Civil War in Civ1

[TheBee]

Hi you guys!

Great to see there is still a Civ1 forum alive and kicking! I recently found the game again after, oh, fifteen years or so (though I've played lots and lots of SMAC(X), Civ3 and Civ4).

I've played a couple of games and remembered that I used to be able to trigger a civil war among my enemies. It kinda went like this: you needed a big enemy (15-20 cities or so) and capture the enemy's capital as (one of) the first. The rival would then split down the middle in two civs, the loyalists (the original faction) and the rebels (an open color slot). Hilarity ensued...

I've been looking but can't find any mention of its in FAQs or forums. Can any of you tell me if its still there and how to trigger it? Thanks in advance!

 

[XDrake]

The Civil War is an invaluable tool when you are faced with an overwhelming enemy. It is a wonderful time buying tool to catch up or gain ground against an enemy.

-Your civilization MUST be smaller, even if by one city.
-They must have 6+ cities
-They must have a working capital. Look at their demographics if you have an embassy and make sure. If it lists 'NONE', they are a dead civilization.
-They must have a high corruption rate in cities for them to defect. Communism is easy to break up evenly. Often, the cities farthest from the capital (highest corruption) will become rebels.

You'll find if they are large enough they will make a new capital and sometimes you can split them again and again!

 

[TheBee]

Great, thanks!

Where can you get this kind of detailed information? Its not in the manual nor in one of the handful of FAQs/strategy articles I've gone through...

 

[XDrake]

Like most things about Civ, just replaying over and over... Even after 10+ years of playing Civ, things surprise me too. The AI in this game was way ahead of its time and may act stupid sometimes, but seems to figure out when a stategy isn't working and changes it.

 

[XDrake]

I'll elaborate with an example...

I had my small continent surrounded by battleships, submarines, and had a stack of bombers. The ships were sentinel and the Greeks out sent out every unit they could toward me... I must have destroyed 20+ battleships and 8+ transport ships.

And, one year, they just stopped coming.

There wasn't some other enemy... The space race was over and I was playing post-Space Race...

He just stopped.

I had to have went 40+ turns without being touched and spotting a ship coming near me.

Only when I turned on the offensive, sending a carrier loaded with bombers with a few battleships and transports did they begin again. As if 'agitating' the enemy was was brought the constant bombardment back.

Even the way other civilizations determine peace offerings has some formula. You'll definitely get an offer of piece (even if at a price) if you take one of their cities. Sometimes, a time period goes by that isn't exact and they offer it... Sometimes, you crush a lot of units (once again, not an exact number) and they cut their loses and offer peace.

CivNet would have been one of the greatest games ever if it had let you continue after the 'end' where the game stops being scored. Competing against a person will always be better... Competing against a nation smart enough to land in undeveloped areas of your civilization and destroy your settlers trying to tame the land...

Seeing them land and immediately build a fortress to have a secure landing area so they aren't all wiped out in a stack...

Somebody smart enough to set up random fortifications at choke points or in mountains to impede travel and development...

The AI can't match a person, but it seems to have a smarter stategy aside from 'swarm them'. Even then, the game seems to build up a large force and hit you with it at once.

 

[Whelkman]

Where can you get this kind of detailed information?

Rome on 640k a Day covers Civil War and other technical aspects of Civilization. It's usually possible to get the book (with shipping) for a handful of dollars.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

There is another condition for a civilization split to occur: there must be an unused colour. So, if you always play 7 civilizations, at least one needs to be destroyed before a civil war can be triggered.

 

[Whelkman]

There is another condition for a civilization split to occur: there must be an unused colour. So, if you always play 7 civilizations, at least one needs to be destroyed before a civil war can be triggered.

With 7 civilizations, before a certain date (0 BC? I forget), if you destroy one, the alternate appears in its place instantly (i.e. same turn). I don't think you can spawn a third civ of the same color under any circumstance.

 

[Tristan_C]

With 7 civilizations, before a certain date (0 BC? I forget), if you destroy one, the alternate appears in its place instantly (i.e. same turn). I don't think you can spawn a third civ of the same color under any circumstance.

Really?! This only occurs before a certain date? I had no idea, although of course, there certainly isn't much point in the game spawning a new civ in 1500AD (from a challenge perspective)

Furthermore, I can see some logical difficulty in finding a color for a Rebel civilization in any 7-civ game.

