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Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

Discussion in 'News Updates' started by V. Soma, May 6, 2010.

  1. White Elk

    White Elk 99 > 1

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    On another note: I had been pondering pre-ordering Civ5 through CivFanatics (via Amazon) to support this awesome site. I'm not likely to buy Civ5 now unless 2k/Firaxis commits to a validation fix in the event that Steam should stop supporting the game. But I wonder how many would be brick and mortar purchasers who had planned on buying through CFC, will now buy from Steam instead? How's this going to affect CFC's bottom line? And if the pre-order bonuses really are only available through a Steam purchase... how many more would be CFC supporters are lost?
     
  2. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    I don't like having a third-party program having to run every time I play a game, especially one that adds people spamming me to join stuff through messages frequently.

    I also dislike the fact that should Valve decide to do so, they can brick my game.
    They brick the games of people who put chargebacks on them. What if Valve overcharges me and refuses to fix it? That has happened to others.

    I also don't want a valve monopoly which would turn the pc into the overpricing schemes of consoles.

    Believe or disbelieve what you will, but those are my primary reasons.

    And not a single one of them will buy the game because it's exclusive to Steam. They'll be buying it because it's on Steam- they won't care what else it's on. There's a reason most companies want their games on as many platforms as possible.
     
  3. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    A) Pretty much all games sold in last 15 years are sold only as licenses - its just that untill recently they werent able to enforce it.

    B) 2 people playing on 2 PCs at the same time means (IMO) you should have 2 licenses. What you are saing is like saying that at work every PC can use same Windows 7 CD-key.
     
  4. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    White Elk, I'm borrowing your protest title. Hope you don't mind, and hope others do the same.
     
  5. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    1. Music etc. are only minor services for companies like Yahoo and MSN - they tried it, it likely wasnt very profitable so they killed it. Big difference is that For Yahoo it was insignificant part of company so it wasnt problem to cancel it. Games are for Steam their only business so they dont have any reason to stop providing games to their users. Also their main expense is server bandwith and as someone who work for major ISP I can tell you that bandwith is very very cheap (my estimate is 2 cents or less per GB).

    2. Steam is big fat target for long time and after Valves experience with HL2 I am sure they are really paranoid about hackers gaining access to their systems. Also I am sure that all consumer data are protected by at least 512bit encryption. For scammers its much easier to do normal phishing against normal Steam users.

    Only slow periods are during christmas sales because they sell so much games to their users. Sometimes when AAA game is released or when there is free weekend or at the start of big game preload servers are slow for few hours. Even when its "slow" I rarely see speeds under 500KB/s.

    3. Valve is often adding servers and increasing bandwith. Just in past 12 months they more than doubled their bandwith.
    look here for realitime stats of their servers:
    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/

    This is how their traffic looks like just after release of some game:

     
  6. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    This is a sad day for Civilization... The decline has begun.
     
  7. HamTard

    HamTard Warlord

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    For all you people so scared about a Steam monopoly, look at the iTunes App Store. It's the only way to buy apps on the iPhone, but that doesn't make it full of overpriced apps. Developers/Publishers still compete with each other, so they have to price aggressively if they want to make money. Games in particular drop in price every few months. There are games on the iPhone for $4.99 that are ports of $29.99 games on the Nintendo DS. Civilization Revolution is an example of that.

    Valve has stated time and time again that their data shows that putting games on sale results in greater profit. Also, pricing on Steam is set by Publishers, Valve doesn't tell them what to charge for their games. Every time a game goes on sale on Steam, it's because the Publisher has seen how successful sales were for other Publishers (such as Valve, leading by example), and so they are joining in on the action.

