CivDip XIII - Dancing with the Devil!

I didn't NBR. I sent it.

I maintain what I did. I talked with you guys long before those turns and you didn't respond. So I had to wait until we successfully broke German defense to stab Russia so that both of them would be weakened, opening myself to take power for a solo. But if I'm being outvoted, I don't care.
 
Okay, let us continue this if Syterion really is that delusional. Doesn't take me long to churn out a few orders twice a week.

That Russia won't be able to take a single Anglo-German center without Italian complicity seems to beyond his ken.

Stapel needs a replacement willing to continue the struggle, lets take this to the finish. Ideally the builds/disbands phase needs to be done and the game continued.

But, Syterion unless the players wanted to do it for the hell of it, you wouldn't solo - not in a trillion snowy days in hell. There are two possibilities in this game, either an Italian solo or a 4 way draw because there is little or no possibility of an optimised Anglo-Franco-German-Russian action the balance of probability given Keirador is pretty good at this game is Italy will get her Solo.

Had Keirador bigger cahonies he'd have already scragged Russia when myself and Germany were doing such a disruptive job with so little.
 
First, I did not receive build orders from Systrion. As a result, I was stuck with trying to keep something of a schedule around this, so I looked to the Redscape house rules on defaults (at least how I've seen judges there handle this). That's where the army in Sevestopol came from. If Systrion insists on playing on, I'll need a resubmission of the build order and a replacement for Germany (seeing as Stapel has withdrawn).
 
I don't really want to play now either, what with school starting now. If you want to give it to Keirador, go ahead. I won't force a game to continue.

And I thought I submitted orders? I check every two days for deadlines. Oh well, sorry. Oh, and people gots to stop putting an extra s in my name.
 
Then it's official, congradulations Keirador.

PS, Sorry about the spelling Syterion. I spell horribly some times...
 
Second CivDip game, second solo. ;)
Of course, my third game, Getting the Ball Rolling, actually concluded first, but I claim victory in that one, too.
kittenOFchaos said:
Keirador is pretty good at this game
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The only compliment I've ever seen you give, I believe. I feel honored.
kittenOFchaos said:
Had Keirador bigger cahonies [sic :p ] he'd have already scragged Russia when myself and Germany were doing such a disruptive job with so little.
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I stand by my loyalty.
Firstly, I'd far prefer to simply race Syterion to the 18, or have a two-way draw then stab him, after he'd been such a good ally and all.
Secondly, I would have been able to nab 3-4 centers from him within a year had I stabbed. That quite simply would not have been enough, especially when he still had a Southern fleet. A stab became exponentially more possible with the Southern fleet disbanded, but even without it, the fact of the matter was that I did not have a majority of centers, and I'm quite positive that had Syterion been forced into war with me, you three minds working together could have stymied me. Not destroyed me, but made me take many steps backward. My western front was secure, but with you keeping constant pressure on the west, Germany and Russia could have ground me down in the Balkans. Assuming you three made no mistakes, and neither did I, the best I could hope for from a stab was to partake in a 4-way. I'd far prefer a two-player split.


EDIT: I never actually eliminated kitten, though. That was my first goal, and my one regret.
 
End of game analysis - England - kittenOFchaos

As England my greatest fear was a Franco-German Alliance that would finish me off. Considering my reputation, that is made all the more likely ;)

However, I was able to ensure that wouldn't happen and so it was then decision time and as France was responsive I decided to work with them against Germany. The first big move was my landing in Holland to prevent Germany getting three centers. At the same time I convinced the Germans to bounce the Russians in Sweden. The result? Well, it would mean Russia would be on my side against Germany a Nation I had chosen to attack.

Therefore in Year 1901, my diplomacy was working well and was top-notch.


Spring 1902 didn't go aswell as the Germans bounced my fleet from the North Sea whilst I was geting into Heligoland. That disruption slowed my attack to a standstill really and caused oh so many problems. However, the Russian was all over Germany so things were looking good for a quick result.

Looking over at the Italian now (something I didn't care about at this stage before) the Austrian obviously chose to work with Italy and Italy used the agreement to the full even though she was wide open. Here Austria must have somehow given a clue to Italy that they could strip and bend over for the soap and not get buggered even if they insulted their man-hood. I probably also didn't care for Italy that much as at the time I was destroying another Italian who got up my nose.


