Civilitas Firearms Act - Discussion and Ideas Thread

[Smidgey]

Now, before anyone says anything, I know this bill is probably full of spaces and I have deliberately not tried to complete it. I would like to get as much information on improving and updating it as possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated and any endorsements of the bill once we have come up with a completed version will be most welcome. Here is what I have so far:

Civilitas Firearms Act (September 2007)

A firearm shall be defines as:

A device that may be used as a weapon which fires a projectile as a result of an explosion of a propellant or fuel, thereby producing gases which, as a result of compression, cause propulsion of the projectile.

This firearm legislation will also include all tension weapons (e.g. bow, crossbow or slingshot) as well as all spring firing weapons which have the ability to cause serious bodily harm.

Article 1: Individual Gun Rights and Ownership:

Section 1: No individual under the age of 18 may lawfully own or possess a firearm.
Section 2: Nobody who has been imprisoned for a violent crime can legally possess a firearm unless a judge has granted that allowance or ten years have passed since leaving prison. A judge, upon further review, may extend this ten year allowance in a court session.
Section 3: None who have been diagnosed with a mental illness that can result in moderate or severe impairment of judgement or a mental illness that can cause bouts of insanity or violence may lawfully own a firearm. This may be circumvented by the permit of a judge on the medical advice of three psychiatrists who are specialised in this field.
Section 4: Any who do not belong under sections 1, 2 or 3 of article 1 may lawfully possess a firearm.

Article 2: Firearm Sale and Purchase:

Section 1: Permits for private institutions wishing to sell firearms shall be reduced by the federal government to the regional level. Each state may decide its own permit legislation.
Section 2: Each state must submit to the federal government all details of those who have purchased a firearm with a previous criminal record or record of mental illness as described in Article 1 section 3.

That's what I have so far. I know there is a lot missing. Some things to think about: explosives, say grenades, dynamite or RPG's. Some of these may actually be used by the government or private companies (especially grenades in the military or explosives in mining). So we need to think about adding another article concerning weapons manufacture. We also need to think about education, whether we should include it in this bill or within the education bill when we do the national curriculum. Thirdly, we also need to think about explosive bullets.

Any suggestions and additions are greatly welcomed.

 

[Splime]

Sounds alright, but we should really ban automatic weapons.

 

[Equuleus]

Please include background checks.
+ a 2 month waiting/ safety training period.

 

[The Ninja]

Explosive bullets should be banned, as they currently are (IIRC) by the geneva convention. In fact, High power explosives have no reason to be in the hands of the average citizen anyway. What, self defense? So you would defend yourself by blowing everyone within 20 feet of you to smithereens?

I also support some sorf of training program, not sure if in school or prior to gun purchase yet.

The Ninja

 

[Smidgey]

I can include background checks, that is fair enough - since we will have to check if the person has or does suffer from a mental illness or has been in prison and so forth. I'm not entirely certain about the two month waiting period though, isn't this a bit arbitrary, surely we should just make it so that once the background check is done the gun can be bought? If it takes 1 week or two months.

Explosive bullets should be banned, as they currently are (IIRC) by the geneva convention. In fact, High power explosives have no reason to be in the hands of the average citizen anyway. What, self defense? So you would defend yourself by blowing everyone within 20 feet of you to smithereens?

Yes, this part wasn't so much for individual use and I would be fine making this illegal - however, should we include manufacture and military use in this bill? Since we can have companies manufacturing hand grenades and RPG's for the military, however, we are going to have to try very hard to figure out some really nifty piece of legislation to stop some sort of military industrial complex arising. If explosive bullets are banned by the Geneva convention then we should not allow them to be manufactured or sold - the same goes with land mines.

I also support some sorf of training program, not sure if in school or prior to gun purchase yet.

Perhaps it could be done very late in school - like the Swiss system. Perhaps students could require a certification upon completion of the course. However, some students will obviously leave when their compulsory education ends, before they can lean about firearm safety (I don't think we should be teaching 16 year olds about firearm safety), perhaps then they may need to take another course, say a few hours long, and then present the pass certificate upon purchase. I find the education issue a strange one since it is hard to balance freedom and safety. The main factors I think to reducing crime are to stress education and economic prosperity and not whether individuals own guns or not, so we need to find the best way of going about the education aspect, since we certainly cannot control the economic aspect from a firearms law.

These are interesting ideas Equuleus and Ninja. I will certainly take them on board, thanks.

 

[Smidgey]

This is an updated version:

Civilitas Firearms Act (September 2007)

A firearm shall be defines as:

A device that may be used as a weapon which fires a projectile as a result of an explosion of a propellant or fuel, thereby producing gases which, as a result of compression, cause propulsion of the projectile.

This firearm legislation will also include all tension weapons (e.g. bow, crossbow or slingshot) as well as all spring firing weapons which have the ability to cause serious bodily harm or death.

Article 1: Individual Gun Rights and Ownership:

Section 1: No individual under the age of 18 may lawfully own or possess a firearm.
Section 2: Nobody who has been imprisoned for a violent crime can legally possess a firearm unless a judge has granted that allowance or ten years have passed since leaving prison. A judge, upon further review, may extend this ten year allowance in a court session.
Section 3: None who have been diagnosed with a mental illness that can result in moderate or severe impairment of judgement or a mental illness that can cause bouts of insanity or violence may lawfully own a firearm. This may be circumvented by the permit of a judge on the medical advice of three psychiatrists who are specialised in this field.
Section 4: Any who do not belong under sections 1, 2 or 3 of article 1 may lawfully possess a firearm.