    If Steam became the only portal for PC games (won't ever happen but you paranoids trying hard to come up with reasons to hate it can keep saying it) EA would still be competing with Activision. THQ would still be competing with 2K. They would all still be trying to make money. Games that don't sell well at $50 go on sale quicker, and get permanent price drops quicker, regardless of where they are trying to sell them. If Steam really was the only portal for PC games, then all eyes would be on the Steam front page, which would make it much more enticing for a Publisher to put a game on sale to get attention away from a competing game.

    Speaking of Steam, why did the D2D sale of CivIV Complete for $10 get a front page post on this site, while the Steam weekend sale of CivIV Complete for $10 paired with the CivV Steamworks announcement didn't get a post? Does this site promote D2D for financial reasons?

    Moderator Action: Don't call other users names. Warned.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  8. Nictel

    Nictel Emperor

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    I guess you haven't bought Civ4 then. Or any other game in recent years? You always buy an license. The little thing you click yes to without reading it is called a License Agreement for a reason. Furthermore you always need to buy 2 copies if you want to install a game on more than 1 computer. Don't believe me? Take your Civ4 manual: Find the License Agreement, it's probably at the back. To quote:
    So Steam doesn't change that, it only forces you to obey the agreement. In a sense it stops you from breaking the law. Now for the requirement of a permanent internet connection, I know there are still uncivilised nations where there are things like data-caps and the unavailability of dsl. For those poor souls I agree that a hard copy should be available.
     
  9. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Please everyone use the edit post function if you want to add something to a post with no replies - I merged a bunch of posts again, and will at some point start handing out spam infractions for people who post multiple posts in a row

    There is no financial relation between D2D and this site that I am aware of and we did post steam sales in the past. I guess it got missed with the original posting and we don't have all that many front page staff here, and sometimes things take a few days to be picked up- You are welcome to point out any missing news here - just check the news submission category.
     
  10. Le Sage

    Le Sage Emperor

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    What do people in here actually mean when they say that you only buy a license to play a game when you buy it from Steam? That you don't buy the game, you buy a license? I bought Civ III from them and I have all the files on my computer. I can mod it and it all works fine. I don't even have to be attached to Steam to play it. In my eyes, I have Civilization III for sure, but have I been conned? Please someone explain what is meant with "you only buy a license to play it".
     
  11. HamTard

    HamTard Warlord

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    You have nothing to worry about. EVERY software you buy is only considered a "license", because the developer still owns the code. I can still play games I bought on Steam 3 years ago with no problems.

    Sorry about that, I usually read through a thread and reply to some posts in the order that I read them. By the time I get to the end to see my posts, sometimes nobody has posted in between them.
     
  12. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

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    As with any software you buy a license to use 1 copy of the software. The only difference I see is that this isn't a physical copy where you get the files to use their license. Unless you back it up on DVD of course, then there aren't any differences whatsoever anymore. It just comes up cause they're trying to cling to any uninformed point to 'hate' things they don't know.

    Anyway, you can buy a disc with the files to install on so there's really no difference from the beginning. You just have to pass steam once to validate and that's it. If they really want to break the license that's on any game ever, they can play their LAN games with one copy in offline mode probably. It's sad that everyone's getting all hostile on not being able to illegally use one copy for something you have to have 2 copies for, like it's always been. Real Civ fans, I see.
     
  13. HamTard

    HamTard Warlord

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    I hope they tell us if this game will support Steam Cloud. Steam Cloud is a feature that lets you sync your save games with Steam, so that if you have your game installed on multiple computers, when you play on one of your other computers it syncs and you can continue from the same save game. I would imagine that it would be particularly useful for long games like Civ5, especially for people who switch between a desktop and laptop for travel. Hotels all have free wifi now, and a save file is probably only a few KB to sync.
     
  14. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Would that be like AC2's brainless system where you had no access to your save files and had to remain on-line permanently? There is a very good reason that I never bought Mass Effect for the PC and why I have no intention of buying Civ V unless it suddenly becomes very cheap.
     
  15. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

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    They're still on your computer, it basically saves a backup online for when you play the game at another computer. So you don't have to take the saves with you yourself.

