Civics-Stability question

Genghis Tron

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
11
I guess this isnt really RAND specific, but Im playing my first RAND game and this is the first time ive been able to see the actual numbers behind my stability.

Im playing as England and ive tried out a few different Civics combinations but I always seem to be somewhere in the area of -18 to -21 in the Civics category even though it shows 3 stars. (This is after the temporary instability from changing civics goes away.)

Overall my civ is still solid thanks to high economy & foreign ratings but is it normal to have such a large negative number in the civics category? Or are my subjects unhappy with my choice of government?
 

Shadowhal

Warlord
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
234
well, the others can certainly give much better explanations, but some combinations are bad ideas. I found free speech with slavery not a particularly good idea and I figure it wont work too nicely with police state either. you can check out the rhye wiki if you want further details or just play around a bit. mostly, I'd say common sense should help determine which combinations cause instability.

that said, it is still strange to have a - 20 rating, but three stars in that category. no idea how that could be. you said you were out of that temporary civ change instability, right?
 

Genghis Tron

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
11
Yeah, after i switch civics it will dip into the -40s :eek:

But now that i look at it, i dont think its totaling the numbers correctly.
1-16+13+6+7 = 11.. right? Not 37? :crazyeye:

Am I missing something here?
 

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onedreamer

Dragon
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Oct 21, 2004
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6,580
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Torino - Italia
maybe permanent modifiers are not shown except in the total number.
Btw, read the guide on civics for stability on the wiki. It is hard to have a negative value of Civics, since they are the most controllable of stability groups. You just have to pay attention to their rules.
 

Genghis Tron

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
11
maybe permanent modifiers are not shown except in the total number.
Btw, read the guide on civics for stability on the wiki. It is hard to have a negative value of Civics, since they are the most controllable of stability groups. You just have to pay attention to their rules.

So its normal for those numbers to not add up to the total stability rating?

Im still not sure how i could have 3 stars for civics and be -16 to -20 though...

The only changes ive made to RAND are the addition of Varietas Delectat for Rhye's and Fall and I changed to 5% commerce increments instead of 10% in the GlobalDefines file.

I wouldnt think that either of those would affect stabilty, but Im not sure.
 

Genghis Tron

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
11
Ive read the wiki on stability, and tried a few different civics combos... i still seem to be getting these negative numbers no matter what i try.

That screenshot was taken with Representation/Free Speech/Free Religion/Environmentalism/Commonwealth. And its been quite a while since my last revolution so the temporary instability should be gone by now i would think...
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
The ranges for the numbers are not equal. For example, expansion 1 star could mean -100, civics 5 stars could just be +13. And there's permanent stability that is carried over. Usually a 5 star economy is >35-40 while if you have a negative expansion of -100 that could easily trump economy.

Your combination does not have a lot to go for (no "synergy")--even though it may make sense in real life for

representation (or US)/Free Speech/Free Religion/Environmentalism/Commonwealth

to have some bonuses, there isn't as much as

police state/nationhood/state property (or mercantilism)

 

sedna17

Emperor
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
1,091
So its normal for those numbers to not add up to the total stability rating?

Perfectly normal. There are stability factors which are not in any of the five categories.

Im still not sure how i could have 3 stars for civics and be -16 to -20 though...

Each category has different limits on what the number of stars mean! 3 stars in civics means you're between 0 and 25. 3 stars on cities means you're between -10 and 30.

AnotherPacifist is right that nothing beats police state/nationhood/state property (or mercantilism), but Civics stability is easily analyzed, so let's do that for your example.

Representation has no synergy with your other civics, but has a penalty for a empire size (anything over 3 cities), capped at -7. Assuming you have a decent sized empire, you'll be at -7.

Code:
 max(-7,2*(3 - pPlayer.getNumCities())).

You also presumably have the tech Democracy. If you have this tech and aren't in Univeral Suffrage it's -3. You're at -10 now.

Free speech. No influence (you would have -3 if you weren't in it).

Free religion. Synergy with emancipation if you're in it, see below.

Environmentalism. No effect.

Commonwealth. No effect on Civis stability.

Total stability > 30. +5 from being in representation. Total = -5. Although, this bonus is applied every 3 turns. I'm assuming you're posting this after coming out of anarchy and have thus had 1, but only 1, bonus from this influence.

Labor. You don't say. If you're not in emancipation you get -3, -8. If you are in emancipation then you get +2 with free religion, for a total of -3.

The only other things that go in here is a temporary -20 for 7 turns after switching to Universal Suffrage and a hit from anarchy. Ah... I see... a portion of the anarchy penalty accumulates and is counted here. So, you suffer -3 to your Civics rating for every turn in your game in which you've been in anarchy. Unless (oddly) you're really stable (> +24) when you start your anarchy, in which case you suffer 1/8 of your total stability as a permanent loss.

So assuming you're in emancipation, it all makes sense if you've had roughly four turns ((-16+3)/3) cumulative turns of anarchy during the course of your game, assuming that on at least one of those occasions you were stable before you started your anarchy. Is that possible?
 

Genghis Tron

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
11
:eek:

Wow thats pretty impressive. Yeah i did have emancipation as well, i posted from work and must have forgotten about that one.

I was pretty pleased with myself for being +37 solid but now that i see AP's +76 economy im not so sure anymore. :lol:
 

civhelp121

Prince
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
397
Location
United States
stability is really ruining the fun in this game. I usually do fine with each stability except civics and economy. I think I know what I am doing wrong with civics, but no matter how much cottages and specialized cities I build my economic stability is bad.

Also, I feel like the stability is holding me back. I like to expand, but it seems that if I expand too far then my cities start flipping and my expansion goes down. Then when civs pop up I can't invade too much because my stability goes severly down. So basically I'm stuck in an annoyingly peaceful game in which my economy slowly goes down. I mean, I like peace, I'm usually peaceful in my civ games, but I at least enjoy the idea of war, or the threat of war.
 

Úmarth

Megalomaniac
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
1,184
Location
United Kingdom
Don't stop expanding, you just need to strike the right balance, and have the correct Expansion civic of course. Also, check the interior advisor (F2) to find out specifically which areas are giving you stability problems.
 

Ambassador

Peacemonger
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
442
Location
World
@ Sedna

Is there a place where I can get these recommendations in detail? Anything more detailed than wiki?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
4,878
I think the wiki is detailed enough. Before the current patch I have to look at the code to see what my actions will do, but now you can see turn to turn what your stability changes are, which is more than enough.
 
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