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Civic changes

Discussion in 'RFC mod-mod: Classical World' started by Swarbs, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    990
    I think some of the civics in the mod are very well balanced, and offer good choices depending on your goals and situations. But some are not so well balanced, and it seems you always end up choosing one civic and ignoring the others. In my opinion:

    Government:
    Generally well balanced - Monarchy for large armies, Oligarchy for GP, Empire for large empires. But I feel Theocracy is a little underpowered, with the war weariness and lack of spread of non state religions not really competing with the happiness benefits of Monarchy and Oligarchy.
    Proposal:
    Theocracy adds +1:) for cities with state religion


    Legal
    Well balanced imo. Tyranny for max city size, Vassalage for large armies, Religious Law for GP, Bureaucracy for large empires.


    Labour:
    Probably the least balanced imo. Slavery is very strong, Caste System is worse than useless, and Serfdom and Wage Labour are good, but even in the late game aren't generally better than Slavery. Caste System is poor because civs that need to run priests can often build temples, and thus run priests that way without a -50% penalty. As the Mauryans, for example, you can run two priests in Pataliputra from the start and get a GS in 50 turns, or spend 15 turns building a temple (quicker if you get slaves) then run two priests and get a GS in 25 turns. The +2 XP don't really balance the massive benefits of slaves for improving, adding to cities and rushing buildings imo.
    Proposal:
    Caste System only has -25%:gp:. That way it's worth staying in Caste System as the Mauryans and getting a GS in 33 turns rather than going straight for Slavery.
    Serfdom adds +1:hammers: to towns.
    Wage Labour adds +2:commerce: to towns.
    The last two are designed to make these worthwhile choices over Slavery in the late game, when towns should be more common, and to help make towns more valuable given the -1:food:.


    Economy
    Well balanced imo. Agrarianism for GP, Trade Economy for economy, Patronage for culture, Military Economy for war.


    Religion
    Generally well balanced. Tho' Dynastic Cult seems a bit underpowered - the extra :commerce: in capital is balanced by the medium upkeep, and the :mad: from religions can be annoying if you get a religion appearing in a city where you haven't needed to build a monument, or get two religions in a city. Also, religious freedom should get a science bonus imo, to make it more appealing.
    Proposal:
    Dynastic Cult gives +2:) from Monument
    Religious Freedom gives +10%:science:
     
  2. srpt

    srpt Deist

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,025
    Location:
    Toronto
    those are good ideas.

    Caste System -25% GP sounds good

    Theocracy +1 happy from state religion sounds good

    Serfdom has whipping. I don't want to give it a town bonus since its supposed to be anti towns and trade

    Dynastic cult is not supposed to be competitive with state religion. I think I would rather increase the gold in capital than the happiness from monuments. Dynatic cult civs are usually running Tyranny as well.

    +10% science for religious freedom sounds good
     
  3. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    990
    Ok, but I think it needs some sort of bonus to make it preferable to slavery. At the moment slavery wins every time, as the lack of food in the mod means slave rushing is far better than whipping in the long term. And serfdom essentially meant that population was forced labour, so I thought the town bonus was appropriate, as the cities will essentially be able to use the population of the towns as free labour, thus generating more production.

    I don't think the changes would make it competitive with state religion - DC with a monument and religion would give +1 happiness, which is the same as SR, and SR gives the bonus to building production. But increasing the commerce would also be a good solution to make DC a bit more desirable.
     

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