Civilization Appropriate General and Admiral names

[LeeS]

Are there any plans to extend this mod to link all great people to their respective civs as well? Such as getting Leo Tolstoy for a great writer as Russia and Frederic Remington for a great writer as America?

No, because:

1. When I created the mod I literally spent a couple of months doing nothing else as far as modding goes besides chasing historical names and verifying that they were at least (a) historical, and (b) not outragiously inappropriate as a name for a general or admiral.
2. Firaxis
   • short of dll-modding (which is beyond me) it is impossible to intercept the name of the great person that will be selected by the game.
   • For Great Artists, Great Writers, Great Musicians, Firaxis grabs the "artwork" name that goes with the great-person name, and stickie-gummies the two together when the great person is created.
   • None of the previous is exposed or 'catchable' by any method short of dll
   • There is no method short of using a dll mod to assign a specific Great Work to a Specific Great Person after a Great Person has been created.
   • Even if you attempt to re-name the Great Person to a name appropriate to a particular civilization, all that is accomplished is a cosmetic change to the Great Person's name as the player would see it -- the correct Great Work for Frederic Remington does not follow along from such re-naming. You get a great artist named Frederic Sackrider Remington if you want (for America), but not his artwork A Dash for the Timber. You get the original artwork that was assigned when the game originally created Great Artist X with Great Work of Art X

• If you are confused as to why this mod can succeed, it is because the mod waits until after a Great General or Great Admiral is created, and then just applies a new name to them. It is enirely cosmetic and has no actual impact on gameplay as would swapping which great work would become available to a player.

 

[LeeS]

Released a new version V8 to fix some compatibility issues between this mod and

• Great Heroes mod
• Really Advanced Set-Up Mod

 

[DJSHenninger]

A lot of more names:

Great Generals:

Serbia (Peter I)

Pavle Jurasic Sturm: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_PAVLE_JURISIC_STURM
Uzun-Mirko: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_UZUN_MIRKO
Colak-Anta: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_COLAK_ANTA
Stojan-Cupic: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STOJAN_CUPIC
Radomir Putnik: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_RADOMIR_PUTNIK
Stepa Stepanovic: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STEPA_STEPANOVIC
Stevan Knicanin: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STEVAN_KNICANIN

Byzantium (Justinian I):

Update: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_BELISARIUS
Update: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CALONYMUS_OF_ALEXANDRIA
Hermogenes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_HERMOGENES
Sittas: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_SITTAS
Al-Harith ibn Jabalah: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_AL_HARITH_IBN_JABALAH
Narses: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NARSES
Bessas: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_BESSAS
Solomon: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_SOLOMON
John Troglita: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_TROGLITA
Mundus: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_MUNDUS

Byzantium (Basil II):

Nikephoros Ouranos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_OURANOS
Nikephoros Xiphias: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_XIPHIAS
Theodorokanos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_THEODOROKANOS
Constantine Diogenes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_CONSTANTINE_DIOGENES
Theophylact Botaneiates: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_THEOPHYLACT_BOTANEIATES
Eustathios Daphnomeles: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_EUSTATHIOS_DAPHNOMELES
Nicetas Pegonites: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NICETAS_PEGONITES

Byzantium (John II):

John Axouch: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_AXOUCH

Byzantium (Michael VIII):

Nikephoros Tarchaneiotes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_TARCHANEIOTES
Alexios Strategopoulos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_ALEXIOS_STRATEGOPOULOS
John Palaiologos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_PALAIOLOGOS

And last, but not least, I've changed the civ name of The Cometopuli to Bulgaria (Samuel), so if that could be referenced here correctly as well, I would appreciate it I'd put them in a table for you, but I'm bad at that kind of stuff, it's not working..

 

[LeeS]

I'll update the list sometime this weekend.

 

[LeeS]

A lot of more names:

Great Generals:

Serbia (Peter I)

Pavle Jurasic Sturm: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_PAVLE_JURISIC_STURM
Uzun-Mirko: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_UZUN_MIRKO
Colak-Anta: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_COLAK_ANTA
Stojan-Cupic: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STOJAN_CUPIC
Radomir Putnik: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_RADOMIR_PUTNIK
Stepa Stepanovic: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STEPA_STEPANOVIC
Stevan Knicanin: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_STEVAN_KNICANIN

Byzantium (Justinian I):

Update: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_BELISARIUS
Update: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CALONYMUS_OF_ALEXANDRIA
Hermogenes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_HERMOGENES
Sittas: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_SITTAS
Al-Harith ibn Jabalah: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_AL_HARITH_IBN_JABALAH
Narses: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NARSES
Bessas: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_BESSAS
Solomon: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_SOLOMON
John Troglita: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_TROGLITA
Mundus: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_MUNDUS

Byzantium (Basil II):

Nikephoros Ouranos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_OURANOS
Nikephoros Xiphias: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_XIPHIAS
Theodorokanos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_THEODOROKANOS
Constantine Diogenes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_CONSTANTINE_DIOGENES
Theophylact Botaneiates: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_THEOPHYLACT_BOTANEIATES
Eustathios Daphnomeles: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_EUSTATHIOS_DAPHNOMELES
Nicetas Pegonites: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NICETAS_PEGONITES

Byzantium (John II):

John Axouch: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_AXOUCH

Byzantium (Michael VIII):

Nikephoros Tarchaneiotes: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_NIKEPHOROS_TARCHANEIOTES
Alexios Strategopoulos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_ALEXIOS_STRATEGOPOULOS
John Palaiologos: TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_DJSH_JOHN_PALAIOLOGOS

And last, but not least, I've changed the civ name of The Cometopuli to Bulgaria (Samuel), so if that could be referenced here correctly as well, I would appreciate it I'd put them in a table for you, but I'm bad at that kind of stuff, it's not working..

