Civ7 Space Race Science Victory.

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

What should be a final objective of Space Race in Civ7?
1. Lagrangian Spacecolony (O'Neill Cylinder, featured prominently in Gundam franchise)
2. Mars colonization. (or anywhere else within Solar System)
3. First 'Faster Than Light' spaceship (To nearest star systems adjacent to Sol system).
4. First to reach different Galaxy.
5. Other.................

 

[Evie]

6. Exactly where it is now : the colonization of another inhabitable planet (which, by necessity, is a planet outside our solar system because no other planet here is habitable in the Solar System), because the game (played as it is on a board representing a single planet) stop making any sense once civilizations expands to encompass multiple planets, so the colonization of other planets is a natural end point of the game.

Not small space outposts (Which Mars and other solar system planet would also be due to hostility and size limitation) but permanent establishments of a settlement colony on another planet.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

6. Exactly where it is now : the colonization of another inhabitable planet (which, by necessity, is a planet outside our solar system because no other planet here is habitable in the Solar System), because the game (played as it is on a board representing a single planet) stop making any sense once civilizations expands to encompass multiple planets, so the colonization of other planets is a natural end point of the game.

Not small space outposts (Which Mars and other solar system planet would also be due to hostility and size limitation) but permanent establishments of a settlement colony on another planet.

Isn't that Civ5 Science Victory that spun out Civilization Beyond Earth? (Another Civ game plays on different Earthlike planet with different flora and fauna to Earth).

 

[Patine]

Isn't that Civ5 Science Victory that spun out Civilization Beyond Earth? (Another Civ game plays on different Earthlike planet with different flora and fauna to Earth).

I believe so, just like the Civ2 Space Race victory spun out Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, his and Brian Reynolds first title by Firaxis, and not MicroProse, where they both started as senior developers in.

 

[Evie]

And in Civ 4. And 3. And 2. And 1. And in 6 after Rise and Fall.

"Reach an exoplanet" (all versions before civ 6 specified "reach Alpha Centauri" instead) has been the essence of the science victory for thirty years.

 

[pineappledan]

Moon Base.

 

[Evie]

I just don't see why the creation of a moon base should end the game.

Sending a colony ship to another planet ends the game because your civilization is now spreading to and inhabiting other worlds, where it can sustain itself no matter what happens on Earth. But a moon base is too small, and the environment too hostile, to do that: if your Earth civilization is destroyed, a moonbase, or Lagrange station, or Mars base won't survive it for long.

That's why I feel exoplanet is the right benchmark for a science victory.

Moonbases and space stations are arguably more appropriate as some kind of wonder of the world.

 

[Zaarin]

I agree with Evie, and I'm fine with specifying Proxima Centauri. Evidence is still inconclusive about whether there is or even could be a habitable planet orbiting Proxima Centauri, but an exoplanet orbiting any further away is beyond our conceivable technology to reach without the development of FTL, which our current understanding of physics says isn't possible. (Maybe our understanding of physics will change, and we'll discover FTL is possible. That's not a subject for near-future tech, though--whereas a generation ship to Proxima Centauri could be.)

I would add that a long-term self-sustaining colony in the clouds of Venus is probable the closest to a habitable planet aside from Earth in our solar system, not Mars, Titan, Enceladus, Europa, etc., and certainly not the Moon or a La Grange station, but that's still not near future--and it would not be self-sustaining for a large, permanent population. (Terraforming Mars is conceptually possible but requires technology beyond what I would call "near future." The Jovian moons are bombarded with such intense radiation from Jupiter that we can rule them out. Titan would be great--if we ever learn how to breath nitrogen, drink ammonia, and survive at -300F.)

 

[pineappledan]

Could also make the science victory a much lower bar, like building a space elevator. Something that would make colonization of space much easier, but isn't the act of colonization itself, and isn't so far away into the realm of speculation.

 

[Evie]

But why would we make it a lower bar?

A military victory implies conquest of every (capital of every) civilization. This is not an easy goal or a low bar: in thousands of years, no one has even come close to achieving it, and most of the most successful attempts collapsed within a few decades. Rome, Persia, China, even the Mongols didn't even come close.

