Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition
- Thread starter V. Soma
- Start date
RD-BH
Human
Liberalism
Renaissance Era
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
- Benjamin Franklin
Renaissance Era
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
- Benjamin Franklin
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Interesting. I, like several other fellows with limited posts, am a lurker. I post little (as evident), am polite in forum courtesy, and generally try to go by a "live and let live" policy. In addition, I have been a civ player since Civ I has come out, and have used it's capabilities to assist 2 of my 4 boys to pass history and geography in order to graduate high school (yes, I am that old). But in this particular scenario, I must admit my dismay at the course Firaxis has chosen. Let's see if I can recap, and clarify Ms. 2KElizibeth's threads in order to assist my misgivings.
1) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You most definitely do not have to be online all the time for Civ V - don't worry about that.
According to Steam, it will be running in the background. So in effect, I am online all the time. It would be similar to when I caught my kid Dl'ng fm a torrent and seeding.
2)Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You'll have to activate the game on installation, so yes, you'll need an internet connection once.
Why? I shell out $60 for a brand new game, I should be able to play said game w/o having to create an account at some 3rd party site in order to play SP. In addition, said 3rd party site now has basically taken control of my new purchase, and has total control over when I am allowed to play it. Said site also has the right to thoroughly limit my ability for myself and kids to play my nice new purchase unless I connect to the internet for updates. This borders on the realm of legalized extortion.
3) Quote:
As for playing the game in the future, I think Firaxis is an awesome example of a dev who is committed to their fans ... We know that, and we don't want that to change.
Your statement is contradictory. By forcing us to accept Steam, you are forcing the fans to accept your changes whether they want it or not.
4) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
In this instance, we do care. The dev team (I'm sure you are aware) read this place all the time, as do I. Your opinions are very important to us - which is one of the reasons I'm here so much today. This is an important discussion.Steam is definitely in this game, yes, but the decision wasn't made in a vacuum and input from fans on many forums over many months helped inform it. And we're always looking for ways to do things better, so what you are saying is important for me. While making a version compiled specifically for each individual's needs isn't realistic, you guys can give us good ideas on what to do better. And, most importantly, I'm here right now to try and explain anything about Steam you might not know or understand.
Ok, what other members of the dev team? I have only seen you in any significant quantity on these forums. "here so much today" -- ok, your definition of "much" is a bit overstated madam, and no offense, you have merely stated the corporate viewpoint on the supposed benefits of Steam as opposed to any possible problems your fans may encounter.
What input did we fans have about including Steam as a MANDATORY requirement for playing CivV? What forums, what polls, what data are you including in this statement? and what is the source of your information? In addition, you really haven't explained anything about forcing your fans to accept Steam, even after several pointed queries from individuals in this thread.
5) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
The Deluxe Edition extras are just that - extras for the expanded version (and it's not just the extra Civ - the behind the scenes and soundtrack are pretty sweet to.) Beyond that, we haven't talked about any post-release plans quite yet. I would like to hear your thoughts though!
IMHO, an additional way to crank out any additional funds for a civ that should already ( and has always been since civ I) be included into the original package. You may want to hear our thoughts ma'am, but clearly they are irrelavant.
6)Originally Posted by Sheershaw
Hey 2K rep, can you answer me this? What is up with that stupid Digital Deluxe crap? That is such a ing rip-off. You cut out one of the leaders from the main game and include him in the deluxe pack, include a "bonus" soundtrack that you get when you install the game anyways and look into the game files, and the videos are of no use to me, all for a price of 10 dollars more. In my mind, I am playing $10 for the privilege of playing as Babylon, one of the most basic civs in Civilization that has been included since the beginning.
You say 2K listens to gamers, yet that is complete and utter bull. Why in the world would you cut content out of the game and sell it separately if you really cared about gamers? This reeks of some executive who thinks we are just walking wallets and not human beings. I do not think anyone said "HEY! CUT CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME AND SELL IT SEPARATELY!" And if they did, I want you to point me towards them.
I do not care about Steam. It's the DLC and locking content out that bothers me. If it is not removed (like 2K will listen to me), I am not buying Civ V. Instead, I'm warning people not to buy it, because if they do, they'll be supporting a faceless, greedy corporation that does not care in the slightest about the wants and needs of gamers.
Don't worry, I know this message will be promptly ignored. And if it isn't, don't say something like "oh its an extra." An "extra" would be those videos. An extra would be a poster. An extra would be something cool, yet trivial, and something that wouldn't decrease the value of the game.
