Naokaukodem
Millenary King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
- Messages
- 4,323
I think that some mix of workers and builders could be done, a kind of Civ4 slavery civic deported to workers : You can brutalize them with a high chance to die or lose health, for a one shot improvement in 1 turn like Civ6 builders, whereas they put time and several turns otherwise, and if they do not die they work on the basis of their remaining health : if 30/30% health left, they complete things at 30% of their full health speed. Then you could with slavery (while it's still something, in modern you would be seen as a monster and denounced by everybody) brutalize your workers that would have no cost or 1 or 2 food per unit (to your choice : 1 food the health goes down 20% every turn, 2 food it does go down only if brutalized) for the urgent improvements and keep the survivors as slow builders for future improvements or improvements that need just one more turn. Note that like any other unit, the food needed to sustain them, full or half, would be proportional to their health. Furthermore, some improvements would be of high cost, like canals or stadiums (to take eloquent examples) or even railroads, and you would prefer to brutalize some workers so to be completed in reasonable time.
Later in the game, states would be classified as emergent, power or superpower (can be only 2 superpowers at a time), and if you under-pay your workers while you are an emergent power or a superpower that produces for the whole planet (whereas every production or nearly is replaced by gold in "developed" countries), or is a super-trader like the oil producing states, you can now "encourage" them to work a lot for a few (maintenance cost : 1 gold per turn per worker or even less), meaning you use your poor population to make the dirty, dangerous work. Or even without this classification, if you have a lot of poor people in your country (mostly because your country is, well, poor), you can do as so in modern times and being tolerated by other powers, "brutalize" becoming "encourage" but with the same effects. Note that you don't even have to feed them as they get paid a misery to feed their family, so in a sense it's even better than slavery, not to mention it would be a good launching pad in order to catch up rapidly, killing your poor population by making profit from them, hence less unhappiness, and more gold/things done.
Of course the game should simulate different classes of citizens, related to your country's wealth - calculated both by your actual cash and gold per turn that would define the proportion of each class - and production capacity - see the above China-like "factory of the World" emergent superpower model about classification - but religion and culture would do nothing on their own (they have to be kickstarted by financing, an initial investment have to be done for them to have an effect on your victory advancement). So you could benefit of a defined number of "force laboring" people.
Also it would be better if in the end your poor people could work directly the land for a city, instead of having nothing anymore to improve and sit there doing nothing. You could try to disband them, but they would immediately rejoin the poor people crowds and contribute to sink your economy. Instead you could pay them a misery (related to your country's wealth) so that they would contribute to the effort with "universal revenue" such we have in France, that was called RMI (Revenu Minimum d'Insertion - Minimum Integration Income) and now is called RSA (Revenu de Solidarité Active - Active Solidarity Income) which is for a single person around 450€/$ a month, with a thirteenth month at the end of the year, but this is because we are in a rich/developed country. (spoiler : you need charity or never move from your home, playing pirated video games on your average PC bought on credit all the day - don't look at me, I never bought anything on credit
: fortunately I became mad and now touch the AAH, l'Allocation Adultes Handicapés - Disability Allowance for Adults which is about the double - and yet, yes I'm going out with some weirdos everyday but last month I only saved 10€, but fortunately I have a little monetary mattress thx to my semi- or year of total work in my life - don't get me wrong I'm not comparing myself to the dead at work workers of Qatar, I've just "been lucky in my misfortune" as we say here, and I have no family to feed, only me, I and myself) And yes, until soon, people were catching diseases by working, dying before their pension. So I guess that's less spectacular because of medias, but even in France we can die of working. Anyway, France is not a poor country, so I guess this mechanic would not be applicable to it if the game was a perfect writing, because it would cost you probably too much. (and anyway you would have limited amount of "poor" people)
With workers into cities, the slaving system would work like in Civ4 basically, except that the workers would have an health bar like any other unit or even citizen. (see the idea in my signature) But that time around, a damaged worker would be sub-efficient so better to suck up all its life until death. (1hp = 1 hammer ?) Improvements would be counted in hammers. (so could be done in the city queue too)
