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Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

Discussion in 'News Updates' started by V. Soma, May 6, 2010.

  1. Lord Brooks

    Lord Brooks Big Noob

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    I have no problem downloading from Steam, I play a few games on Steam already and have never had any problem.

    My only concern is how this is likely to effect Modders? I can't play vanilla BtS any more simply because the mods available far outstrip the original game and are much better.

    Can any of the modders out there let us know what their thoughts are on the whole Steam issue? Is Steam likely to cause any problems with mods?
     
  2. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    It has caused problems in the past. The BtS 3.19 patch came out, steam upgraded steam player's BtS and all their mods failed. They could not even go back a version while the modders got their mods updated to 3.19. The upgrade processes was not straight forward since many mods relied on other mods (eg RevDCM) which relied on yet more mods (eg Unofficial Patch). The delay was significant two weeks and more in some cases. I think almost a year in one case. Some mods never were converted.

    Perhaps steam & firaxis et al have learnt from this and it will not be a problem in the future.
     
  3. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Ugh. Compulsory Steam. At least one civ sealed off to a "special online only" version. Seriously? I have to admit, finding that out just now lessened my enthusiasm for the game somewhat...
     
  4. White Elk

    White Elk 99 > 1

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    In the weeks since learning that Steam was required for Civ5, I've been monitoring the Steam forums. I have read scores of complaints at how poor Steams customer service is. People speak of getting generic and inappropriate copy/pasted responses, and links to the knowledge base. And now it seems that what service they do provide, is delayed a week and more as they are currently inundated with a host of problems introduced by recent updates.
     
  5. epsylon

    epsylon Chieftain

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  6. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    As someone who worked for big ISP as 2nd level tech support for residential custommers I know that:

    - sometimes mistakes are made but given size of Steam and looking at their forums number of (valid) complaints about support is IMO small.

    - people who didnt like answer (despite it being correct) like to complain about support (and people ask support about crazy/stupid things all the time)

    -support will never be as fast as customers would like (I want to to be resolved now!! blablablabla...)

    - different tickets have different priority - for example tickets related to hijacked accounts have priority over all normal tickets
     
  7. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    This is subjective. For example, if Steam screws up and hoses me on my CC, according to to their EULA, I'm basically hosed. Theorectically, I could argue with my bank about it, but the time and additional cost in order to rectify the situation would be an additional aggravation I would like to avoid. Not to mention all the problems I would encur with my Valve/Steam account in the interim. I'm not saying Valve/Steam would do that, but the potential is there. I for one would like a clearly defined set of parameters before I engage in any online business transaction instead of Valve/ Steam's ambiguous one that gives them all the advantages.
     
  8. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

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    Im reluctant to preorder Civ 5 Deluxe Edition now because Im unsure if Steam or another vendor will offer an even better preorder later on. Is there a way to cancel a preorder should such an event occur?
     
  9. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    My wife is a bank manager and the solution we use to avoid situations like these is the same one she suggests to her friends and customers.

    I have a number of bank accounts (free from many banks) that I use only for online purchases. These accounts all have their automatic overdraft facility disabled; this is important because it means you can never get fees from the bank for being overdrawn as any charge for more than is in the account is simply denied.

    Any time I purchase online I use online banking to transfer the exact amount into one of these free accounts, then I make the purchase using my Visa debit card associated with that account. Since the account is now empty again I cannot get pinged with any further charges and since the account only ever contained the amount I was prepared to spend they could not overcharge me either.

    This also provides some protection against ID thieves getting hold of the acct info online since i never keep any money in the account for them to drain! (Typically a $5 balance just to keep it +ve rather then 0)

    Does it take a couple of moments longer...sure...but it brings tremendous peace of mind.
     
  10. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Nice :goodjob:
     
  11. Lord Brooks

    Lord Brooks Big Noob

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    I must admit Steam seems like an un-necessary hurdle especially given the modding side of things, I thought they wanted to keep Civ 5 comletely mod friendly? I hate not having a choice, I don't care if it's on Steam as long as if we choose we can download it from a disk and patch it via the website... I've experienced problems actually loading games with the offline mode of Steam in the past when my internet connection has been playing up. This is a concern but the main concern for me is still modding and multiplayer games? Anyone from the CIV 5 team want to clarify and maybe alleviate all our fears?
     
  12. White Elk

    White Elk 99 > 1

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    These are all generic points which do not take into account the actual complaints I have seen.
    You really have worked in customer service haven't you :~P

    Point by point...

    1) Due to the volume of these complaints, the regularity for which I find them, and the frequency that other users reply with postings to back up these complaints; I am left with the strong impression that the general customer satisfaction with customer service is very poor indeed!

    Furthermore, in my own experiance with a great number of problems with the windows software (among others); I have yet to make any postings asking for help. I use search engines to find postings that other users have made. After some effort I can usually find a solution. I think it a safe assumption that a sizable chunk of users do the same. Finding solutions that way removes customer service from the loop so there is no oppurtunity to deal with customer service in the first place.

    2) These are not customer service requests about "crazy/stupid things". These are people, many posting respectfuly and apologetically, who just want to find a solution so they can play the games they have purchased!

    3) The majority of complaints that I've read about customer service don't speak of reaction time. Though this last week I have seen an increasing amount of complaints regarding service tickets being dropped with no reply from Valve. And of responses taking a week and more. Mostly the complaints speak of getting generic answers that don't apply to the users situation, and telling users to complete troubleshooting they have already reported as being done.

