1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civ5 ruined my Civ4 brain

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Inso, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Inso

    Inso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    Years ago I used to play Civ 4 obsessively. With the help of this forum I was able to get up to beating Immortal Fractals maybe 50% of the time.

    Then I stopped playing for a while and piucked up Civ 5 at last. Really enjoyed it, played fairly regularly for a year or so. Everything is so...simple and idiot proof, nice big buttons and colours, clear mechanics, loved the social policy system. Can easily beat Immortal, and Deity most of the time.

    Then recently I decided to give Civ 4 another go. Feels like I've gone from Checkers to Chess. The happiness, health, cottages, specialists, and the WHIP, everything all at once from the beginning, is making my brain hurt. Yet I can see what I've been missing all this time, such a level of depth, intricacy and calculation. The sheer array of potential strategies is amazing.

    Civ 5, although still fun, now feels like playing the dumbed down kids version. Anyone else feel similar?
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  2. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    9,772
    Gender:
    Female
    Civ4 was made in a time where game depth & creating something special was #1 priority still,
    that time before everybody & their dogs discovered the interwebs (are dogs and cats on social media yet?).

    Now priority switched to reaching as many different peoples as possible,
    plenty who want easily accessible games, and for us who liked games with more depth..well..
    let's just say the Civ series died after IV for me. Fair enuf, dun need much more ;)
     
  3. Inso

    Inso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    That's an excellent point. I'm 30 so have seen this transition first hand. I hadn't considered the point about the accessibility of the Internet.

    Aopther perfect example of this is Morrowind (Civ 4) and Skyrim (Civ 5). Morrowind has infinitely more depth and strategy to it as an RPG, while Skyrim spoon feeds everything to you the entire time. A great game should be have the potential for a lengthy dissertation to be written about the strategy and approaches involved.

    About to fire up a game of Civ IV, on Emperor this time, playing as Huayna Capac to provide a nice handicap :D
     
  4. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Things have gotten even more complex with the Civ4 mods that have had the time to flush out bugs, add new challenging mechanics and an overall better feel to the game.

    For example, in the Realism Invictus mod (updated as of January 30th 2018), balancing was done. There are no strength 8 Roman swordsmen or Strength 2 Inca Quecha warriors.
    New traits were added such as Seafaring (+1 Trade route for coastal cities, builds harbors faster and bonuses for naval vessels) and Conqueror (builds stables faster and bonuses for mounted and siege).
    Horse Archers and mounted Horsemen are separate unit upgrade lines, with different bonuses and have different counter units.
    Recon units progress beyond strength 4 units and can attack units. Such as the Hunter with a +50% attack vs melee.
    Marshes, Flood plains and Jungles can cause epidemics. Certain buildings and traits reduce this.
    Slavery can cause revolts adding barbarian revolting peasants units near your cities. So not always the easy choice every game. Build Chariots, Hunters, Horsemen or Horse Archers to pick them off before they pillage your resources.
    There is more at their links below.
    Download Thread:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/realism-invictus.411799/
    Forum Thread:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ4-realism-invictus.202/
     
  5. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,303
    Location:
    Chicago
    While play testing the game, this was the first complaint I had. You shouldn't be able to beat a civ game at the highest level of difficulty the first time you play it. If you can, what's the point of the lower levels. (and you failed making the game complex)
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  6. Inso

    Inso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    Thank you, I will look into those.

    Rah - I can imagine. After coming back to Civ 4 I realize quite how shockingly 5 is dumbed down. 4 has so many delicious strategies and approaches. Beating Deity takes a real investment of time and determination. Games used to be hard!
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  7. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,303
    Location:
    Chicago
    Even thinking back to CIV II where Deity was also much easier to beat than in IV but you had to at least learn the game a bit before you could.
    When they were making IV they were joking that deity would be darn near impossible. And it was until people dissected the game and learned it. Even then it's not simple. But I'm sure it's a lot easier than they originally intended it to be.
     