    It adds something, doesn't take anything away. So far your 'very good reason'. Shame you don't actually research anything you rage on, Mass Effect was pretty good (edit: and a little searching reveals it doesn't even use steam cloud or anything similar. They're just saved locally). And I don't understand why you would buy Civ V when it's cheap? You'll still have to install steam you know. So in that case you'll support steam but not the developers much.
     
  16. n12m13

    n12m13 Chieftain

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    Hey guys. I haven't read through this discussion all the way, but I'd like to offer my viewpoint on this issue.

    First, I have to say that I really like Steam. It's not a perfect service, but the easy purchasing of games, community features, quick updates and more have been great. I like that I can talk to my friends while in games and that I can use my games on other computers easily, and I can even play on my account at friend's houses with no hassle. Sure I've experienced a minor delay here and there because certain parts of Steam were down, but I imagine that especially with a generally offline game like Civilization V, this will not be an issue. Because of this, I will have absolutely no problem purchasing Civilization V.

    However, I agree that it seems a little silly to force users into using Steam in order to play. I realize there are people who don't own a single other game on Steam and have no friends who use the service, and thus they really lose a lot of the benefits that Steam has to offer. There are others, as evidenced by this thread, that object on moral grounds. Therefore I hope that 2KGames will come to reverse their position, using Steam as an optional distribution and drm method.

    Finally, I'd like to address the point about using the game on two computers at once. No, I cannot conceive that it will be possible with Steam. On the other hand, for a long while now (for most games), you have legally needed to buy two copies of the game in order to play on LAN with a friend/family member.
     
  17. mamba

    mamba Deity

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    There is no difference between buying a game on Steam or in a shop. In both cases you buy a license, in both cases you have all game files, the difference is the means of distributing the game files.

    If you read the license agreements (guess why they are called that...), you will find that for any software you buy, you buy a license to use it, not the software itself. So you are theoretically not allowed to do certain things to the software that you wold be entitled to do if you outright owned it.

    For almost all intents and purposes the difference is negligable. You may not reverse-engineer the software and create your own version which you then sell (think of building a muscle car from a regular one and then selling it). You may not rent the software for money to others, stuff like that. If you owned the software and not a license, you would be allowed to do so.

    You still have a physical copy, it just is on your HD instead of on a DVD.
     
  18. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Well, I find the start menu annoying. :lol:
    If you're serious you use quick launch and other methods instead of the horridly slow and fiddly start menu. ;)

    Hmmm. Are you assuming that if Civ5 were not Steam exclusive, that it would not be available on Steam at all? Remember that Civ4 was available on Steam AND available at the retail store. Therefore, the Steam users should have found it.

    Of course the game will gain customers through advertising in Steam. It's always hard to quantitatively measure "lost" sales however. Parents might look at the box for civ5 in the store, note that it requires Steam in order to play and exclaim "Damn, Johnnie's computer runs on electricity!" :p
     
  19. Le Sage

    Le Sage Emperor

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    Thanks for calming me down there. That argument ("You're only buying a license and not the game") was taken as an input in the discussion here and I got quite mixed up. Thinking about it - of course, I'm not buying a game, but rather the rights to use it. It is pretty logical.

    Why does this discussion have to have such a lot of crappy disinformation? Get informed, guys, before you debate! If you don't know, ask! Sometimes this discussion gives the impression that Steam is the Great Conspiracy of Evil and the New World Order of the Antichrist here.

    I have changed my mind about Steam. It will perhaps have implications on the game that I don't care for, but it still gave me Civilization III and at a very cheap price too. It is the future of game distribution, and it will be included in civ5, so I am dealing with it and exploring it with an open mind. Although I think there are other aspects of Steam that can certainly be better and even taken away in some cases, Steam is certainly not the Antichrist.
     
  20. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    :D
    Seriously, the best summary I've read over several days.
     

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