I don't ignore things like this, don't worry (although the copious smiley faces replacing some of your choice words made me distracted!)
There isn't a ton of info out on the game so far, so I understand some of you are wary, but we have a lot of civs in the game and the regular edition is anything but lacking features, civs, and gameplay. I don't think there's any way I can convince you the bonus content is that - extra - instead of something cut, so I hope when more details come out about Civilization V you'll understand than you will have oodles to do and many civs to master even if you don't want to grab the edition with Babylon in it. I also understand if behind-the-scenes videos or the music isn't your cup of tea, either - but I know that some people really do value that stuff, and for them, I hope they like it. But that's why it's optional - we want to give people choice.
Again you contradict yourself. You state that your company is all about giving it's fans a choice to whether they want the additional content, but on the otherside of the coin your saying that you have absolutely no choice in the matter of how you would like to play your game. You state that Steam is the requirement in order to play Civ5, irregardless of the fact that you've plopped down $60 bucks and have no way to play the game unless you sign up for 3rd party software-- again, basic legalized extortion.
7)Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You'll have to activate the game on installation, so yes, you'll need an internet connection once
Why? I pay my hard earned money to play a franchise that acually has been enjoyable over the years and now your telling me I will not be able play even SP unless I do what you dictate. So as a customer, I am not actually getting what i'm paying for. You have taken that option away. You are now forcing customers to add additional items to his or her shopping cart when thay do not want to.
8) Quote:
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
Steam is part of our game - it is part of it whether you buy the game in a store or on Steam itself. If you have a specific question about how Steam works, please ask and I'll find you the answer if I don't know it off the top of my head, and I'm sorry if any of our statements have confused you. I'm happy to address all questions.
And yet you have repeatedly refused to answer direct questions put to you on this board from several individuals. At least you have clarified that no matter what the customer wants from his or her purchase, you are quite willing to do whatever you want as a company.
9)Quote:
Originally Posted by isndl
1. While Steam offers an offline mode, it appears to only function if I explicitly enter offline mode while I have an active internet connection. Given that I also have Valve games that I play online, it isn't likely that I'll enter offline mode frequently; will I be able to play CiV if I do not explicitly enter offline mode but lack an active internet connection? Currently, I cannot even start Steam without active internet, as it attempts to update when I start it and simply hangs there until it can contact the official servers (Steam is fully updated as well).
Yes, I believe you should be able to without an internet connection. The game will function like other games that use Steam - you will have to be in offline mode, but you will be able to play. I'm not sure exactly why your Steam account is doing what it's doing, though, so tonight I'm going to test a variety of games on my account and see how exactly offline mode works without internet connection. But while you need Steam for the game, you can play offline.
2. Will CiV follow the standard Steam policy of requiring complete updates in most scenarios? In particular, will a fully updated game be required to play the game in offline mode, and will I be able to play multi-player games without having updated to the latest version? This is primarily a concern with updates breaking any mods I have installed and breaking compatibility with existing saves. In a similar vein, will there be any support for rolling back to a previous version, should I need to reinstall the game at a later date (so I may continue using any mods or saves I have backed up)?
One of the things I know we are striving for is a cohesive and better experience with mods - so this is something again I have to ask more about, but I know we're aiming to have the game be up-to-date AND the mods still work. Again, this is something I'll have to test personally - I believe I've played offline without updating, but until I check it out myself right now, I don't want to vouch for my memory.
I'll also have more info on how patching will work (and the modding scene in general) in the coming weeks and months. But as I said before, we are very dedicated to the community. It's a priority for me to make sure those elements work well.
3. Will CiV use Steam to manage the installation of mods? I'm thinking primarily of something like the VPK system used for Left4Dead here, though there is a DLC tab for L4D2 as well (as far as I know however, it's only used for the pre-order baseball bat). I am mostly curious to know if a more formalized module installation system is in effect or being developed.
Again, I think that over the coming weeks and months as we explain exactly how the ins and outs of the system works for you, this will become clear. I have some big features planned. These questions are already en route to being answered for you!
4. Not a Steam question, but I'll ask anyways: Are Babylon assets included in non-deluxe installations? Obviously I wouldn't be able to play as Babylon without purchasing the deluxe version, but will I see Babylon in multi-player games? Will I see Babylon in single-player games? If Babylon assets are included in the non-deluxe version, will there be steps taken to prevent their usage in mods?
I'll get back to you on this one. I don't know!
