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Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

Discussion in 'News Updates' started by V. Soma, May 6, 2010.

  1. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

    Joined:
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    Oregon
    This is how we all feel about additional content having a price tag from day 1:




    Don't go down the path of Activision, EA, and Creative Assembly :(
     
  2. Sub

    Sub in omnia paratus

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    600
    Interesting responses. I think from a consumers point of view, it would be best if Steam wasn't mandatory, but the fact remains that it is and it's not an entirely bad thing.

    Let's examine this:

    Pros of Steam
    - You no longer need to have your CD/DVD in the computer while playing. In fact, you can throw out the disc if you really want.
    - You no longer need to worry about finding and installing patches. Patches will now be downloaded automatically. Don't want this? You can turn the feature off with two or three mouse clicks.
    - You can download Civilization V on any PC you want, anywhere you want.
    - Your saved games/custom settings can be saved by Steam. This means that when you install Steam on a new PC or uninstall Civ V and then install Civ V again at a later time, you'll still have access to all your saved games and settings. Don't like this? It's a choice, you don't have to opt into it.
    - Steam gives you access to an ingame internet browser. No more having to alt tab to jump onto Civ Fanatics, now you can bring it up in-game.
    - Steam also comes with a friends list. Add friends from Civ Fanatics, talk to them ingame if you want, see when others are playing. Don't want this? You can either not add anyone to your friends list or turn it off.
    - Steam has some ridiculously good sales. Far Cry 2 for $2.50? Bioshock for $5?
    - Achievements
    - Steam provides Firaxis / 2k games with great sales data. They'll have a very good idea on how well the game is selling
    - Steam also provides protection against piracy. Yes, Civilization V is going to be pirated eventually, but using Steam does prevent games from being cracked for a day or two. The vast majority of sales occur within the first week, so preventing the game from being pirated for as long as possible is important.
    - All of this is offered to 2k Games at no monetary cost. The only requisite is that the game require Steam.

    Neutral:
    - I cannot imagine mods not working with Civ V because of Steam. First of all, their touting mod support on the Civ 5 site and in interviews. Second, there are many games with Steamworks that have excellent mod support.
    - Someone claimed that Steam collects your information and posts it online. This is partly true. Every few months Steam conducts a hardware survey. You have to opt into this survey, Steam only collects hardware information (ie: what videocard you're running), and all data collected about your computer is anonymous.

    Cons:
    - You must activate the game the first time you install it.
    - You can play in offline mode after you activate the game for the first time, but I don't know how well offline mode works. It's supposedly fixed now, but there is a chance you'll always need an internet connection to play the game.
    - It's middleware, just another step from you getting into your game
    - Whose to say Steam will be around in 10 or 20 years? What will happen if Valve goes out of business? Will we no longer be able to play the game?
    - It uses 30k of memory, which is apparently entirely too much for some...

    When Steam first came out, it was an absolute rubbish program and deserved every bit of criticism that was leveled at it. This is no longer that program. Give it another shot. If for some reason you still end up hating Steam, fine, don't buy Civ V. I for one am a fan of Steam and will be buying it.

    Also, someone was complaining about Supreme Commander 2 downloading 3 gigs worth of patches. There was a bug which caused the entire game to redownload. This won't happen with Civ V.
     
  3. cccv

    cccv King

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
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    798
    Yeah, I'll admit I'm an idiot.

    You can pretend Babylon is "bonus" all you want, but it's a major civilization. And you're going to refuse it to anyone who doesn't fork over an extra 10 bucks.

    So I'm an idiot. I'm going to buy 9/10ths of the game (no I'm not doing actual math here, leave me alone) at full price, and then I'm going to pay extra for the 1/10th of the game you're holding hostage. I could give a crap less about the behind the scenes stuff (but I will admit, if the soundtrack is anywhere as good as Civ4/Warlords, I wouldn't mind having that, though not enough to buy it).

    So I'm going to let you make me pay full price for the game and then pay again to get the rest of what I just bought. And I'll resent every second of it. But I'm an idiot and I need every major civilization you have to offer. You're not losing my money, but you're losing a good chunk of my respect, and I'm losing a good chunk of my self-respect. Awesome.
     
  4. t0mme

    t0mme Great Red One

    Joined:
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    Making the Babylonian civ a paid extra is a downright insult to the loyal fanbase of Civ. I've bought every version of Civ (all twice in some way) and now I have to pay extra to get a civ which has always been a part Civilization. It feels totally stupid. And again, how viable are dlc's like that if we already have a magnificent modding community?
     
  5. Sareln

    Sareln Warlord

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    That's awful optimistic :dubious:- there are always bugs. In the balance, I'd prefer that if there's a gamebreaking bug, for there to be only one corporate bureaucracy to weave through.