Fall 1902. Judging that Russia would sweep through Germany quickly, the end being nigh for them it was time for a stab in St.Petersburg so I remain strong in relation to France and before it is too late.


Spring 1903 - Russian NMR and this caused the failure of the destruction of Germany and a waste of time. THIS did more than anything else to ruin my game with results that have now been apparent.

Fall 1903 - Turkey commits suicide and gives Italy the change to become very strong and look for other avenues. THIS was the second most critical problem that bit me in the ass eventually. Oh yes, we got the third worst thing when France ignored my advice and kept an army in Gascony versus putting in Marseilles. The result is that France soon lost a center to Italy and that with one or two things led to the eventual demise of France as a real power.

1903 was the killer year really and the scarey thing as a player is none of it was something I could help. I had advised the French, but they ignored that part of my advice, the Turk was mental and the Russian player NMR'ed. What could I do? :confused:


So, Spring 1904 France lost Marseilles the rot followed despite my effects to sort out a stalemate line. My commitments in the North against Russia and Germany (successful, but slow) and a Franch fleet in the Channel meant I couldn't simply take on France and get centers there to fight Italy later. I had to work in a pair with all the problems that brings. Austria is still serving Italy.


Till miid 1905 the situation was appalling. The German/Russian had pushed me out of many centers in Scandanvia. The Germans were in Burgundy and the Italians were trumping the French forces and Ambuel was "away" somewhere.

At some point the Russian leadership had changed to Syterion and the end of communication and the start of a war without end with Russia. The previous Russian was well-played but for an NMR to destroy Germany to mutual benefit, the new one was going to grind me down.


Somehow by Winter 1905 I had got a block in the Atlantic against the Italian - not great, but something. I had Sweden and Norway somehow and a hope Austria would attack Italy before they were made extinct. Austria at no point of strength realised that she needed to be aggressive and take out a neighbour, alone if need be.


By Winter 1906 things had come to pass that the Atlantic line had been breached and the French were collapsing. The result, I needed to talk to the "newish" German Leader who had continued the War against me and take bold action. That bold action held the Italian for a long, long time and if two things (France helping us recently) and against Austria having moved with her last move to Tyrolia and not Vienna we Anglo/Germans would been able to get a properly secure line against the Italians in the West. With that, I think the line in the East could have been formed as we had smashed the Russians in the North and had a VERY successful raid into the heart of Russia.


The end game really with the Austrians failing to help us with the move to Tyrolia, the pressure on Munich was then so great we couldn't use Munich to help sort the line out in France and the French were unreliable at this time. The consequence was that when Russia chose to let Italy into Munich (known as the MOST important center deciding a solo by so many as it is a pivot) the result was known to some degree and Stapel was beyond trying and to some extent I was too feeling Keirador had done all that was expected to get a solo.



This game posed a great difficulty. That of the affaires of the Balkans producing a Russia and Italy strong enough to hurt myself and France. Without the insane move by the Turk, the new Russian Tsar wouldn't have caused so much trouble for me, the Italian couldn't have dealt so easily with the French at a time EVERY unit was needed against Germany.

Keirador used Austria very well, in the fashion I was kinda using France despite to all appearances on the map that her country was more powerful. The difference being that Italy betrayed Austria something rotten to win, whilst I took a slice of France twice when needed to help prevent/slow that Italian win. Once my French ally was broken, I got a new one in Germany to fight for me and themselves and it worked remarkably well given the horrific situation. The problem came having still that French army in Paris and a tricky position in the Atlantic defence for some reason I forget about (we had to move South at one point letting NAO open).



Gosh, what alot of writing. In brief, this game was decided by tough German resistance to my plans, a Russian NMR, a foolish Turkish move, Italy making full use of an Alliance with Austria to get units free that hurt France when Germany needed to be beaten. The game finished as Italy used Russia to shatter the resolve (not the strength really) of the Anglo-German Alliance and here we are, with Keirador a proud winner.

Best moment in the game for me had to be the initial counter-strike when I got Germany as an Ally. To go into Moscow and burn that down, then Warsaw to be taken too and the Italians having to slog in the Atlantic when I had lost the North Sea. What a turn-around. The most depressing moment was when the French ignored all but one move I advised so gifting Marseilles to Italy.

kitten out!

