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Civilization 5 Rants Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ori, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    Brazil's achievements speak for themselves. The most powerful country in Latin America, a multicultural society like the US, and the 7th largest economy in the world and still rising. Pretty much the only reason Brazil hasn't received as much attention until now is that it has been overshadowed by the US (which, incidentally, is also a young country just like Brazil). If you don't think any of these are important then yes, that is pretty narrow-minded.

    All in all I prefer the BNW forum, as people there are far more progressive in their ideas of civilization.

    Heh. "Pedro's Party People" is a light-hearted joke that, incidentally, may have arisen from a post here on Civfanatics. I believe it stemmed from a phrase someone said after learning of Brazil's UA. Just goes to show that Firaxis does read Civfanatics.

    Anyway, the many Brazilians here in Civfanatics don't seem to be offended by it. If they're not offended, I won't be either.
     
  2. ellgieff

    ellgieff Chieftain

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    No, I didn't make that comparison.

    If we ever get to Alpha Centauri, I sincerely hope the ideas of Nationalism and Patriotism have gone by then, and we go there as a race.
     
  3. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    You deserve a round of applause for this.
     
  4. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    A very narrow minded and simplistic statement.
    While Greek mythology was adopted, as well as many Greek traditions, the society, system of government and ideology were completely different.
    And Rome had many developed ideas of its own - they greatly advanced medicine, warfare and architecture for instance.
     
  5. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    Oh and the pedros party people came up [at RB] because of Ichabod complaining about how Brazil was being treated:
    I'm sure its all meant in good spirit, but I guess I don't like the attitude they're presenting the civs in. I suppose I'm just glad mine will never be included...
     
  6. The Low King

    The Low King Chieftain

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    Lots of the achievements are puns, some are just as insulting to other civs.
     
  7. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    By saying that the German's A-4 (V-2) made it into space before the US in the context of the Apollo Program most definitely draws a direct comparision (at the very least by implication).

    The V-2 never even acheived earth orbit, much less a trip to the moon and back. What the Germans did with the V-2 was a great acheivement, but it most definitely was not a space program, beyond the fact that the V-2 was based on rocket technology.

    You are the one that brought up the German A-4 (V-2) in the context of the Apollo Program. What comparison were readers supposed to make, if not the one I pointed out? What exactly was your point in bringing up the A-4 in this context?

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  8. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    The most powerful country in LA does not make it a civilization, sorry... your benchmark is too low. As for being the 7th economy, well, some things come with size, but where is the contribution to human advancement??? Multicultural??? I happened to live in their neighbourhood for 37 years, my friend, and believe me, there is nothing multicultural in their society, at least not as the concept is understood in the US and Canada, for example.

    I'm sorry, but I somehow feel a huge Eduardo Galeano's influence in your "line of thinking"... I don't see any contribution to the advancement of humankind coming from Brazil, and that is one core component of MY understanding of what makes a society a civilization worthy of history book pages.

    Perhaps the narrow mind is somewhere else...?
     
  9. The Low King

    The Low King Chieftain

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    So by your definition Siam, Songhai, Korea, The Celts, Ethiopia and all the native American civs should not be included? None really had a great effect on the world.

    Or how about the USA and Russia? Because their biggest contribution to the human race was the Cold War.....
     
  10. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    I presume you meant this positively, but I hope you see how this is a negative thing.
     
  11. ellgieff

    ellgieff Chieftain

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    What you read into what I write is not my problem.

    My point was that the Germans were the first people to get a Vehicle into space. We're all clear that the Russians were the first to achieve orbit, the first to put a live being into space and the first to put a Human into space.

    In that context, the fact that the Americans were the first people to get Vehicles, and subsequently Humans, to the Moon (and back) shows an incremental improvement on others work.

    Which I explicitly said, immediately after.

    You know, I started out mostly joking. I'm slowly being convinced that I was correct.
     
  12. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    In terms of civilisation the US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland are the same single civilisation. Despite all their differences they are substantially the same. For convenience sake we can call it the Anglo-Saxon civ (though innacurate and too narrowing in it's suggested influences)

    And France is a component nation of a slightly different civilisation, what could be called European Latin (I'd consider Latin American a different civilisation, as it has divereged from its roots far farther than the children of Brittania).

    Civilisations and nations are not analogous, civilisations often spanning many nations, and often a single nation containing many civilisations (e.g Russia with all its diversities).
     
  13. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Personally I'm more offended that Firaxis/2K are marketing their laziness as a bunch of researchers. If they're too lazy to properly research a playable faction, where else are they going to cut serious corners?