    4) Being unable to use purchased media is a high priority tag in my book.


    If customer service is overwhelmed with help requests, which it appears that they are due to bugs in recent client updates, that is their problem not their customers. If they are so understaffed, or undertrained, or what?... that they cannot provide help beyond linking to the knowledge base and providing generic off-topic advice, it is them that fail. Why do you try and put responsibility of this onto the customers? Why do you suggest that their complaints and problems are not "valid", "crazy/stupid", impatient, and represent an insignificant minority?


    BTW, I too have dabbled in customer service. Though I have a completely different take, experience, and training than you seem to have had. Perhaps its a generational thing? There once was a time where "the customer was always right"... even in the instances where they were clearly wrong. The power of word of mouth advertising was respected, and great pains were made to assist customers to have a positive experience. Fostering customer Goodwill was a priority. But then those were different days. Monopolies were defined different. Peoples attitudes were different. The catch phrase "it's just business" was just beginning to worm its way into the collective unconscious.



    Heres the only post about support that I happened to have bookmarked.
    Was posted in a thread I'd bookmarked to follow a common "connection to Steam" problem.
    Some user frustration evident, but who can blame them eh?

     
  13. Eejit

    Eejit Chieftain

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    I was talking about getting specific questions about how Steam works. Email core Valve employees like Gabe and you might get an answer. Don't try to get answers to intelligent questions on the Steam forum, it's a cesspit generally no wonder Valve seem to avoid it when they can.

    Technical support is something rather different, and in my experience their response times vary a lot. I imagine it would be rather slow atm what with Steam and several Source games having just been released on the Mac.
     
  14. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    About support not responding:

    - most such complaints contain info that that user emailed his problem to Valve - you CANT create trouble ticket by sending email - to do that you need to use their Steam support site - if you only send some email no1 will ever see it.

    -When you create ticket you will recieve ronfirmation of its creation - if you dont recieve it, ticket wasnt created. Its possible that some of those who complain about this encountered some problem when they created ticket and it wasnt created (and they didnt bother reading that if they dont recieve email confirmation ticket wasnt created).

    Regarding crazy Qs from customers:
    - I was questioned for almost 30 minutes (it was weekend and I was bored, so I didnt hung up) by some ***** about what would happen to his 30€ per month internet connection if we have earthquake of 7+ on Richter scale (and this in cental europe where we have maybe 1 earthquake per year which is 3 on Richter scale and no recorded history of anything over 5 on Richter scale)

    Yes, I am biased against common users, but its their fault, because 70% of those I had to deal with were just stupid.
     
  15. fireclaw722

    fireclaw722 Imperial Guard

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    IF I planned to buy ciV, then I wouldn't mind using Steam(as I already have it, what's the point in not getting a game for such reason), but Fraxis has already dettered me from wanting to get ciV because of their forcing 1UPT, DLC(and they say it's supposed to be more moddable), and other minor things that have already bothered me. I also fear that the extensive modding capabilities, now shown in cIV, will be(eventually, not immediately of course) 'thrown to the wind', and Fraxis/2K Games won't be much worried about their older customers(ones who have been playing since CivI and II), and will rely on those who will buy the game without realizing what they could be missing out on...
     
  16. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    ^

    I think this will happen as well, I think that the focus will turn away from modding, and will be fully on Multiplayer/Ladder for the vanilla version of the game.
     
  17. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    One musn't forget about the nice achievments as well for playing on Steam. Sheesh, just what civ needs.... Not!
     
  18. mamba

    mamba Deity

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    Just to check whether I got this right ;)

    You do not like 1UPT (which I take means 1 unit per tile) and this is why you do not get Civ5 ? Perfectly fine reason, truth be told that also does not sit well with me ;)

    You do not get it because there may be DLC (which is optional anyway, so buying it is a separate decision) ? I am no fan of DLC myself, but I will decide whether to get it or not get it (the DLC) when it gets there, much like I bypassed some expansions of Civ but not others, this does not affect my Civ5 decision itself however.

    You do not get Civ5 because some future version (not 5) may not be as moddable as you would like it to be ? I would not buy that version, but not buying Civ5 because some other game may not be what you want is odd.

    Ultimately this is your decision, not mine, but I cannot follow some of your reasoning ;)
     
  19. fireclaw722

    fireclaw722 Imperial Guard

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    1.] I don't want to get a game that forces a UPT limit on the player(and AI[I'll probably get ciV when someone mods the tile limit out though...])

    2.] I don't really mind DLC, because it adds new content to the game(some of which could be modded into the game), but I don't see the point of bieng able to buy a civ, when one could just mod the same civ into the game. Also, as many probably know, DLC prices are outrageous, I mean $10 for just a new civ/LH/UU/UB(I know it's a new game, but $10, really)? Plus how many modders would want to add that into the game, but would be to afraid to release it, because of Pirating issues...

    3.] I would get ciV if it weren't for these minor details, but I don't want to see a great game such as this turn out to be like 'playing the same game over and over...' type thing(that's what civ is all about, right[as I'm starting to see this already]).

    Just my opinion, don't let this derail anyone from getting it(although I don't expect many to change thier minds, this is an American franchise, of course:p).
     
  20. PaaVi

    PaaVi Chieftain

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    Sid, I am disappoint. I've never liked Steam so much.
     

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