:king:
 
EoG: Austria -

Well, I started my first CivDip with both Italy and Turkey looking for Greece. I knew I'd be pulled in to the conflict, so I chose a side. I thought that Turkey and Austria would definitly clash later in the game, so I chose Italy. I helped him into Greece, and the war began.

Russia got into the conflict, and I thought three powers against one was better. How wrong I was. It just made Russia stronger. I hoped to get Constantinople and Bulgaria, but was finally forced to only Bulgaria. Of course, Bulgaria was needed for the final stab of Russia later. But Turkey reconquered Bulgaria because Russia NMRed, and he was supposed to go into the Black. That was 1 of the 4 'bad' happenings of the game for me. But Russia somehow convinced Turkey to support him into Bulgaria. That was 2 of the 4 'bad' happenings of the game, at least for me. Then I asaulted Rumania, taking it. But it was soon lost. I was loosing land fast to the Russian

And I wasn't blind to the north. The German wasn't exactly helping later on in the campaign against Russia, rather fruitlessly attacking England. #3 of the 4 'bad' happenings for me. The German attacking Warsaw would have freed units away from the Galician front.

Finally, the eve of the major breakthrough. If you check back on the page I am about to mention, if my moves had gone unhindered, I would have recaptured Serbia. But the Italian had other plans. He stabbed me, claiming (his exact words): "A dead Austria is better than a weak one. Austria cannot just be a buffer between Russia and Italy." Better my ***. Then I was promply eliminated. #4 of the 4 'bad' happenings.

I was really annoyed at Russia. You let Italy have the win! In Diplomacy there is no honor for Second, or Third place. A stab would have maybe gotten you the win. Bad show, really.

Congratulations Italy, for both a great game and a great negotiator...

...as we can see with Russia.

-----

It was fun while it lasted.

I hope to play more CivDip games here. Thanks Arminius, and Gnarf, for GMing.

Cheers from the Dreaded Dreadnought!
 
Dreadnought said:
But the Italian had other plans. He stabbed me, claiming (his exact words): "A dead Austria is better than a weak one. Austria cannot just be a buffer between Russia and Italy."
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When did I say that? Are you sure those were my exact words?
 
Dreadnought said:
Keirador you really like pounding me to the ground, don't you!

I just noticed you were Turkey in GtBR, and you got me there too! :(
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Oh, that's unfair. I didn't even know that that was you I was pounding in GtbR. If you'll recall, I thought you were Italy.
 
Fall 1903 from the Turkish perspective:

Basically, Italy and Austria were bound and determined to carve me up. My only option seemed to be to prostitute myself before the Russians. Unfortunately, I failed to account that by doing so, I would get screwed like a White House intern, and not live long enough to collect (even if it was only survival).

Secondly, in GtBR, I was France, and you, Dreadnaught (Italy, IIRC) moved on me early on, forcing me to commit forces South when I needed them in the north (between England and Germany). It was only the threats from Sultan Keirador that kept me from taking you out and trying to cut a deal with Austria or Russia...
 
Well, I stand by my actions. I had no way to win, and I wasn't about to play it safe and go for some pansy 3-way draw. After trying to communicate with Germany on a stab of Italy, and no response, I had no choice but to wait until Italy broke through German defense to stab(you'll find in my moves which I did send that I did do that). That way the German would concentrate on stopping Italy, which would weaken both of them and strengthen me. From there I'd go.

I know that from the opposite perspective I seemed oblivious. But I was just trying to do what was the best for me, not what would be worst for Keirador, two different things for me. And he was the only one to actually reach out to me when I came in to the game, my loyalty he had. The Englishman also communicated, but he was focused on Germany and I wanted Austria out of the picture(I stabbed him later, which was fun ;)). I was planning of stabbing Keirador after Austria was out of the way, but that was delayed too far.

In conclusion, fun game for me, until all the diplomacy bogged down. Seeing what kitten was planning really made me wish I had attacked Germany early, but I felt that would open me up too much to the Austrian, who I think never trusted me, and I never trusted him. Sorry Dreadnought, all's fair and all that jazz.
 
