Civ7 seem to leave space for the 4th age?

[Gori the Grey]

A 4th age with MAD, decolonization, environmental effects, globalization, internet…..

This has helped me formulate my own guess.

There won't be a fourth age to fill up 1950-2025, but rather a third crisis. The third crisis will be triggered by some civ completing one of the "total victories" of the Modern Era. At that point, the game will say, "You thought you achieved a victory? by triumphing over other nations? Ha ha ha! Here's a global threat, and the only way it can be faced is by cooperation among nations. So there's a kind of even-more-final victory. It's a kind of diplomatic victory, in that the only way to achieve it is to bring all of the players together despite fragmenting, centrifugal forces like the ideologies, MAD, decolonization, internal polarization of your society, etc.

You collectively hit a global temperature target; or launch a multi-society ship to Alpha Centauri; or build a world culture, so that all the border markers on the map are one color. Something like that.

 

[gdr_willter]

to bring all of the players together

by absolute fear!

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, maybe that's an option.

 

[bahamut19]

Since there is a good chance this might be the last Civ that Sid Meier is involved in, I could imagine 5 total ages once the game is complete. The 4th is age as everyone discussed and that Ed Beach alluded to in the Modern Age Gameplay reveal. This would be the post-modern today period. The 5th could be the Alpha Centauri age. In the 4th age you've launched an exoplanet expedition. In the 5th Alpha Centauri age, you take all of your unique traditions, legacies, and ideologies, and start settling Planet. I couldn't imagine a greater way to honor the legacy of Sid Meier, and to tie in both beloved franchises together into an epic game. The 5th age, though, should just be an alternative game mode.

 

[stealth_nsk]

This has helped me formulate my own guess.

There won't be a fourth age to fill up 1950-2025, but rather a third crisis. The third crisis will be triggered by some civ completing one of the "total victories" of the Modern Era. At that point, the game will say, "You thought you achieved a victory? by triumphing over other nations? Ha ha ha! Here's a global threat, and the only way it can be faced is by cooperation among nations. So there's a kind of even-more-final victory. It's a kind of diplomatic victory, in that the only way to achieve it is to bring all of the players together despite centrifugal forces like the ideologies, MAD, decolonization, internal polarization of your society, etc.

You collectively hit a global temperature target; or launch a multi-society ship to Alpha Centauri; or build a world culture, so that all the border markers on the map are one color. Something like that.

I like wild speculations, but I believe this would turn civilization into completely different game. That also the reason why I'm skeptical about contemporary age using same civilizations as modern - it would create an exception in game mechanics and one of the things Firaxis tried to avoid with age introduction.

The most realistic (and the most boring) expectations are, IMHO the following. Full expansion is planned in a year after the release. This generally fits the timeline of previous game expansions and known DLC schedule. This expansion will have 4th age together with at least 13 civilization to fill it to match roster of other ages by this time. In theory, there could be a bit more and some civs added to previous ages, i.e. the expansion could have 17 civs - 14 for contemporary age and 1 for other ages. In addition to new contemporary age mechanics, this expansion could reshuffle some existing mechanics too (for example, implementing contemporary may require tweaks in how ideology (modern) and governments (all ages) work). Also, obviously, victory conditions will be moved to 4th age and 3th age will end with a crisis, like the ages before.

That way it looks quite in line with how expansions for previous civ games were done and with overall civ7 game structure.

 

[Nikolai II]

Since there is a good chance this might be the last Civ that Sid Meier is involved in, I could imagine 5 total ages once the game is complete. The 4th is age as everyone discussed and that Ed Beach alluded to in the Modern Age Gameplay reveal. This would be the post-modern today period. The 5th could be the Alpha Centauri age. In the 4th age you've launched an exoplanet expedition. In the 5th Alpha Centauri age, you take all of your unique traditions, legacies, and ideologies, and start settling Planet. I couldn't imagine a greater way to honor the legacy of Sid Meier, and to tie in both beloved franchises together into an epic game. The 5th age, though, should just be an alternative game mode.

That is beautiful.

 

[Krikkit1]

I like wild speculations, but I believe this would turn civilization into completely different game. That also the reason why I'm skeptical about contemporary age using same civilizations as modern - it would create an exception in game mechanics and one of the things Firaxis tried to avoid with age introduction.

The most realistic (and the most boring) expectations are, IMHO the following. Full expansion is planned in a year after the release. This generally fits the timeline of previous game expansions and known DLC schedule. This expansion will have 4th age together with at least 13 civilization to fill it to match roster of other ages by this time. In theory, there could be a bit more and some civs added to previous ages, i.e. the expansion could have 17 civs - 14 for contemporary age and 1 for other ages. In addition to new contemporary age mechanics, this expansion could reshuffle some existing mechanics too (for example, implementing contemporary may require tweaks in how ideology (modern) and governments (all ages) work). Also, obviously, victory conditions will be moved to 4th age and 3th age will end with a crisis, like the ages before.