1a) Your quote " I believe" is surprising. As your a rep for your company, shouldn't you have access to the information being requested? Additionally, Steam still requires you to update in order to play your game even in offline mode. To an even further extent, we are now held hostage at Steam's whim in order to play. Even after proof of purchase has been verified.
2b) Why would you need to play to verify? you should have all the pertinent info available, or at least be able to ask someone. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as to your commitment, but continuous spouting the corporate line is rapidly degrading that willingness.
3c) Again, lacking in any type of cohesive explanation. Merely spouting the corporate line.
4d) This at least is an open honest answer, and I appreciate your stating the facts.
10) In conclusion, your corporation has stated it's intentions quite clear in that what the customer wants is not what they are going to get. Firaxis has deliberately made a choice that the bottom dollar is more important than what the loyal following of a long and award winning franchise has come to expect from its distinguished 20 year history.
As a consumer, when I make a purchase of an item I expect what I pay for. Now your telling me that because your corporation has decided in it's infinite wisdom that they know better than the customer does, that they are going to make that choice for us.
I am deeply saddened by this total lack of consideration on the part of Firaxis/2K games. That you have chosen this path in this time when people actually care where their hard earned dollars are spent, clearly demonstrates that you have lost touch with your loyal fans who have stood by you through the years.
Now madam, if you have any actual information, evidence, or other sufficient documented evidence that states that I am required to give up my purchase of Civ 5 in order to play it on SP when that's what I purchase it for to a 3rd party vendor, by all means show me, and i'll be happy to converse with you in this or any other forum that you so desire. But until then, I remain unconvinced that any further purchases of the Civ franchise beyond IV and it's add-ons will be worth my time and most especially, my money.
Have a pleasant day, and I look forward to any continuing conversations...
Drak
1) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You most definitely do not have to be online all the time for Civ V - don't worry about that.
According to Steam, it will be running in the background. So in effect, I am online all the time. It would be similar to when I caught my kid Dl'ng fm a torrent and seeding.
2)Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You'll have to activate the game on installation, so yes, you'll need an internet connection once.
Why? I shell out $60 for a brand new game, I should be able to play said game w/o having to create an account at some 3rd party site in order to play SP. In addition, said 3rd party site now has basically taken control of my new purchase, and has total control over when I am allowed to play it. Said site also has the right to thoroughly limit my ability for myself and kids to play my nice new purchase unless I connect to the internet for updates. This borders on the realm of legalized extortion.
3) Quote:
As for playing the game in the future, I think Firaxis is an awesome example of a dev who is committed to their fans ... We know that, and we don't want that to change.
Your statement is contradictory. By forcing us to accept Steam, you are forcing the fans to accept your changes whether they want it or not.
4) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
In this instance, we do care. The dev team (I'm sure you are aware) read this place all the time, as do I. Your opinions are very important to us - which is one of the reasons I'm here so much today. This is an important discussion.Steam is definitely in this game, yes, but the decision wasn't made in a vacuum and input from fans on many forums over many months helped inform it. And we're always looking for ways to do things better, so what you are saying is important for me. While making a version compiled specifically for each individual's needs isn't realistic, you guys can give us good ideas on what to do better. And, most importantly, I'm here right now to try and explain anything about Steam you might not know or understand.
Ok, what other members of the dev team? I have only seen you in any significant quantity on these forums. "here so much today" -- ok, your definition of "much" is a bit overstated madam, and no offense, you have merely stated the corporate viewpoint on the supposed benefits of Steam as opposed to any possible problems your fans may encounter.
What input did we fans have about including Steam as a MANDATORY requirement for playing CivV? What forums, what polls, what data are you including in this statement? and what is the source of your information? In addition, you really haven't explained anything about forcing your fans to accept Steam, even after several pointed queries from individuals in this thread.
5) Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
The Deluxe Edition extras are just that - extras for the expanded version (and it's not just the extra Civ - the behind the scenes and soundtrack are pretty sweet to.) Beyond that, we haven't talked about any post-release plans quite yet. I would like to hear your thoughts though!
IMHO, an additional way to crank out any additional funds for a civ that should already ( and has always been since civ I) be included into the original package. You may want to hear our thoughts ma'am, but clearly they are irrelavant.
6)Originally Posted by Sheershaw
Hey 2K rep, can you answer me this? What is up with that stupid Digital Deluxe crap? That is such a ing rip-off. You cut out one of the leaders from the main game and include him in the deluxe pack, include a "bonus" soundtrack that you get when you install the game anyways and look into the game files, and the videos are of no use to me, all for a price of 10 dollars more. In my mind, I am playing $10 for the privilege of playing as Babylon, one of the most basic civs in Civilization that has been included since the beginning.