 

[Whelkman]

Really?! This only occurs before a certain date?

I'm pretty sure it was done this way to remove the ridiculousness of beating powerful civilizations late in the game then scouring the map to find randomly generated hut dwellers for a hollow victory.

 

[karplus]

The Civil War is an invaluable tool when you are faced with an overwhelming enemy. It is a wonderful time buying tool to catch up or gain ground against an enemy.

-Your civilization MUST be smaller, even if by one city.
-They must have 6+ cities
-They must have a working capital. Look at their demographics if you have an embassy and make sure. If it lists 'NONE', they are a dead civilization.
-They must have a high corruption rate in cities for them to defect. Communism is easy to break up evenly. Often, the cities farthest from the capital (highest corruption) will become rebels.

You'll find if they are large enough they will make a new capital and sometimes you can split them again and again!

There is another condition for a civilization split to occur: there must be an unused colour. So, if you always play 7 civilizations, at least one needs to be destroyed before a civil war can be triggered.

With 7 civilizations, before a certain date (0 BC? I forget), if you destroy one, the alternate appears in its place instantly (i.e. same turn). I don't think you can spawn a third civ of the same color under any circumstance.

I confirm all these conditions and i add a new one:
to split an empire you have to conquer its capital but it MUST be the first city that you take to that empire.
Altough i never succeeded in split more than one empire for game.

 

[XDrake]

I confirm all these conditions and i add a new one:
to split an empire you have to conquer its capital but it MUST be the first city that you take to that empire.
Altough i never succeeded in split more than one empire for game.

You can sack other cities long before the capital and still ignite a civil war. You just can't destroy/take so many cities it keeps them from having more than you.

Also, you can do multiple civil wars. Say you hit Rome and the civilization splits. More than likely they moved to a new capital. If you have an embassy you can see where. If they are still big enough after the first civil war, you can split them AGAIN.

Yes, you need a color vacant. And yes, in the beginning a civilization color gets 1 respawn, which ends after a year I am uncertain of. It could be 1AD, but I just haven't paid attention to that.

Also, even though a color is free, another civilization (a bug?) that exists may get the cities. Say the orange Romans are on the map and you cause a civil war. The Russians, also orange, break off and have the defecting cities and the old Roman civilization. It has happened enough times with CivWin that it is a common occurrence.

 

[remzi]

It is possible to split more than one empire for game, but all of the conditions mentioned above have to be fulfilled in each case.

 

[timtofly]

Can it happen if you use a spy to destroy the palace without capturing the city?

Does it also depend on how much gold they have? It seems if they have have enough gold, they could instantly build one or more palaces, creating a split civ.

 

[Revenant]

As far as I can remember spies (diplomats) can't sabotage the palace

 

[Renergy]

I have been playing civ quite a bit, yet I didn't know about this up until recently. So for anyone interested in quickly experiencing empire splitting/civil war (by taking out a capital) "in real civ" please find .sve and .map attached.

Tenochtitlan is within range of a nuclear and an Armor is parked nearby. Aztecs will split into blue civ ("respawning" French and/or "emerging" Germans).

Have fun!

 

[Pat_Hirtle]

One of the most frustrating things in the world, when you're outgunned by a much more powerful opponent is to load up on units, take a capital, for a civil war and, then, come to discover that even for all your efforts, that stronger AI opponent whose capital you just took is still stronger. Oh, and now you have a war on two fronts. Oh, and you don't have the units to hold the capital, so those pesky Russians are just going to retake Moscow next turn. Dang it.

 

[Jaimstastud]

If you take a capital with a Diplomat, that works too, right? Does their Palace just get destroyed?

 

[simonnomis]

You can't incite a revolt in the capital city, and you can't use a diplomat (or caravan) to take a defenceless city.

 

[Ranger1977]

Pat, in my experience, when a civ splits, one is neutral and the other still at war with you. But it can still be frustrating sometimes because the cities of the nation at peace with you - and you want them to stay that way - now block your invasion force from getting to the cities you can attack.

Xdrake, thanks for the details. I've wondered why I haven't been able to trigger a civil war in a long time; it's because I've got more cities.

The Bee, part of the fun/frustration of Civ is that most of the good stuff is not in the documentation. You find it out by playing. I remember my surprise and elation the first time I split a very large enemy civ.

The game designers were brilliant. The AI senses when it isn't winning and call off it's attacks - or offers a cease-fire - until it gets better technology.