That way it looks quite in line with how expansions for previous civ games were done and with overall civ7 game structure.

Instead of removing the 3rd Age victories, I think it more likely that they would have victories for ALL of the ages and either
1. if it is your last age of this game you get the victory, otherwise you get the crisis
2. the “victories” in a nonfinal age give one more legacy point to the first one to finish them. (and accelerate the age even more)

 

[stealth_nsk]

Instead of removing the 3rd Age victories, I think it more likely that they would have victories for ALL of the ages and either
1. if it is your last age of this game you get the victory, otherwise you get the crisis
2. the “victories” in a nonfinal age give one more legacy point to the first one to finish them. (and accelerate the age even more)

That's how ages are structured now - all of them have goals. If the age is non-final, fulfilling the goals leads to age transition and crisis, if it's final - to victory race instead of crisis. Right now it works with all 3 ages, i.e. if you play antiquity-only, you'll have victory race there.

So, you could say that there are victories for each age now, but only last age in each particular setting has them.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Given how intentional the devs seem to be about creating a narrative arc in Civ7 I'm personally skeptical of a 4th age right now as it messes with the narrative arc structure they've worked so hard to create. 3 ages is the perfect narrative length, and adding in a 4th age will either make the game too long or shorten each age reducing its narrative potential.

Granted, some past expansions added stuff which was cool but ultimately just gameplay bloat so it could happen, so I guess it depends on how closely later DLC and expansions hew to the original design vision.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Given how intentional the devs seem to be about creating a narrative arc in Civ7 I'm personally skeptical of a 4th age right now as it messes with the narrative arc structure they've worked so hard to create. 3 ages is the perfect narrative length, and adding in a 4th age will either make the game too long or shorten each age reducing its narrative potential.

Granted, some past expansions added stuff which was cool but ultimately just gameplay bloat so it could happen, so I guess it depends on how closely later DLC and expansions hew to the original design vision.

I partially agree with you. On one hand, adding 4th age clearly would make the game longer, unless default number of turns per age will be reduced accordingly, which is also a possibility. On the other hand, I disagree that it breaks narrative length, because each age generally has it's own narrative arc and I believe it's possible to make 4th age interesting.

BTW., my biggest bloating problem was doubling number of units in Civ6 expansions. In vanilla most units had 1 upgrades per 2 ages, but later they became 1 upgrade per era and from this I stopped playing in normal speed, because I wasn't able to actually use many of those units - they were switching too fast. Compared to this, adding 4th age looks like smaller problem.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I like wild speculations, but I believe this would turn civilization into completely different game.

It would be TWO games.

Anyone who likes the old Civ can stop with the "total victory" at the end of Modern. Anyone who wants to can play the Catastrophe-Whack-A-Mole third Crisis, precisely as a "completely different" kind of game. That's the selling point for that content.

 

[stealth_nsk]

It would be TWO games.

Anyone who likes the old Civ can stop with the "total victory" at the end of Modern. Anyone who wants to can play the Catastrophe-Whack-A-Mole third Crisis, precisely as a "completely different" kind of game. That's the selling point for that content.

It would be possible without all this. Civ7 already allows playing only one age and each of ages has victories designed for this setup, they could easily allow playing 2 or 3 ages based on your choice. If Firaxis just keep this structure, it would be possible to play 3 ages from antiquity to modern, or 3 from exploration to contemporary, or 2 from antiquity to exploration, etc.

No need to invent any additional mechanics.

 

[Gori the Grey]

But it's not just an extra age. It is, as you yourself indicated in your first response, an entirely new gameplay experience.

What they give you is a threat to mankind's continued existence. You're playing against all the previous competitive game mechanics to stave that off.

 

[stealth_nsk]

But it's not just an extra age. It is, as you yourself indicated in your first response, an entirely new gameplay experience.

That's why it's very unlikely it will be done that way.

 

[Gori the Grey]

But also not entirely new, b/c the game has trained you in managing crises with the earlier, smaller ones.

It's also something about the cinematic that makes me guess this. There's a "what are we going to do?" question at the end of it, the implied "we" being humanity. I'll go dig up the exact quote.

Edit: Well, frankly just the "we" all through it better fits "humanity" than any one particular civilization. But especially the "strata of the earth have countless stories" bit. If those are the stories "we" are learning from, who is the "we" but humanity at large?
Plus its whole broad theme: Rediscover Hope. What does that resonate with but our contemporary despair over ethnic conflict, depletion of earth's resources, catastrophic global climate change, nuclear proliferation?