Article 2: Firearm Sale and Purchase:

Section 1: Permits for private institutions wishing to sell firearms shall be reduced by the federal government to the regional level. Each state may decide its own permit legislation.
Section 2: It is up to each individual state to manage and control background checks of firearm buyers. Any retail outlet that sells firearms to a customer without doing a background check for a criminal record or mental condition risks a federal injunction to remove their license from whatever state granted originally granted it.
Section 3: Each state must submit to the federal government all details of those who have purchased a firearm with a previous criminal record or record of mental illness as described in Article 1 section 3.
Section 4: In order for a sale of a firearm to lawfully take place all customers must present a certificate of firearms safety to the person with whom they are doing their sale.

Article 3: Firearms Safety Regulations:

Section 1: It shall be illegal for a citizen of Civilitas to take a gun on government premises without the authority of the management of that establishment.
Section 2: It shall be illegal for a citizen of Civilitas to discharge their weapon on public property without due cause. Due cause for firearm use will be decided upon by the discretion of the judge.
Section 3: It is illegal for a citizen of Civilitas to own explosives which are not authorised by the federal government with the exception of companies which require them for commercial use. This includes TNT, dynamite, land mines, hand grenades, explosive bullets, personal rocket launchers or RPGs and any other such device. Certain explosives will be exempted from this rule by the discretion of each individual state (such as fireworks).
Section 4: In order for a citizen to lawfully purchase a firearm they must posses a certificate of having completed a firearms safety course. This course will be provided as an option in the last year of school for those who wish to stay on past their compulsory education or as a short course at a local or regional college or firing range which has been granted a license to teach the firearm safety course.
Section 5: The government of Civilitas must provide for section 3 in the education budget.

Article 4: Firearms and Weapons in Commercial Production:

Section 1: A private company may lawfully produce weapons that may be banned in other sections of this bill at the discretion of the federal government.
Section 2: A private company is forbidden from selling weapons to private citizens that are banned elsewhere in this bill. If this law is broken the government has the ability to withdraw the allowance of the private company that has made the error to continue to produce weaponry.

EDIT: I am sure there are some holes somewhere so any patching up would be helpful. Also, I need sponsors as well as some help on article 4 which I think is incomplete. I would really like some help coming up with an idea to try and prevent private weapons industries from creating a military industrial complex.

 

[dimaliok]

I will abstain

 

[Red Door]

This isn't a voting thread. Please follow parliamentary procedure.

 

[Splime]

I still think we need an automatic weapons ban. They have no place outside of the military.

 

[Smidgey]

I still think we need an automatic weapons ban. They have no place outside of the military.

I'm not willing to vote for a bill with that in it, so I am not willing to put it in a bill I endorse. I believe the authoritarians are making another firearms bill which can be seen in the guns discussion thread.

 

[Splime]

I'm not willing to vote for a bill with that in it, so I am not willing to put it in a bill I endorse. I believe the authoritarians are making another firearms bill which can be seen in the guns discussion thread.

Here's the thing though: I want a moderate bill. There are dangers top excessively banning guns, but allowing automatic weapons is the other extreme. After all, if you go hunting, an automatic weapon is stupid, and you'd prefer a hunting rifle. For self defense, a pistol would be best - easy to carry, conceal, and fire if necessary.

 

[Leif]

I also lean towards an fully automatic weapon ban, but otherwise I would support and vote for this bill.

 

[Macha]

I will oppose any bill to allow public firearms.

 

[LucyDuke]

Article 1, Section 1: No individual under the age of 18 may lawfully own or possess a firearm.

Possess? Why not? If I want to take my 16-year-old daughter on a hunting trip, you're going to tell me she can't carry a gun? This needs more specifications, perhaps permission from property owner, by special permit, with parental supervision, something that isn't so blocky.

Article 3, Section 3: Define "explosives" separately, the way you have done "firearms". It's too cluttered in there. Most of the laws of the US I've looked at have separate sections called "Definitions".

Also lacking is consistency, "gun" is used instead of "firearm" in several places, when you haven't defined "gun"!

 

[downtown]

Using this definition, kids cant have slingshots or paintball guns. I think thats silly.

 

[Splime]

Nice, Smidgey the "libertarian" bans paintball guns from minors...

If a minor is allowed to drive, then they should be allowed to use firearms w/ parental permission.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

So if I understand this correctly, it is necessary first to obtain a permit in order to possess a firearm legally?

 

[Japanrocks12]

I don't see any major issue with this bill, except that you're not specifying the proper procedure for obtaining one (what forms will be required, etc.) vote yes, pending more information

 

[CCA]

It should be revised completely.

Firearms should be handed out to create a people's militia and a people's police forece

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I don't see any major issue with this bill, except that you're not specifying the proper procedure for obtaining one (what forms will be required, etc.) vote yes, pending more information

My question exactly. Are we talking about establishing another encumbering bureaucracy just to allow people to purchase a firearm, or are we talking about banning the sale of weapons to ex-cons, mentally unstable citizens, etc.?