Could Workers recover health if they sit here doing nothing and consuming your food/gold ? Maybe every unit shouldn't be able to recover health, that's maybe a bad idea but in a world where cities can be made by any citizen/worker/military unit, which would be merged somehow, maybe that's not a problem, but that sounds like a radical unpleasant change. (citizens could be converted into soldiers basically anywhere on the map, so you would have to merge them to make a new full health unit, the rest becoming reinforcements. If units can heal, then workers could or couldn't, it's to playtest, because without meaning to, it's becoming a bit complicated)
Later in the game, states would be classified as emergent, power or superpower (can be only 2 superpowers at a time), and if you under-pay your workers while you are an emergent power or a superpower that produces for the whole planet (whereas every production or nearly is replaced by gold in "developed" countries), or is a super-trader like the oil producing states, you can now "encourage" them to work a lot for a few (maintenance cost : 1 gold per turn per worker or even less), meaning you use your poor population to make the dirty, dangerous work. Or even without this classification, if you have a lot of poor people in your country (mostly because your country is, well, poor), you can do as so in modern times and being tolerated by other powers, "brutalize" becoming "encourage" but with the same effects. Note that you don't even have to feed them as they get paid a misery to feed their family, so in a sense it's even better than slavery, not to mention it would be a good launching pad in order to catch up rapidly, killing your poor population by making profit from them, hence less unhappiness, and more gold/things done.
Of course the game should simulate different classes of citizens, related to your country's wealth - calculated both by your actual cash and gold per turn that would define the proportion of each class - and production capacity - see the above China-like "factory of the World" emergent superpower model about classification - but religion and culture would do nothing on their own (they have to be kickstarted by financing, an initial investment have to be done for them to have an effect on your victory advancement). So you could benefit of a defined number of "force laboring" people.
Also it would be better if in the end your poor people could work directly the land for a city, instead of having nothing anymore to improve and sit there doing nothing. You could try to disband them, but they would immediately rejoin the poor people crowds and contribute to sink your economy. Instead you could pay them a misery (related to your country's wealth) so that they would contribute to the effort with "universal revenue" such we have in France, that was called RMI (Revenu Minimum d'Insertion - Minimum Integration Income) and now is called RSA (Revenu de Solidarité Active - Active Solidarity Income) which is for a single person around 450€/$ a month, with a thirteenth month at the end of the year, but this is because we are in a rich/developed country. (spoiler : you need charity or never move from your home, playing pirated video games on your average PC bought on credit all the day - don't look at me, I never bought anything on credit
: fortunately I became mad and now touch the AAH, l'Allocation Adultes Handicapés - Disability Allowance for Adults which is about the double - and yet, yes I'm going out with some weirdos everyday but last month I only saved 10€, but fortunately I have a little monetary mattress thx to my semi- or year of total work in my life - don't get me wrong I'm not comparing myself to the dead at work workers of Qatar, I've just "been lucky in my misfortune" as we say here, and I have no family to feed, only me, I and myself) And yes, until soon, people were catching diseases by working, dying before their pension. So I guess that's less spectacular because of medias, but even in France we can die of working. Anyway, France is not a poor country, so I guess this mechanic would not be applicable to it if the game was a perfect writing, because it would cost you probably too much. (and anyway you would have limited amount of "poor" people)With workers into cities, the slaving system would work like in Civ4 basically, except that the workers would have an health bar like any other unit or even citizen. (see the idea in my signature) But that time around, a damaged worker would be sub-efficient so better to suck up all its life until death. (1hp = 1 hammer ?) Improvements would be counted in hammers. (so could be done in the city queue too)
Could Workers recover health if they sit here doing nothing and consuming your food/gold ? Maybe every unit shouldn't be able to recover health, that's maybe a bad idea but in a world where cities can be made by any citizen/worker/military unit, which would be merged somehow, maybe that's not a problem, but that sounds like a radical unpleasant change. (citizens could be converted into soldiers basically anywhere on the map, so you would have to merge them to make a new full health unit, the rest becoming reinforcements. If units can heal, then workers could or couldn't, it's to playtest, because without meaning to, it's becoming a bit complicated)