 

[Krikkit1]

But also not entirely new, b/c the game has trained you in managing crises with the earlier, smaller ones.

It's also something about the cinematic that makes me guess this. There's a "what are we going to do?" question at the end of it, the implied "we" being humanity. I'll go dig up the exact quote.

Edit: Well, frankly just the "we" all through it better fits "humanity" than any one particular civilization. But especially the "strata of the earth" have countless stories. If those are the stories "we" are learning from, who is the "we" but humanity at large?

I do like the idea of the final 2 victories being the other 2 attributes
Expansionist Victory: Mars colony (needs science and economics legacy paths)

Diplomatic Victory: World Civilization (needs military and cultural legacy paths)

 

[Gori the Grey]

By the way, in our reflections about whether there will be a fourth age should probably be a little thought about total number of turns. The old norm was about 300. I think each age here will be about 200. So already games will be twice as long as before. Are players really going to want yet one more rubber-banding moment and 200 more turns of playing?

 

[chaosprophet]

I wonder what would the crisis be for a Modern Age if they add a fourth. Considering the confirmed timeline, an economic bubble burst and an forced world war (lasting until at least the end of the age) are two I think pretty likely to happen.

I like wild speculations, but I believe this would turn civilization into completely different game. That also the reason why I'm skeptical about contemporary age using same civilizations as modern - it would create an exception in game mechanics and one of the things Firaxis tried to avoid with age introduction.

The most realistic (and the most boring) expectations are, IMHO the following. Full expansion is planned in a year after the release. This generally fits the timeline of previous game expansions and known DLC schedule. This expansion will have 4th age together with at least 13 civilization to fill it to match roster of other ages by this time. In theory, there could be a bit more and some civs added to previous ages, i.e. the expansion could have 17 civs - 14 for contemporary age and 1 for other ages. In addition to new contemporary age mechanics, this expansion could reshuffle some existing mechanics too (for example, implementing contemporary may require tweaks in how ideology (modern) and governments (all ages) work). Also, obviously, victory conditions will be moved to 4th age and 3th age will end with a crisis, like the ages before.

That way it looks quite in line with how expansions for previous civ games were done and with overall civ7 game structure.

While not how I would like it (in particular with the new civs), I agree with you this would be what is more likely to happen.

So, you could say that there are victories for each age now, but only last age in each particular setting has them.

Although I believe they said in single age games in Antiquity and Exploration it is just a score victory based on how you did at the legacies, so separated project for victory conditions seems to only exist now for Modern Age.

By the way, in our reflections about whether there will be a fourth age should probably be a little thought about total number of turns. The old norm was about 300. I think each age here will be about 200. So already games will be twice as long as before. Are players really going to want yet one more rubber-banding moment and 200 more turns of playing?

At least Civ 6, the standard speed was a total of 500 turns. Most people never played that far cause the game would get less interesting but that would be a full game. Right now, while each age is max 200 at standard, it most likely go to 150 with the player and AIs reducing it by doing legacies, and Exploration stream seems to indicating it going even faster, possibly because the less turns when someone research a future tech or civic can make it go even lower than 150? So a full game right now would be more generally around 450 turns, minus some turns as you would expect players to win the game before it reaches the last turn in general on the Modern Age.

 

[moondog385]

While I’ve been very much on board with the team’s decisions and what I’ve seen of the game thus far, I have to say restricting 1950 and on to a fourth age would be very disappointing and questionable. If they want to make a Beyond Earth futuristic fourth age have at it.

 

[Xandinho]

I like wild speculations, but I believe this would turn civilization into completely different game. That also the reason why I'm skeptical about contemporary age using same civilizations as modern - it would create an exception in game mechanics and one of the things Firaxis tried to avoid with age introduction.

The most realistic (and the most boring) expectations are, IMHO the following. Full expansion is planned in a year after the release. This generally fits the timeline of previous game expansions and known DLC schedule. This expansion will have 4th age together with at least 13 civilization to fill it to match roster of other ages by this time. In theory, there could be a bit more and some civs added to previous ages, i.e. the expansion could have 17 civs - 14 for contemporary age and 1 for other ages. In addition to new contemporary age mechanics, this expansion could reshuffle some existing mechanics too (for example, implementing contemporary may require tweaks in how ideology (modern) and governments (all ages) work). Also, obviously, victory conditions will be moved to 4th age and 3th age will end with a crisis, like the ages before.

That way it looks quite in line with how expansions for previous civ games were done and with overall civ7 game structure.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. That sounds like something they would do. I don't see the need for an extra era, but if I had to choose, I'd much prefer one more era between Antiquity and Exploration. I think if we see "Prussia" instead of "Germany" and "French Empire" instead of "France", we can take the fourth era almost 100% for granted.