You say 2K listens to gamers, yet that is complete and utter bull. Why in the world would you cut content out of the game and sell it separately if you really cared about gamers? This reeks of some executive who thinks we are just walking wallets and not human beings. I do not think anyone said "HEY! CUT CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME AND SELL IT SEPARATELY!" And if they did, I want you to point me towards them.
I do not care about Steam. It's the DLC and locking content out that bothers me. If it is not removed (like 2K will listen to me), I am not buying Civ V. Instead, I'm warning people not to buy it, because if they do, they'll be supporting a faceless, greedy corporation that does not care in the slightest about the wants and needs of gamers.
Don't worry, I know this message will be promptly ignored. And if it isn't, don't say something like "oh its an extra." An "extra" would be those videos. An extra would be a poster. An extra would be something cool, yet trivial, and something that wouldn't decrease the value of the game.
I don't ignore things like this, don't worry (although the copious smiley faces replacing some of your choice words made me distracted!)
There isn't a ton of info out on the game so far, so I understand some of you are wary, but we have a lot of civs in the game and the regular edition is anything but lacking features, civs, and gameplay. I don't think there's any way I can convince you the bonus content is that - extra - instead of something cut, so I hope when more details come out about Civilization V you'll understand than you will have oodles to do and many civs to master even if you don't want to grab the edition with Babylon in it. I also understand if behind-the-scenes videos or the music isn't your cup of tea, either - but I know that some people really do value that stuff, and for them, I hope they like it. But that's why it's optional - we want to give people choice.
Again you contradict yourself. You state that your company is all about giving it's fans a choice to whether they want the additional content, but on the otherside of the coin your saying that you have absolutely no choice in the matter of how you would like to play your game. You state that Steam is the requirement in order to play Civ5, irregardless of the fact that you've plopped down $60 bucks and have no way to play the game unless you sign up for 3rd party software-- again, basic legalized extortion.
7)Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
You'll have to activate the game on installation, so yes, you'll need an internet connection once
Why? I pay my hard earned money to play a franchise that acually has been enjoyable over the years and now your telling me I will not be able play even SP unless I do what you dictate. So as a customer, I am not actually getting what i'm paying for. You have taken that option away. You are now forcing customers to add additional items to his or her shopping cart when thay do not want to.
8) Quote:
Originally Posted by 2K Elizabeth
Steam is part of our game - it is part of it whether you buy the game in a store or on Steam itself. If you have a specific question about how Steam works, please ask and I'll find you the answer if I don't know it off the top of my head, and I'm sorry if any of our statements have confused you. I'm happy to address all questions.
And yet you have repeatedly refused to answer direct questions put to you on this board from several individuals. At least you have clarified that no matter what the customer wants from his or her purchase, you are quite willing to do whatever you want as a company.
9)Quote:
Originally Posted by isndl
1. While Steam offers an offline mode, it appears to only function if I explicitly enter offline mode while I have an active internet connection. Given that I also have Valve games that I play online, it isn't likely that I'll enter offline mode frequently; will I be able to play CiV if I do not explicitly enter offline mode but lack an active internet connection? Currently, I cannot even start Steam without active internet, as it attempts to update when I start it and simply hangs there until it can contact the official servers (Steam is fully updated as well).
Yes, I believe you should be able to without an internet connection. The game will function like other games that use Steam - you will have to be in offline mode, but you will be able to play. I'm not sure exactly why your Steam account is doing what it's doing, though, so tonight I'm going to test a variety of games on my account and see how exactly offline mode works without internet connection. But while you need Steam for the game, you can play offline.
2. Will CiV follow the standard Steam policy of requiring complete updates in most scenarios? In particular, will a fully updated game be required to play the game in offline mode, and will I be able to play multi-player games without having updated to the latest version? This is primarily a concern with updates breaking any mods I have installed and breaking compatibility with existing saves. In a similar vein, will there be any support for rolling back to a previous version, should I need to reinstall the game at a later date (so I may continue using any mods or saves I have backed up)?
One of the things I know we are striving for is a cohesive and better experience with mods - so this is something again I have to ask more about, but I know we're aiming to have the game be up-to-date AND the mods still work. Again, this is something I'll have to test personally - I believe I've played offline without updating, but until I check it out myself right now, I don't want to vouch for my memory.
I'll also have more info on how patching will work (and the modding scene in general) in the coming weeks and months. But as I said before, we are very dedicated to the community. It's a priority for me to make sure those elements work well.