    Now lets talk patches. I know that in the past, Firaxis has released patches that for one reason or another, I needed to slowroll. Either I was playing a tournament game, or wanted to finish a game I had started under the old patch. With steamworks integration, I can't do this - I'm playing the latest and greatest(?) version of the game, period. Heaven help me if the patch actually *breaks* something (say, for all ATI cards?).
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    We have already experienced exactly this when BtS 3.19 came out. Steam users were updated and could no longer play the mods. The mod community then scrambled to get the mods working with 3.19. It took awhile and there are still bits out there which have not been converted.
     
  7. guyfamous

    guyfamous Chieftain

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    As you can see by my post count, I don't often have much to say here, but here's my input on this issue.

    Unfortunately, I am in the group that will not be purchasing the game with Steam as a requirement. The reasons why have been explained far more eloquently, than I can express, by previous posters.

    I am the kind of customer that game companies need. I pre-ordered two copies of Civ 4 for each of my computers, even though I wouldn't be playing on my laptop for months. I purchased Chronicles even though I had multiple copies of all of the items in that set and never loaded any of the included games.

    As much as I love the Civilization series, I will not end up giving in and buying Civ V two weeks after the release because of good reviews or the posts I will see on this site. It is a non-issue for me now and I have no need to continue tracking Civ V news or following up in any way. I am sure I'll see information in PC Gamer and in some blogs I regularly read. Whatever.

    I will continue to play my modded Civ 4, unless they retroactively require Steam for that too.

    But for Civ V this just makes me sad.
     
  8. tiberion02

    tiberion02 Chieftain

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    Hey Steam, I have never used you, and all of my favorite games can be purchased through your incredibly user friendly interface, but :):):):) you anyway. I also hate sales! Why do you have sales all of the time -- IT'S TERRIBLE. I'll never play any video games ever again. I guess I'll have to go read a book, thanks for ruining my life STEAM.

    Christ I miss the old days where we weren't FORCED to download things, because who has a computer with an internet connection anyway? Get me an Apple II and Number Munchers before I hyperventilate.

    :aargh::mad::badcomp: STEAM :badcomp::mad::aargh:



    Edit: STEAM!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Just a passenger

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    In mods I trust.
     
  10. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING Supporter

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    I don't think it's a big deal. I've used Steam since HL2 and never had a problem.
     
  11. 2K Elizabeth

    2K Elizabeth <span style="font-weight:bold; text-decoration: un

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    Steam is part of our game - it is part of it whether you buy the game in a store or on Steam itself. If you have a specific question about how Steam works, please ask and I'll find you the answer if I don't know it off the top of my head, and I'm sorry if any of our statements have confused you. I'm happy to address all questions. :)
     
  12. Mathalamus

    Mathalamus Emperor of Mathalia

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    can you answer this one:

    will the ottoman's empire Capital start with Istanbul or Constantinople?
     
  13. isndl

    isndl Chieftain

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    Normally I just lurk in these forums, but the decision to integrate Steam into CiV concerns me enough that I've registered just to ask some questions:

    1. While Steam offers an offline mode, it appears to only function if I explicitly enter offline mode while I have an active internet connection. Given that I also have Valve games that I play online, it isn't likely that I'll enter offline mode frequently; will I be able to play CiV if I do not explicitly enter offline mode but lack an active internet connection? Currently, I cannot even start Steam without active internet, as it attempts to update when I start it and simply hangs there until it can contact the official servers (Steam is fully updated as well).

    2. Will CiV follow the standard Steam policy of requiring complete updates in most scenarios? In particular, will a fully updated game be required to play the game in offline mode, and will I be able to play multi-player games without having updated to the latest version? This is primarily a concern with updates breaking any mods I have installed and breaking compatibility with existing saves. In a similar vein, will there be any support for rolling back to a previous version, should I need to reinstall the game at a later date (so I may continue using any mods or saves I have backed up)?

    3. Will CiV use Steam to manage the installation of mods? I'm thinking primarily of something like the VPK system used for Left4Dead here, though there is a DLC tab for L4D2 as well (as far as I know however, it's only used for the pre-order baseball bat). I am mostly curious to know if a more formalized module installation system is in effect or being developed.

    4. Not a Steam question, but I'll ask anyways: Are Babylon assets included in non-deluxe installations? Obviously I wouldn't be able to play as Babylon without purchasing the deluxe version, but will I see Babylon in multi-player games? Will I see Babylon in single-player games? If Babylon assets are included in the non-deluxe version, will there be steps taken to prevent their usage in mods?

    That's all I have for now, though I might think of something later. Thank you for taking the time to respond to our questions.
     
  14. Kuutti

    Kuutti Chieftain

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    I once again fail to understand why publishers like 2k keep territorial pricing for online stores like Steam. In UK Steam Civ5 costs £30/£40 and in continental Europe 50&#8364;/60&#8364; while according to currency rates it should cost 35&#8364;/47&#8364;. That means UK Deluxe edition is cheaper than European standard edition. Luckily British retail stores ship to continental Europe too.
     
  15. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    I know many are deriding this decision, but I myself praise Firaxis!

    Using Steamworks is a very good decision. Steam is the least evil form of DRM, and still allows good distribution of mods, has a great UI, and works seamlessly in MP. Anyone who regularly uses steam knows that they provide quality service, and that all of the great things Steam provides greatly outwieghes any downsides (if there even are downsides).