    Actually the base game answered that question already when I think of it. There is no aspect of Civ 5 where the developers failed to take the lazy way out, from hiring a bunch of yes men as testers, through to not figuring out that 1UPT breaks the game all the way to allowing the game to be the guinea-pig for a new and untested software on the Windows platform (no other game was released at that time with only compatibility with DX11 a newly released programme).
     
  14. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    And yet somehow the US deserves to be a civ simply because...of what again? Because they are the most powerful country in the world at the moment? :rolleyes:

    Brazil seems fairly multicultural to me; not without its share of problems, but then even the US and Canada have issues in that department.

    Others have already pointed out the failings of several other "civs" that you have no problem with including. Also note Brian Shanahan's post where he says that the US and the UK should be considered as only one civilization. In fact one could say that every Western country could just be considered as one civilization. :lol:

    If you fail to see ANY contribution that Brazil has made to "the advancement of humankind" (hooray for vague terminology!), then I'm afraid that that's your problem, not mine, "my friend."

    I didn't even know about Eduardo Galeano until you mentioned him. But having done some research, he seems to be a pretty swell guy. You seem to have compared me to him in a pejorative manner, however, which, sorry to say, says more about you than it does about myself. I think the narrow mind is not somewhere else at all. :)

    Anyway, this discussion is growing more and more tangential to the point of this rants thread. So I think I'll stop here, before the mods step in.
     
  15. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858 Prince

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    Like, "Poland Can Into Space?". It's an insult, plain and simple (though true, because Poland cannot into space).
     
  16. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Now seems pretty late to be getting offended at the achievements. Were you not angry at the ridiculous image of Fabulous Ghandi in the Bollywood achievement? The reference to the rather disgusting rumor about Catherine the Great's death in the My Little Pony achievement? I could go on, but the point is that the achievement list has never been a place for serious information about the civs in the game and it seems odd to expect it to start here.
     
  17. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    So earth launch, earth orbit, earth/moon orbit, moon orbit, landing on the moon, moon launch, moon orbit again, moon/earth orbit, earth orbit again, landing safely on the earth again is an incremental improvement over simply an earth launch, orbit and landing. Remember that it was only 12 years, since the Russians' unmanned orbital flight in 1957 until the USA put two men on the moon and safely brought them back in 1969. And it was done several times more in the early 1970's. Please justify your characterization of this as an incremental improvement. The Apollo Program made many technolgical improvements that industries ranging from life sciences chemistry and metalurgy greatly benefited from. Keeping a man healthy on a trip to the moon and back is a lot harder than keeping a man healthy in earth orbit for a few hours and bringing him safely back to earth.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  18. ellgieff

    ellgieff Chieftain

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    I don't have to justify it. You've pointed out the increments - you just want to lump them in a single piece.

    I didn't mean to step on your Nationalism, bro. I hope that works out for you.

    *edit* A little help for you: the weak point in my argument is the suggestion that the work the USA did in spaceflight depended on the work the USSR did. This isn't accurate. The reality here is that you're asking me to defend a mostly joking suggestion that I made to demonstrate the inherent ridiculousness of discussing the "worthiness" of a "civilisation" to have a name related to it (that country is _not_ America) appear in a strategy game.

    I don't have any problem with the USA being represented in this game. I'd have preferred it if the largest contribution of that nation-state to the world was what its appearance in the game hinged on (Marketing), but that's a small niggle and not something I really care about.
     
  19. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I'm not the least bit concerned about you "stepping on my nationalism". The fact remains that anything too big for a corporation to do will be done by a nation-state. Or perhaps a group of nation-states with the same vision and equal ambition for the acheivement of the goal whether it is eliminating world hunger or traveling to the nearest star system. It will never be done by The United Nations which remains the most ineffective "world" government ever.

    Ok, I now understand your definition of incremental improvement. So an ICBM could be considered an incremental improvement over WWII era artillery.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  20. ellgieff

    ellgieff Chieftain

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    Artillery is quite different to a rocket powered projectile. So that would be a _no_, not in my opinion. The ICBM is, however, an incremental improvement on the A4.

    Your initial fact is not a fact, it's an opinion based on a specific understanding of the world, and is entirely irrelevant to the point at hand. I didn't say "Nation-States achieve nothing". I didn't suggest the United Nations would do it.

    I did say that I hope, if we ever get there (unlikely given our current understanding of the physical universe - but our understanding is growing and things may change) that it's after the concepts of Nationalism and Patriotism have died, and that we go as a race.

    *shrugs* I still can't do anything about what you read into what I write, and I literally don't care to.
     

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