3. Will CiV use Steam to manage the installation of mods? I'm thinking primarily of something like the VPK system used for Left4Dead here, though there is a DLC tab for L4D2 as well (as far as I know however, it's only used for the pre-order baseball bat). I am mostly curious to know if a more formalized module installation system is in effect or being developed.
Again, I think that over the coming weeks and months as we explain exactly how the ins and outs of the system works for you, this will become clear. I have some big features planned. These questions are already en route to being answered for you!
4. Not a Steam question, but I'll ask anyways: Are Babylon assets included in non-deluxe installations? Obviously I wouldn't be able to play as Babylon without purchasing the deluxe version, but will I see Babylon in multi-player games? Will I see Babylon in single-player games? If Babylon assets are included in the non-deluxe version, will there be steps taken to prevent their usage in mods?
I'll get back to you on this one. I don't know!
1a) Your quote " I believe" is surprising. As your a rep for your company, shouldn't you have access to the information being requested? Additionally, Steam still requires you to update in order to play your game even in offline mode. To an even further extent, we are now held hostage at Steam's whim in order to play. Even after proof of purchase has been verified.
2b) Why would you need to play to verify? you should have all the pertinent info available, or at least be able to ask someone. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as to your commitment, but continuous spouting the corporate line is rapidly degrading that willingness.
3c) Again, lacking in any type of cohesive explanation. Merely spouting the corporate line.
4d) This at least is an open honest answer, and I appreciate your stating the facts.
10) In conclusion, your corporation has stated it's intentions quite clear in that what the customer wants is not what they are going to get. Firaxis has deliberately made a choice that the bottom dollar is more important than what the loyal following of a long and award winning franchise has come to expect from its distinguished 20 year history.
As a consumer, when I make a purchase of an item I expect what I pay for. Now your telling me that because your corporation has decided in it's infinite wisdom that they know better than the customer does, that they are going to make that choice for us.
I am deeply saddened by this total lack of consideration on the part of Firaxis/2K games. That you have chosen this path in this time when people actually care where their hard earned dollars are spent, clearly demonstrates that you have lost touch with your loyal fans who have stood by you through the years.
Now madam, if you have any actual information, evidence, or other sufficient documented evidence that states that I am required to give up my purchase of Civ 5 in order to play it on SP when that's what I purchase it for to a 3rd party vendor, by all means show me, and i'll be happy to converse with you in this or any other forum that you so desire. But until then, I remain unconvinced that any further purchases of the Civ franchise beyond IV and it's add-ons will be worth my time and most especially, my money.
Have a pleasant day, and I look forward to any continuing conversations...
Drak
RD-BH
Human
Rebel44 said:
I take exception to this remark.
I would never vote for another human to rule over me.
Nick Danger
Steam should be optional
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2006
- Messages
- 83
Many companies value having good will with customers. Over the past almost 20 years the Civ series has earned a lot of good will with me with quality products and great support/consideration for us customers.
Forcing steamworks on us has cost most if not all of that good will. It's not just this action in itself, but it's a sign how how they've changed direction -- away from customer first to them first at our expense. That they're trying to spin it with typical PR double-speak as being in our best interests makes it even worse -- it's insulting.
To me this says the 'suits' have taken over from the gamers, and that bodes poorly for Civ's future.
Even if most of the 'I won't buy' folks do eventually buy, the loss of good will doesn't go away, and will be hard to regain.
And those that do eventually purchase, by waiting the price will generally be lower and then so will Civ5 profits and the initial sales buzz.
Look at what happened to Spore -- lots of hype and buzz, but where was the game a few weeks after release? The mighty can fall when they mis-step.
To me its the decision between buying it and pirating it.
If I have to run steam/games for windows live/etc or it has elements that require me to be online, I pirate the game. Its a sub-standard product and I'm not paying to be artifically limited.
If it has reasonable protections such as cd keys, authentication for online players, etc then I'm quite happy to pay.
Piracy is a competitor. If I do the right thing and pay for your software, why do I deserve the inferior product?
If I have to run steam/games for windows live/etc or it has elements that require me to be online, I pirate the game. Its a sub-standard product and I'm not paying to be artifically limited.
If it has reasonable protections such as cd keys, authentication for online players, etc then I'm quite happy to pay.
Piracy is a competitor. If I do the right thing and pay for your software, why do I deserve the inferior product?
Pirating game for such lame reason means you are *****. Pirates will always find some excuse not to pay.
