Should we switch civics to slavery when it comes available?
Civics Discussion - switch to Slavery when available?
- Thread starter DaveShack
- Start date
Chillaxation
Warlord
DaveShack said:
There's no downside. We get lower upkeep, don't need to worry about anarchy, and the ability to rush-build.
RegentMan
Deity
Let us oppress. Adopt slavery!
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
I don't know if I'd advocate whipping our citizens, but there are some other benefits (lower upkeep) that are nice.
-- Ravensfire
-- Ravensfire
GeorgeOP
RF Bleachers
I don't know about the lower upkeep, but I favor any and all forms of oppressing our people. 
robboo
Deity
I say switch..as long as we are not racing for a certain tech or wonder or settler. In other words switch when it wont hurt us. As far as whipping our citizens...as long as its not me being whipped 
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Slavery today, slavery tommorow, SLAVERY FOR EVER!!!!!!!!!
Donovan Zoi
The Return
This is where the game should become fun. Are we going to play it by the numbers or are we going to take a stand on moral issues that face our government? Regrettably, it so far looks like the former.
With that said, let me state for the record that we should steer clear of this abhorrent practice no matter what the benefits may be. I would like to think that we as a nation are better than that.
With that said, let me state for the record that we should steer clear of this abhorrent practice no matter what the benefits may be. I would like to think that we as a nation are better than that.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
*points a DZ* He looks fit, i'll give you two pigs and 13 gold peices for him.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Swissempire said:*points a DZ* He looks fit, i'll give you two pigs and 13 gold peices for him.
donsig, don't you dare take that offer.
We may actually get a case at the Judiciary at some point this term!
Chillaxation
Warlord
Donovan Zoi said:
Any tribesmen that join our nation and are not citizen-born freeholders of Licentia must begin to take their place within our social order. Would you prefer the exclusivity with which our traditions of work treat those who are not of our tribe? I say that racial isolationism is militaristic no matter what way you slice it. If we didn't enslave the barbarians, they would enslave us even as we told ourselves that our current tribalism is just.
When I said there are no downsides, I meant economic or moral. In the end, enslavement frees the barbarians who come to us for work - frees them from unhappiness. Frees them from want. Frees them from an indolent life, blown about by the vagaries of famine and plenty like leaves on the wind. Just as we save their lives through slavery, they give them to us. It is brutal - but less brutal than our unfeeling tribalism? Can any of us even imagine any other choices beyond these? Perhaps, far in the future, we will conceive of ways to order our people without enslavement. But utter tribal isolation is not a kinder order.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Who says it has to be racial slavery. Many nations have had debt slavery and nationial slavery, or just conquered slavery!
Personal note: In my own games I use the civic (for low upkeep) but usually not the whip.
Civics choices matter for more than just the upkeep and the ability to rush production. Sometimes the AI's will have a good attitude if they agree with your civics choices, and sometimes a bad attitude if they don't like your civics. Refusing to change civics also gives them a bad attitude.
Not that we should pander for the sake of pandering, but if we use the civic then nobody will be asking us to change to it. We won't have to upset them by refusing, and we won't have to impact our timing on something else by taking an anarchy turn at a bad time.
in-game and do things they would never consider doing out of game. There's the rush of doing something which would normally be forbidden by society. Role-playing would suggest that we immerse ourselves in ancient Egypt which would mean whip 'em till they drop. 
Civics choices matter for more than just the upkeep and the ability to rush production. Sometimes the AI's will have a good attitude if they agree with your civics choices, and sometimes a bad attitude if they don't like your civics. Refusing to change civics also gives them a bad attitude.
Not that we should pander for the sake of pandering, but if we use the civic then nobody will be asking us to change to it. We won't have to upset them by refusing, and we won't have to impact our timing on something else by taking an anarchy turn at a bad time.
OTOH for some people it's kinda fun sometimes to beDonovan Zoi said:
in-game and do things they would never consider doing out of game. There's the rush of doing something which would normally be forbidden by society. Role-playing would suggest that we immerse ourselves in ancient Egypt which would mean whip 'em till they drop. 
Heh. Interesting thinking DZ but as DaveShack said this was a cold reality for centuries. We're still barbaric in many ways at that point in the game. Maybe we should vote whether the whip is an option. The civic makes sense though.
Nomad Bryce
Innovian UU Cannon Turtle
No slavery! Lets beat the AI without resorting to immorality!
Black_Hole
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 3,424
How dare the thought of whippping our citizens even enter our heads!
I am ashamed at these thoughts and the people that brought them forward.
You will be hearing from me if this goes forward.
I am ashamed at these thoughts and the people that brought them forward.
You will be hearing from me if this goes forward.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
We need a lower class, and if we don't enslave others and enemies, then who shall we force to work if the need arises. Who shall toil? You, me, or these stinking foreigners or yellow cowards or those who try to shirk there debts!
Also this is not immoral since there is nothing currently dicovered that is more moral than this. It brings a semblence of structure to our chaotic soceity! Slavery is a step forward. And... I... Need... A... BUTLER!!!
Also this is not immoral since there is nothing currently dicovered that is more moral than this. It brings a semblence of structure to our chaotic soceity! Slavery is a step forward. And... I... Need... A... BUTLER!!!
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
hmm.. While in a previous life, I have used the whip before in a beat-down of Whomp (I can't leave that one alone 
) I think that we should hold off on this practice for now.
If you haven't noticed yet the higher pop cities are more expensive to pop-rush things out of. It makes more economical sense to only pop-rush from pop4 and below. I haven't run the numbers yet, but there is a point at which the food bin is So big to get to the next population that you don't get the benefit out of it.
I personally would like to have as high of a population in our cities as possible. So no whipping. If we adopt slavery and are not using the whip, then that could only mean that we are sending native Egyptians to other countries to be slaves. SwissEmpire has made it evident that he supports the practice.
) I think that we should hold off on this practice for now. If you haven't noticed yet the higher pop cities are more expensive to pop-rush things out of. It makes more economical sense to only pop-rush from pop4 and below. I haven't run the numbers yet, but there is a point at which the food bin is So big to get to the next population that you don't get the benefit out of it.
I personally would like to have as high of a population in our cities as possible. So no whipping. If we adopt slavery and are not using the whip, then that could only mean that we are sending native Egyptians to other countries to be slaves. SwissEmpire has made it evident that he supports the practice.
robboo
Deity
I say whip if we need it....as in we are about to get crushed. It does no good to take a moral high ground if you are dead.
Other things to think about if you want to take a moral high ground....Do we attack or wait to be attacked? Do we burn cities? Pillage cottages( people in there in theory)? Do we develop the Nuke and threathen our neighbors? Do we ask for tribute? Do we completely take over another Civ?
In my mind if you accept one of these you accept them all.
/back to quietly standing in the corner.
Other things to think about if you want to take a moral high ground....Do we attack or wait to be attacked? Do we burn cities? Pillage cottages( people in there in theory)? Do we develop the Nuke and threathen our neighbors? Do we ask for tribute? Do we completely take over another Civ?
In my mind if you accept one of these you accept them all.
/back to quietly standing in the corner.
