And life I must add

 

[Matthew.]

If borders were farther away, I'd agree. With how close borders can often be, your military will always be in that "danger zone" with or without planning. The majority if the time the window comes up isn't because I am secretly positioning my army for an awesome attack, but rather they are just sitting near my natural borders.

I don't mind the AI bringing up the question, but the world-wide hit is just silly. Why should I be punished world-wide because a paranoid leader freaked out about one too many units moving near its borders 20 turns earlier (which can translate into hundreds of years)?

Edit: And yes, it is only a game, but think of all the real life scenarios where there has been border tension with military. You don't have leaders of nations saying "Hey I saw you fly a little close with that drone. Declare war on me now or forever be shamed by every nation on Earth!"

 

[Cicerosaurus]

This really frustrates me on 2 counts:

1) I can't ask the AI the same question, even when I can see them lining their army up.

2) How far, and for how long do I have to move them away ? In my current game diplomacy broke down between myself and Nebby, so I moved some units towards my borders. When he complained I moved them away for around 10 turns, then brought them back when I was ready to enter war. I had denounced him previously, so I thought I was good to go, but no, I still got the diplo hit....

IMHO I think there should be an extra couple of replies available.

As well as the two already there I would add something along these lines:

1. If we decide on war, it will be a time and place I choose...... (so you are not saying either way), and

2. For every unit you move away from my border, I will remove one.... or.... For every unit you maintain on my border I will keep an equal number of units...

 

[Jelster]

IMHO I think there should be an extra couple of replies available.

As well as the two already there I would add something along these lines:

1. If we decide on war, it will be a time and place I choose...... (so you are not saying either way), and

2. For every unit you move away from my border, I will remove one.... or.... For every unit you maintain on my border I will keep an equal number of units...

I'd actually like to say "They are there for defensive purposes, if you want me to back off, remove your units from my borders".

 

[Zaimejs]

I agree that it would be nice to say something to the AI like that, but really... the AI only says those things so we know that there is some diplo hit. We have no diplo points with the AI. I don't have a set number of points that will make me DOW or denounce. I make that decision myself. So if I see the AI piling up on my borders, and he/she attacks, then I get all mad... and I may not do any deals with him/her the rest of the game, but that is a decision... not an algorithm. So being able to say what the AI says wouldn't really DO anything.

On another note, I'm glad you asked this question. I had no idea that I was taking a big hit if I said no and then attacked later. I thought I was being sneaky.

 

[Biologist]

I seem to remember that in a previous version of Civilization (I think it was Civ III), units could walk all over other players' borders without an open borders treaty. Much like in Civ V, though, your opponents would complain if you violated their borders. After 1-2 turns of this, they could force you to choose whether to teleport your troops away, sign an open borders treaty, or declare war. I also remember being able to contact the AI and demand they move their troops out of your territory in the same way.

I don't see why it would be so difficult to have an option where if there are 4 or more units belonging to Civ X within 2 tiles of your cultural borders, you can contact Civ X and demand that they withdraw. If they refuse, war is declared and you can move preemptively. If they accept, then they will receive a severe diplomatic penalty with all other AIs if they betray you, most likely causing others to denounce or declare war on them.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Regarding the option, if you say : Yes, I am about to DOW you, does that allow the AI to "defend" themselves (i.e attack you first before you make the first move?)

 

[Jaybe]

Regarding the option, if you say : Yes, I am about to DOW you, does that allow the AI to "defend" themselves (i.e attack you first before you make the first move?)

Yes, it always has in civ 5.