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Civilization 6

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Windsor, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    I too was surprised by the hate shown hex. I played many wargames prior to civ so always thought that hex would work better. But yes, personal preference.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Having not played Civ 5 I can't say for certain, but I honestly don't see how hexes would be a bad thing (or an earth shakingly good thing either). The 1upt certainly sounds like it was implemented poorly, if not just a terrible idea to begin with.
     
  3. jackelgull

    jackelgull An aberration of nature

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    As a person who owns Civ5 (well my brother does, I just play it sometimes.) I feel that the UPT thing wasn't necessarily a bad idea. It made the game more tactical, but wars being about positioning rather than brute strength, not a wholly terrible proposition. But the problem is that the AI seriously has no idea how to respond to ranged units. Or at least the barbarians don't. They just stand their while I snipe at them and load my chariot archers up with a bunch of experience.

    To me, more problematic is national happiness and other things that limit city spam, the only thing I'm really any good at.
     
  4. lietkynes

    lietkynes Hello sword !

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    There are many issues with 1UPT but the main problem is that the AI is not able to handle it and it gets completely slaughtered in combat.
     
  5. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    AI can't handle stack warfare, either. AI in general needs improvement before Civ warfare is challenging. 1UPT is a matter of taste IMO. If you like tactical planning better than strategic then you tend to like 1UPT more. I personally would like to see a mix of both with a layered combat system. But the AI being bad at combat has little to do with 1UPT.
     
  6. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Layered combat system with a mix of both is Total War, which provides the opportunity for the AI to function poorly at the strategic and tactical levels.
     
  7. Tatran

    Tatran Chieftain

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    A civ's or leader's uniquenesses should be available right at the start or very early in the game and not depend on the rigth conditions.
    In civ4 there are several UUs and UBs which simply come too late. Russian research institute, American mall, German panzer, etc.
    In civ5, it's really worse.
    Most UUs never see a fight, because of the extreme warmonger penalty.
    The UAs forces the player to follow a certain path or it's totally useless (Austia, Venice, Mongols).
    Other uniquenesses, like a tile improvement should not depend on map and terrain type.
    (No mountains near hills -> Incan terrace is useless, no marsh or floodplains -> no Dutch polder)


    Civ has always been about 1 city tile + 2 or 3 rings around it.
    What if the city center tile will be, let's say, 7 hexes with 2 or 3 rings around it,
    so there will be tiles in the city and outside the city?
     
  8. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Good point. What I should say is that I would like to see layered combat system once they work out the massive problems with AI stupidity! :D
     
  9. cseanny

    cseanny Chieftain

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    I'm skeptical but hopeful. For my tastes, every single expansion and new edition has been absolutely horrible since CIV IV, Bts.
     
  10. Lennier

    Lennier Chieftain

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    Some of the late-UUness in Civ IV is due to a desire to have them spread throughout the timeline--and let there be some interest in advanced starts.


    There are 21 tiles in a square-tile BFC (center+8 in 1st ring + 12 in second ring). There are 19 tiles in a hex-tile BFH (center + 6 in 1st ring + 12 in second ring). Not a big deal.

    A layered approach to combat would mean switching to a tactical screen to do the actual combat. Doable, but a PITA for some (especially multiplayer games.) It was done in MOO II.
     
  11. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Chieftain

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    Well.. 1 upt is not that good when you have a lot of units. Having a lot of units will not let you have all your units go at war all at once especially the melee units. Ranged units could suffer less from 1upt because you can have more ranged units in 1upt attack than melee units since melee units cant attack from far. Larger ranged units can be most likely to attack with larger armies in 1 upt. Stacks don't have this problem and can make a lot of units.
     
  12. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett Chieftain

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    HAHAHA! Oh man, I really thought my satirical illustrations were over the top when I made them back in 2010...

    As we all know, Activision stole my idea for the Giant Mutant Missile Mech Squid:



    Then I tried to give the Marine unit a more ...um... "modern" look ;):



    And what do you know...! Well it's not a marine unit, but fan service is always fan service. :)

     
  13. Funky

    Funky Chieftain

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    Personal preference may play a role. Yet I would argue that hexes are ultimately not suitable for Civ. For a tactical game, give me hexes all the way. But the Civ map is not a battlefield, it's a friggin' planet! And planets have never been structured by hexes. Quite the contrary, our main point of reference are the four/eight cardinal points, which presuppose squares.