Nor has anyone been elected world leader, nor has anyone managed to establish a universal religion, and neither seem even close to happening.

Victory - other than score at the end of the game - should not be easy. It should not be something that's reasonably achievable in the foreseeable future. It should be an exceptional achievement that push the limits of what is possible (into things we may, as of now, consider impossible).

(As to Proxima Centauri vs other exoplanets, I think leaving it vague works best - That way you don't have to debate what speeds are realistically achievable (0.5 the speed of light? 0.1? 0.01?))

 

[Zaarin]

Could also make the science victory a much lower bar, like building a space elevator. Something that would make colonization of space much easier, but isn't the act of colonization itself, and isn't so far away into the realm of speculation.

Considering a space elevator would require carbon nanotubes on a scale that is not currently practicable, I'm not sure that's less in the realm of speculation--but it could certainly be something like the construction of a lunar space elevator or a space fountain.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I was fine with the base game establishing a colony on Mars. I don't think it needs to go any further than colonizing a planet whether it's in our solar system or another.

Considering a space elevator would require carbon nanotubes on a scale that is not currently practicable, I'm not sure that's less in the realm of speculation--but it could certainly be something like the construction of a lunar space elevator or a space fountain.

I'm just picturing a glass elevator launching into the air, like from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, making it all the way to the Space Hotel U.S.A.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Something tells me there are two different ways to travel faster than light : the first one is "unravel the matter" (the matter is IMO a sum of "empty"-space nodes) to the point its weight is 0, sending it far, far away with a kind of catapult, and it may recompose after the pressures exerced on it in laboratory expire. The second one is building two gates like in Stargate, so that massive migration of people are allowed. Because I'm optimistic, I believe those two ways are possible. And if not, we will make them possible.

 

[shmily_dana]

There could also be a hybrid space-diplomatic victory if you get all the other nations and city states to join your space project.

 

[Zaarin]

Something tells me there are two different ways to travel faster than light : the first one is "unravel the matter" (the matter is IMO a sum of "empty"-space nodes) to the point its weight is 0, sending it far, far away with a kind of catapult, and it may recompose after the pressures exerced on it in laboratory expire. The second one is building two gates like in Stargate, so that massive migration of people are allowed. Because I'm optimistic, I believe those two ways are possible. And if not, we will make them possible.

"Hyperspace"--whether through direct access like in Star Wars or through gates like in Stargate, Babylon 5, Mass Effect, etc.--is a staple of sci-fi because it dodges the question of FTL, but I wouldn't count on it. Now, special relativity does predict the existence of wormholes...but they're one of the last parts of special relativity that hasn't been proven yet so who knows.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There could also be a hybrid space-diplomatic victory if you get all the other nations and city states to join your space project.

There's already an International Space Station competition for the World Congress for that.

 

[BuchiTaton]

About an interstellar colony in a flavor less "Future Era" I cant help but feel it like have a nuclear program in the Enlightenment.
I mean we are likely decades if not centuries afar from sustainable, profitable and autonomous space colonies, so I would expect to have a lot of gameplay, mechanics, units, buildings, techs, resources and events about futuristic topics meanwhile an interstellar expedition is prepared.

 

[Evie]

While that would be fun, speculations about the future tends to be a territory that's fraught with bad cliches (see: Robot, Giant Death) and very poor understanding of technology and warfare.

And any lesser space goal fails to explain *why* it's a victory condition.

 

[shmily_dana]

There's already an International Space Station competition for the World Congress for that.

My idea would be that you have to not just win the competition. You have to convince everybody to contribute. No zeros in the final scores. Even the civilization that is struggling to survive with one crappy city and an archer gets to send someone on the final space mission.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My idea would be that you have to not just win the competition. You have to convince everybody to contribute. No zeros in the final scores. Even the civilization that is struggling to survive with one crappy city and an archer gets to send someone on the final space mission.

But why would anyone else want to contribute if they knew you would win? Even if everyone in the world were your allies, I still don't think they would want to join knowing they don't get anything out of the end result.