Buy game or ignore it.
Firaxis you just ruined my day!
I have been playing the Civilization series since Civilization II, and purchased every single Civilization game and extension since then. I have to say that if Steam is to be shipped with Civilization 5 (on retail DVD!!), then Civilization 4: Colonization will be my last purchase of this series.
Please don't make me save that 60 bucks. It is meant to be spent on Civilization 5!!
I have been playing the Civilization series since Civilization II, and purchased every single Civilization game and extension since then. I have to say that if Steam is to be shipped with Civilization 5 (on retail DVD!!), then Civilization 4: Colonization will be my last purchase of this series.
Please don't make me save that 60 bucks. It is meant to be spent on Civilization 5!!
You don't have to save the money. Use it to support a game that has a better DRM policy- Elemental or Victoria II are both strategy games with better DRM policies out around the same time. That's the best way to show your disapproval- not by putting 100 posts on the forum like I have, but by voting with your wallet (like I intend to do)
Ultimately, 2k does not have to listen to anything we say here, and won't. They have too listen to sales figures.
By the time you're done with either of those games, Civ V should be $20 if you feel like buying it then.
This is incorrect. Running steam in offline mode means it is entirely offline, i.e. you could have no internet connection and still play your games. A torrent program would be running online in order to seed, this is completely different.
While it's essentially true that steam could stop you from playing your game, they wouldn't get much business by doing this. I use steam all the time and never find myself unable to play any of my games, though I do keep automatic updates on (don't see the point in playing old versions of a game, but to each their own. Play offline all the time if that's your choice.
You're talking about fans accepting changes, she's talking about Firaxis staying committed to their fans and staying that way, completely different thoughts. Just because Firaxis made a change doesn't mean they aren't committed to their fans.
These are game developers, we aren't. How are they expected to poll a significant portion of the Civ gaming community? They made the choices because it's their job to do so, not ours. If some people don't like it, things might change, but you can't ask fans to tell you everything they want in a game, it'll never go anywhere.
Agreed on this point. Adding a Civ in the deluxe edition is just a way to make people who want a complete game pay an extra $10, leave the deluxe edition to non-gameplay related items.
Without going into details: You still need to use Steam if you pirate it.
Yeah? We'll see about that.
xcrissxcrossx
Prince
I'm not buying it if this is what they are going to do. I already refuse to buy EA Games and Ubisoft Games. I will not boycott 2K, because I like them far too much, but I won't buy this.
I'll count on R*******1 and/or S*****w that there will be a "way" to play without Steam.Without going into details: You still need to use Steam if you pirate it.
And again - I/we WANT to pay for this game, I/we WANT to buy it. But only without being forced to use Steam.
Moderator Action: We have zero tolerance for piracy. No one forces you to pirate the game - you can buy it or not play it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Don't ask for this please. They'll just cut out some of the music that's already in the game and will make it unavailable to people who don't shell out extra money for Deluxe. Then they'll call this music "extra".
White Elk
99 > 1
I don't mind at all. I hope others do as well. The title is protest to the requirement of internet validation. Anyone is welcome to use it. Would work in general protest to Steam, but perhaps a title like "Steamed over Steam", "Say No to Steam", "I want Civ5 Not Steam", etc would also work. There is a maximum of 25 characters, spaces included.
Here is a tutorial explaining how to change our User Titles...
Spoiler :
Have you guys even used Steam? It's not that bad. It's certainly not at the point where we should be giving up 'all of our good will' over it. The client actually makes things a lot easier to work with, it doesn't 'take away our right to use our product', and it won't cut you off every time you lack internet access.
26 pages of overreaction. My lord.
26 pages of overreaction. My lord.
DaDoo
Prince
Personally I don't mind trying out Steam. Ever since buying a stardock game (sins of a solar empire) and that required me to install Impulse during the game installation or it won't continue, I've been more receptive to online distribution. I've had various pc components fail and having to reinstall windows because it corrupted files, reinstalling the games through Impulse couldn't be more painless and easy. I've been watching Steam for a while now. I wanted to try it but they really haven't had any game that I wanted to buy. Civ5 will be the game that'll make me finally sign up for Steam.
As for the people that absolutely hate Steam. Either buy the game and install Steam, or don't buy/play at all. Pirating really only make your claim of not liking Steam like just looking for an excuse to pirate.
As for the people that absolutely hate Steam. Either buy the game and install Steam, or don't buy/play at all. Pirating really only make your claim of not liking Steam like just looking for an excuse to pirate.