  8. davelisowski

    davelisowski Spartan

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    351
    Agreed. I fired up 4 again like a month ago because all the other games I have are lacking the depth and thought needed to complete a Civ game... I forgot how much I used to know and halfway through my first game back there are a bunch of mistakes, like glaring mistakes that would have already cost me the game if I were on a higher difficulty.

    There's a reason I'm playing a nearly 10 year old game (is it 10? Or more?). Anyway, definitely looking forward to getting my mojo back. I plan to play from the easy leaders on through to difficult ones and then move up in difficulty to get back where I was. Problem is, it looks like no HOF was saved on my tower (or it got reset) so I don't recall where I was... Monarch or Emperor? I just know that the mistakes I've made would have ruined my game (and maybe already has) and I'm only on Noble!
     
  9. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    "It was released in North America, Europe, and Australia, between October 25 and November 4, 2005."
    So, 13 years.
    That's ok. MOO2 was released in NA: November 22, 1996 EU: December 16, 1996.
    So, 22 years and I still play that. :)
    Great games, like Great music are enjoyed decades after they were originally made.
     
    Mozzington likes this.
  10. babybluepants

    babybluepants Chieftain Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,824
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I took more than 5 years off from paying Civ 4, before coming back to it recently. The first Imm game I tried was abandoned midway through after making a bunch of rookie mechanics mistakes, but I got back into reasonably high-level play very quickly after that. It's like riding a bike. You just have to remind yourself of some of the numbers/math involved.

    I'm amazed at how much the higher-level playing strategies have evolved on this forum in my time away. Even though the community is so much smaller than it used to be, the level of play seems higher and there is still real innovation happening. That's a testament to the depth and quality of the game.

    To be fair, it was tougher in Vanilla, and much tougher in Warlords.
     
  11. Inso

    Inso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    If I'm not careful I can even lose on Noble/Prince now i.e. early DOW by Shaka or something. Used to be able to comfortable beat Emp and some Imm maps (good starts lol)

    I am about to buy and play MOO2 from steam it sounds amazing. Curse you if this means another Civ-like addiction
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  12. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,303
    Location:
    Chicago
    While that is very true, I'm sure the devs were still surprised at how soon Deity was being beat routinely.
     
  13. elmurcis

    elmurcis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    Latvia
    If that would be "learning all by player only" - it would take loooong time. But this chance to learn from others, get some coding knowledge etc. that all made that difference between "have big stack and dead economy" vs "he is safe, she is safe, bribe him to him and both safe too, stay with warriors and Lib that tech X to roll over the map" :D
     
  14. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
  15. Inso

    Inso Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    Awesome, thanks.
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  16. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,303
    Location:
    Chicago
    Yeah, I remember MOO2 fondly. I may have to revisit it. Thx.
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  17. Lennier

    Lennier Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, NY
    Too bad they screwed the pooch with MOO3. They were actually overly ambitious in their game design, and Atari finally pulled the plug on game development and published what was effectively an alpha. And I paid $50 for it. :cry:
     
    plasmacannon likes this.
  18. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Yea. I think I did too back then. I was astonished when MOO4 was created with those same darn lines from MOO3 all over the map forcing us to travel on certain paths, completely destroying the freedom of movement concept established in MOO1 and MOO2. If a MOO5 is ever created, I hope they actually read what their fans/buyers actually like about their game and purchase their product for those requirements. There have been plenty of newer space games created over the years. To me, all are worthless without tactical combat controlled by the player. I don't want to watch a movie of combat. I want the satisfaction of coming up with a brilliant maneuver like in MOO1 where I could move my ship behind an asteroid field and missiles targeted on me would get damaged going thru it giving me fewer to have to eliminate, resulting in a smarter strategy over just move forward and shoot everything. I don't see this with custom races, custom ships I won't buy it.
     
  19. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,303
    Location:
    Chicago
    Yeah, I forked over for MOO3, but that was the last one.
     
  20. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    2,857
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    Don't know about cats and dogs, but sheep are. ;)
     

Share This Page