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Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

Discussion in 'News Updates' started by V. Soma, May 6, 2010.

  1. Rub'Rum

    Rub'Rum Hates acronyms

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,582
    Location:
    Québec
    Oh... my... God... I'll just... No. NO.

    Remember when you could sit in your house on the sofa playing Beat'em ups with your friends on your Nintendo or Sega Genesis? Remember GoldenEye? Remember the fun?

    Now in this day and age, even console multiplayer games try to screw us over by making it impossible to coop on the same machine, in many games. Like GTA IV on consoles. Why the hell didn't they try to make a couch-coop mode seriously... Enforcing the multi-copies to make more money oh yeaaaah. Can only play the arena mode in multiplayer on Hunter Monster Tri on the Wii, main game multiplayer can only be played through multiple copies, on different TV sets... Probably different houses too. Game companies, helping us sitting alone in our living room since 2002. You can bring up maybe "oh it's because the game can't run two screens, heavy computing load you know", well that's bull, because there ARE (thankfully) rare examples where they worked to insert a couch-same-room multiplayer (ex: console Left 4 Dead).

    Don't encourage this trend please. Look at Warcraft 2 and old PC games, they even had "spawn" installations to ensure that you could play multiplayer games with 1 copy Some companies still try to help us here. Sacred 2 for instance had the capability to have 2 PCs playing together with one copy, a game that came out in 2009 I believe. But that's still an arbitrary 2 machines limit.

    I don't understand a customer who goes out and says "You know how good you used to treat us? Well I forgot about that and here, I bend over for you, I don't care anymore since I'm an adult and make money".

    Anyway, if Civ is the only game you ever play I would understand maaaaaybe that you wouldn't mind buying two copies of a game (which isn't an OS that you constantly need to use a computer, jaysus what a crap comparison). But if you're really into games and buy a lot of them (I buy several every month), having to buy 2 copies of a game that arbitrarily decide you can't play LAN until you do so, well that's just ... No.
     
  2. myturn

    myturn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
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    45
    ahahaha :D :thumbsup:
     
  3. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Are you trying to defend the "must be online and game crashes if you're not" decision?

    As for ME1, I passed on that because the Internet activation, limited installation and inability to play unless you regularly activated the game. They have slightly improved the DRM since, but that's why I didn't buy it.

    I'm also not going to pretend that I don't want the game, but if my game is going to be at the sole control of Valve, I will wait until it's cheap enough to justify the potential risk. This punishes Firaxis as well as 2K, but it was 2K's decision and I have the absolute right to choose when and where I spend my money.
     
  4. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    394
    When I read about civ5 I thought "wow, I'm nowhere near done with civ4 and they are already close to release of civ5 - isn't life great ?".
    Now I will just wait until either I get bored with civ4 (if that's possible) or they release civ5 in a normal non-offensive manner.

    Another way to look at this: to my mind civ2 and civ4 were games that really worked in all aspects from day one. Whereas in between there was a lot of experimenting, first with Alpha Centauri, then "Call to Power", finally ending up with civ3, a game that had a lot of interesting new things but also some that didn't work so well.

    So maybe it's a law of civ that after a game as perfect as civ4, there has to be a fase of experimenting with new things, some of which are not well thought out.
     
  5. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
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    150
    Location:
    Belgium
    Uhm, no? That's not at all what steam cloud does, or steam for that matter. Steam cloud just syncs your local files so they're accessible anywhere. When offline, you'll use your local files.

    Yes I can understand that, if they'd went with steam works instead of that other DRM though you wouldn't have had these problems. That's my point. I'm no fan of any DRM, but steam has found a great solution to the normal DRM crap. It gives a non-invasive DRM and in return gives many great features. If you don't use most of those features, fine, but at least it's better than any other DRM scheme. A one time internet activation only, and steam doesn't restrict how much or on how many computers you install.

    Valve has no control over anything without the publisher's permission, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
     
  6. syllogism

    syllogism Chieftain

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    Mar 18, 2007
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    See, this is the normal, non-offensive manner to everyone but a few uninformed or stubborn individuals at these forums
     
  7. mamba

    mamba Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
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    2,520
    That would be Ubisoft, not Steam, and because of that I no longer buy anything from them. For Steam this is not true however, you download the game online, you even can play offline if you wanted to (but my PC is online at all times, so I do not set it to offline in Steam).
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    I was talking about the Assassins' Creed idiocy, not Steam then. As I've said, I have nothing against download managers and electronic-only games, but I resent being forced to do that with a monopoly, let alone the cut-throat commercial angle of the "bonus" DLC. Also, I prefer to make sure that I only buy cheap electronic games, as I insist on old-fashioned hard copies of manuals and DVDs for a full-price game.
     