Drawing green meant that I had quite a bit of work cut out for me. Italy is notoriously hard to win with, but I'd never played her before and was determined to do my best. There are two key aspects that I kept in mind while playing Italy. The first was strategic: I believe quick, rapid growth is essential. Unlike powers like Russia or France that may bide their time, Italy simply cannot afford to not always be growing. If Italy is going to win, it had best do it quickly, or not at all. The second was diplomatic: Aggresive, almost blustering press was necessary in the early game. Italy has a tendency to be ignored and overlooked on the Diplomacy board, and that is a blessing and a curse. Being ignored by clever, powerful foes is great. Being ignored by possible allies is not so cool. To ameliorate the negative effects of being ignored, and enhance the positive effects of being, my initial diplomacy was loud, blustery, somewhat obnoxious. Experienced and confident players discount this as foolish, sabre-rattling indicative of ameteurs, and continue to ignore. Less experienced, somewhat more malleable players tend to take the blustering at face value, and will more likely regard you as an active player and an ally, rather than as an after-thought.

Before powers were even assigned, I had one major goal: the speedy elimination or marginalization of kittenOFchaos. I viewed him as my largest competition. I have reviewed some of his past games, and have played a game with him as my GM. I knew, therefore, that not only was his personal playing style effective and tactically sound, but that he had fairly good instincts, and a rather unpleasant ability to rally people to his cause. I knew that should he survive, he would set up a "stop the leader" alliance to prevent my complete victory. Finding myself several countries away from him, I disappointedly accepted the idea that it would be almost impossible to eliminate him early, and set out marginalizing him. I had to immediately ensure that there would be at least a few powers on the board who would never cooperate with him, even if it meant losing the game. This was done diplomatically; my first targets of propaganda were Austria and Germany, and later, to a lesser extent, the new Russian.

My original alliance, therefore, was a remake of Bismarck's Triple Alliance: Italy, Austria, and Germany. My plan was that the original German, Taliesin, would try to cooperate with France to destroy England, while I took out Turkey and Austria fought Russia.

The first thing that went wrong, obviously, was that Germany found itself not the attacker, but the beseiged. I went to war with France immediately on Taliesin's behalf.

The second thing that changed my plan was the replacement of Sheep with Syterion, a clever, capable player willing to go to war with England, and relent against Germany. Germany could not fight Russia and England both, so Russia became my ally. Now, Turkey was gone at this point, and Austria was hemmed in by three allies- Russia, Germany, and I.

A solution presented itself when the third thing went wrong. Taliesin grew distant and noncommital in Diplomacy. He was betraying me, I knew it. I sent him an unsubtle and callous invitation to attack Austria, a perfect temptation. He passed the note on to Austria, who had specific instructions to reveal any propaganda attempts to me immediately. Thus knowing Taliesin's black-hearted intentions, I organized Russia and Austria into an alliance to oppose what I saw as a coming Western Triple. This, I thought, was a solution to the whole "have two allies who are mutually exclusive" problem.

Then, Taliesin was replaced by Stapel, and things once more grew foggy. Stapel, if you'll all recall, originally appeared to be willing to fight England, and his first moves seemed to colloborate this. Once again it was a G/I/R, and Austria wanted to fight Russia. I had little choice but to stab Austria, Syterion can testify that I was pretty conflicted about it. It was not just that Syterion was highly loyal and incredibly adept at the game (remember, folks, he's brand new), it was simply geographically impossible for Austria to further the G/I/R alliance in any way. Once it was clear that Stapel was against me, it was too late for Austria.

It was just Russia and me against the world, and though we suffered some setbacks, we could have done it easily. Too much of the Anglo-German force was locked up as useless units around Scandinavia that could not have been effectively deployed in the field. It may have been slow going, but I figured at least one continental center would fall to me every year, along with gains made by Russia, and, if I was lucky, a landing on the British Isle. I would have by no means stabbed Russia; only defended myself from such a stab.
Russia, I believe, could not have effectively stabbed me once their Southern fleet was disbanded. It would have taken me only a few units to lock up my western border, and the remainder could be effectively deployed against Russia. Russia may have made some initial headway through Austria, but our armies would have stalled out within two years. However, fleetpower would have enabled me to infiltrate the Black Sea and secure the Balkans, Turkey, and southern Russia. A Russian stab would have, if anything, hastened my victory, in my opinion.

Thanks to all for a great game, and especially to Gnarfflinger for taking over in a crunch and doing such an admirable job, so that this game could continue.
 
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