    One reason I could not get immersed in Civ5 (admittedly a rather minor one compared to the vast numbers of glaring flaws in the game) is that I didn't feel like I was exploring a world, but was strolling across a battlefield.


    I disagree. While the Civ4 AI is far from perfect, it is vastly better that of Civ5. Or let's say, the AI itself may not be better, but the system is apparently much easier for it to compute, so it can actually pose serious threats. In Civ5 on the other hand, it is basically impossible to lose a war if you have just the slightest clue what you are doing.
     
  14. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    I see what you're saying. But I rarely see the AI as a serious threat in Civ4 if ever. But the 1upt would be harder for an AI to handle. Still the AI warring needs to be overhauled in general especially if a tiered combat system were added like I suggested above.
     
  15. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    In my experience, in civ IV, its not so much the AI's abillity to warring, as the AI's willingness to warring. Increase the later, and you have a lethal predator.
     
  16. civfanchambers

    civfanchambers Chieftain

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    Having UU/UB for every Civ at or near the beginning of the game is problematic. For civs that existed in the ancient era it is easy to assimilate some ancient unit or building for that Civ. But for relatively modern civs how would you go about giving them an ancient UU/UB? Take the U.S.A. as an example, the marine is the UU. Considering that America exist in a modern time frame how would you give America an ancient starting unit. Rl civs in the ancient era have ancient UU. Civs on the classical era have classic UU. Renaissance era civs have renaissance UU. Industrial era have appropriate era UU, and the same for modern era. The way civ applies UU/UB to each civ is in accordance with their RL time frame.
     
  17. Tatran

    Tatran Chieftain

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    I understand to have a UU + UB for a civ in the right era, but, after playing civ5 BNW for a month now,
    I've noticed I only like to play as the Aztecs, Shoshone and less the Celts.
    Egypt can be good too, but the civ5 AIs are heavily focused on wonder building.
    All the other civ UAbilities, UBuildings, UImprovements or UUnits are average to bad.

    Almost all civ4 leaders with a late UB + UU have great trait combos, so there's some compensation.
    In civ5 when Austria or Venice annex/puppet a city-state, it's gone.
    You can't revive/liberate them and that's bad when you're playing Greece or Siam.
    You could destroy civs which are a danger to your UA, but that means that
    every other civ will hate you and trade deals will be impossible to make, unlike in civ4.

    I do remember the lead civ5 designer saying : "Civ5 is about making interesting decisions."
    The problem is, 9 out 10 times your opening decisions are the same.
    Playing with raging barbarians + the Honor opener policy means culture points when killing them.
    Pottery is almost always the first tech to start with.
    And Monarchy in the Tradition policy tree is a must have to get 50% more gold income and reduce unhappiness in your capital with 50%.
    The 'sacred path 'pantheon is by far the best pantheon, it gives +1 culture from jungle tiles and cities won't generate that amount culture through the whole game.
    Some stuff is too good while others are weak to useless (buying landsknechts in the commerce policy tree).
     
  18. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    My ideal version of Civ6 would be 40% Civ4, 25% Civ5, 10% Civ1-3 and 25% new stuff.

    While Civ5 on the whole is inferior to its predecessor, I found that to my surprise the cultural and religion mechanics are actually better. Making civics/social policies dependent culture instead of technology was simply brilliant, as is making culture expand from tile to tile or hex as it were instead of ring wise. That way culture is actually important in other situations than border cities or the very beginning of a new city. Also 5's religion system sure beats 4's Hindu-Buddhist blocs for all eternity. Oh if only they hadn't shoved in 1UPT with no regard to how it fits in, 5 might actually be slightly superior to its predecessor. :(
     
  19. Ambidexter

    Ambidexter Edjumacated Idjit

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    Instead of Civ VI I'd like to see an updated SMAC. My chances are as good as Mal's request: "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket."
     
  20. Funky

    Funky Chieftain

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    My ideal version would be 0% Civ5 for sure. Seriously, I find literally every single mechanic of Civ5 worse than Civ4. A very small number of them may actually be decent ideas, but then they were terribly implemented (like natural wonders or naturally growing borders). The rest are downright awful decisions that I never want to see in a civ game again. Of course I know that my wish won't come to pass...
     

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