  9. AZSportsFan

    AZSportsFan Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
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    107
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Order your copy through Amazon or a brick-and-mortar. Then you get your manual (hopefully it is a good one - manuals have been crap lately!) and your DVDs, and you don't even need to use the DVD. Enter the code into Steam - and you have the "best of both worlds". You download/update/manage the game through Steam, and you have your manual. Of course, if the Babylonian stuff interests you, then unless they make that available singly or through a hard copy, the foregoing is moot. ;)
     
  10. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
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    So? I still have to drive around with my computer for 80 miles in order to be able to even install it. Does that make sense?
     
  11. Eejit

    Eejit Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Do you also have to drive around with your computer for 80 miles to post here?
     
  12. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

    Joined:
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    I'll just quote Bad Brett from an earlier post so he doesn't have to do it:

    Obviously, he has more than one computer.
     
  13. Born Acorn

    Born Acorn Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
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    MSN and Yahoo Music were owned by large, ubiquitous corporations that make these sorts of decisions based on line graphs and profit:loss ratios. The decisions to close these were probably a footnote at the end of a weekly meeting. Valve doesn't have any scary parents that will make these decisions. It was a developer of games, and still is, and is also very much in touch with what its community wants - The newest version of Steam was put together with a lot of suggestions from the Steam forums, and the developers even post there!

    To address the hackers point; Call of Duty 2: Modern Warfare 2 is the most popular game in the history of games. The PC version also has Steamworks integration, for both digital and retail versions. The increased load on the servers and user base didn't cause any sort of successful hacking attempt; The world didn't even end or anything!
     
  14. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

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    No. I also don't play games on my work computer. Shouldn't I be able to decide on which computer I want to install the game on? Really, what is it that you people don't get? I'm sure Steam has tons of great feature that I would love, but that's not the point. The point is that I won't be able to play a game that I would like to play.

    The usual explaination is that the companies are forced to do this because of PIRACY. Well... No. It may take a couple of days, but then there will be a Steam-free version out on the Internet, available for download. In other words, those who don't pay, will be able to enjoy the game without Steam.

    2K Games of course, realise this. They know that most hardcore fans will buy the game legally and aren't to concerned about some kids downloading it for free. It's great marketing and these people may eventually buy in it in order to be able to play online. So what's the point?

    It's spelled C-O-N-T-R-O-L. They will know when you play, how often you play, what kind of system you use, what kind of Internet connection you use, which OS you use...
    It allows them to have complete control over the market.

    What I would like to do, is to send 60 dollars straight to Firaxis via PayPal, then download a cracked version of the game. This way I would be able to play the game on my own computer and still support the real developers. Sadly, this would still be against the law.
     
  15. CivFanMUC

    CivFanMUC Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Germany
    Great Idea. @2K_Elizabeth - could you (and your company) live with this? ;-)
     
  16. lobosan

    lobosan Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    100
    I agree. Any digital distribution monopoly would turn my PC in just an other console and reduce competition. Don't even get me started on DLCs.
    I feel punished for being a good customer with loss of freedom. I'll have to wait until the opportunity cost is low enough before I am willing to buy Civ V. Christmas sale 2011, here I come! :)
     
  17. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Formerly: Missouri, USA
    Answer:
    A license:
    ... 1) Allows use of someone else's property.
    ... 2) Can be revoked.
    ... ... Denying use of someone else's property.
    ... 3) Is both blessing and curse.

    Personal Example:
    I bought a license for video editing software.
    Thirty days later
    ... the company,
    ... from whom, I had purchased the software,
    ... lost their license,
    ... for the video codecs they were using.
    When I turned on my computer,
    ... it connected to their site,
    ... promptly cancelled my license
    ... then destructively
    ... ... deleted the revoked files.
    Internet connection was required
    ... to use their software
    ... for this exact reason.
    They need
    ... to protect their license
    ... of intellectual property.
    The software is now a very, very, expensive coaster.
    I respect a company's need to protect their product,
    ... but this was a professional example.

    With Civ
    ... we are the consumer of the final product.
    License revocation should end
    ... with the company making the product
    ... NOT with the user using the product.

    In practice, however ...
    ... the company protects itself,
    ... and in so doing,
    ... bites the hand that feeds it.

    As a player base we can:
    ... a) stop supporting this business model.
    ... b) learn to enjoy being financially raped.

    note:
    Not everything written
    ... in a product license
    ... is legally enforceable.
    Having recently won a lawsuit,
    ... regarding a software license,
    ... I can state that companies:
    ... wrongfully threaten consumers
    ... ... with legal action
    ... try to intimidate consumers
    ... ... into submission,
    ... forcefully imply
    ... ... consumers have no rights
    ... ... to do such-and-such.
    If you are
    ... in disagreement
    ... with a company's product license,
    ... please, seek legal advice.
     
  18. epsylon

    epsylon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    I hope the modding community and mod support for Civ IV will not die after the release of Civ V.
     
  19. Eejit

    Eejit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
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    82
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Quite easily remedied by one use of an external hard drive or a sufficiently large USB memory stick.
     
  20. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Formerly: Missouri, USA
    You would need the registry entries.
    Differences in the system configs could void the DRM license.
     

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