    I approve of this decision. :goodjob:
     
  16. Le Sage

    Le Sage Emperor

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    What happens when Steam itself is no longer with us and the game won't work without it? I can still play and enjoy the epic Civ 1, twenty years on.

    There is no vision in a decision like this, making it Steam, and there seems to be no thought given at all to the historical game series Civilization actually is, since this decision seems to be aimed at satisfying short-term interests rather than the long-term visionary, artistic and epic.

    I thought CivV would be the next great Civ, but instead it now sadly seems like it is going to be some moneymilking beast that only draws some inspiration from great predecessors.

    I do not want any automated updates, I do not want extra content that I have to pay for and I certainly don't want to have to be hooked up to some Steam to play my Civilization.

    This very bad decision will alienate most of the trusty following Civ has right now, and make it so that we won't go beyond Civ4, and it seems I will be playing and modding Civ4 for a long time to come. It will perhaps attract a short-term following in players with low expectations who want a bit of graphics, leaderheads and Steam, but most of the fanatics will be turning away; we are not interested in short-term.

    I see 2k themselves take part in the debate here, so please ease my above worries, but I doubt you can. This all makes me quite steamed, actually.
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Totally agreed
    BTW here is a poll about this
    50% of the people claims here on CFC that he/she won't buy Civ V because of Steam...
    Nice move 2K!
     
  18. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    WTF?????????
    LOL
    They closed the thread and the poll because of a ridiculous reason
    Yeah right, triplicate threads was the reason. Good joke.
    Being afraid of the poll results? :p
     
  19. tiberion02

    tiberion02 Chieftain

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    1. I would be shocked to see Steam disappear in the next 10+ years due to its high profitability. However, Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve has stated that if Steam ever has to shut down that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works." Complaining that a game may not be available to play 10-20 years in the future is a pretty petty argument. It's like deciding not to buy a Zelda cartridge because the battery would eventually die.

    2. I don't understand the point of your second paragraph.

    3/4. Civ 5 as a game is going to be just as good as it was even without Steam. No fundamental gameplay mechanics are going to change. If you want to make the argument that 1 DLC civilization (and possibly more in the future) changes the core gameplay, I can agree with you here, and I also dislike the idea of paying for new civs/units outside of expansion packs like BtS (which is essentially 1 large DLC disk). Either way, this is not a Steam issue, it's a Firaxis/bottom line issue.

    5. Automated updates can be turned off. Offline mode can be used to make an internet connection unneccessary, you don't need to be 'hooked up' to Steam to play unless your playing multiplayer.

    6. I disagree with your assertion that huge swathes of Civilization players will stop playing due to this minor change, one which a large portion of the player base will probably support. I love Steam, I love Civ, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
     
  20. kroket

    kroket Warlord

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    Well i had a night to think about it and frankly this still gives me the jitters (just read 2-5 so forgive me if someone else asked this/pointed this out)

    1. Firaxis DOES NOT care about their customers. It's there. They DO NOT care at all. They care about MONEY that's it... Clearly they think the loss of revenue by making it steam-exclusive will be offset by the demonic DLC-content. ' Hey look it's been two months and we have got SPAIN just for you for 10$ go and buy everyone!!
    2. Compatibility?? User A has X, Y B has X, Z and C had Y, Z. Not going to work. Besides people will MODD it in (if there are decent mod possibilities at all with steam)
    3. Auto-update compatibility?? So i downloaded mod X and now i get patch 1.1... o o my mod doesn't work anymore!? THANKS Firaxis... As a rule anything that installs itself on my computer without me asking is a VIRUS!! Really!? What are they thinking?!? I want to DECIDE if i want an update or not, if it's a bad one i won't get it.
    4. Steam being the future... I am afraid so... I DO NOT WANT IT. PC games are played offline (by me) if you want to play online go ahead but it's everyone's choice.
    5. how do you buy this demonic DLC?! You need a CREDITCARD?? I don't have one and won't get one either.
    6. Piracy issues. Completely hyporetical and countereffective... Really i NEVER pirate games (as opposed to tv-series since you have to wait a year and have to watch at times you don't want with crappy subtitles that come across an image you want to see, you can't go back and can't watch as often as you want he) only games i ever 'pirated' where out of necessity (games from 90s i couldn't find anywhere) and football manager which some dude gave me once (wouldnt have bought it anyway otherways). I WILL however consider piracy as an option here if it can keep my system steamfree. So i would NEVER have pirated CIV5 and now i might --> Countereffective
    7. How does this steam work? Will it auto fire-up and auto-install and crash / slowdown my system?? Can i turn it OFF?! If i can turn it off and it won't run in the background i MIGHT consider it.
    Still it's a bonehead move and i wonder what Sid and the developers are thinking now?!
    Besided 255 reactions in a day?! That's not too good... We should be over 1000 now... Everyone express your discontent please!!
    I have nothing against steam just against compulsory steam...
     

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