I updated the lists, but you didn't give me info on whether they were Generals or Admirals so except for the two redirects I listed them all as generals.

 

[L.Pepperbottom]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I can't seem to get this mod to work with ExCE (used to work fine after deleting the great general & admiral names from that mod's units folder).

It says that your mod references ExCE but when I load the two that mod seems to override yours and use the default general names..

What am I doing wrong here?

 

[DistantRainbow]

Just saw this thread for the first time, and as a Korean I'm very disappointed in the names chosen in the Korean list. Apparently some people think it's funny to sneak stupid vulgarities into the list of names just because fact-checking is more difficult.

'Wang Jha-Ji' is the equivalent of 'Supercock' in English. This term has no place in a mod for a Civ game, ever. In fact I'm appalled somebody suggested this term, and that it was actually accepted as a name here.

That is the most serious offender currently on the list. Now as for some of the other names, they would be inappropriate to be used as names for Great Generals/Admirals.

Great Generals:
- Syngman Rhee was not a military leader, he was a politician, thoroughly. While he may fit as a Great Diplomat name in the CSD mod, he was never a soldier and shouldn't be here.
- 'Taejo' in Taejo Wang Geon is not a name, it's his title as the first king of his dynasty. That first word should be removed.
- There has been no 'Park Jin' as a notable military leader in Korea's history. Actually, the only Park Jin known to Koreans would be a not-so-famous present-day politician. This needs to be removed.

Great Admirals:
- Eo Jae-Yeon and Yi Bok-Nam more fit as Great Generals than Admirals, seeing as they did not actually command naval forces
- Yu Jagwang has no place in this list. Him being here would be the equivalent of naming Titus Oates as a Great Admiral for England. It's that bad of a choice.

That much, I guess. I can recommend a few replacements for the Korean name list if this mod is still being updated(not to mention that some of the names are very minor footnotes in history; many generals in Korea's history deserve being on that list way more than what is currently on there), though from the long streak of time passed without posts, I guess it isn't.

 

[LeeS]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I can't seem to get this mod to work with ExCE (used to work fine after deleting the great general & admiral names from that mod's units folder).

It says that your mod references ExCE but when I load the two that mod seems to override yours and use the default general names..

What am I doing wrong here?

I'll look into the issue this weekend. I could have sworn previous versions of ExCE worked correctly.

Just saw this thread for the first time, and as a Korean I'm very disappointed in the names chosen in the Korean list. Apparently some people think it's funny to sneak stupid vulgarities into the list of names just because fact-checking is more difficult.

'Wang Jha-Ji' is the equivalent of 'Supercock' in English. This term has no place in a mod for a Civ game, ever. In fact I'm appalled somebody suggested this term, and that it was actually accepted as a name here.

That is the most serious offender currently on the list. Now as for some of the other names, they would be inappropriate to be used as names for Great Generals/Admirals.

Great Generals:
- Syngman Rhee was not a military leader, he was a politician, thoroughly. While he may fit as a Great Diplomat name in the CSD mod, he was never a soldier and shouldn't be here.
- 'Taejo' in Taejo Wang Geon is not a name, it's his title as the first king of his dynasty. That first word should be removed.
- There has been no 'Park Jin' as a notable military leader in Korea's history. Actually, the only Park Jin known to Koreans would be a not-so-famous present-day politician. This needs to be removed.

Great Admirals:
- Eo Jae-Yeon and Yi Bok-Nam more fit as Great Generals than Admirals, seeing as they did not actually command naval forces
- Yu Jagwang has no place in this list. Him being here would be the equivalent of naming Titus Oates as a Great Admiral for England. It's that bad of a choice.

That much, I guess. I can recommend a few replacements for the Korean name list if this mod is still being updated(not to mention that some of the names are very minor footnotes in history; many generals in Korea's history deserve being on that list way more than what is currently on there), though from the long streak of time passed without posts, I guess it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jha-ji

Spoiler :

If the wiki page is nonsense (and it very often can be because of the "vote on article accuracy" system of wikipedia) then you should take that up with the wikipedia folks.

Recommendations are fine. At one point after spending all my free time over a period of two months digging into Historical names and not finding much of anything for many civs, I probably did make a few mistakes here and there, or trust suggestions without bothering to double-check. Before you berate, consider:

• How much time I put into gathering these names
• How mentally exhausting the tedium of such an endeavor can be, only to be rewarded by everyone and their cousin's third uncle quibbling over some of the choices that were made.
• How, especially in Asian Cultures and on the Indian Subcontinent, finding historical persons who were admirals only and never generals is a non-fun task for someone not intimately familair with the history and the historical cultures and peoples of such regions.

 

[balparmak]

Well if there is any more work to be done on this I can compile names for Ottomans and maybe other M.Eastern Islamic ones. Just one thing I noticed though is "Mustafa Kemal Atatürk": it is better if he is named "Mustafa Kemal" only, as that was his name when he was an officer of the empire, whereas "Atatürk" surname was bestowed upon him by the Turkish parliament.

 

[LeeS]

Well if there is any more work to be done on this I can compile names for Ottomans and maybe other M.Eastern Islamic ones. Just one thing I noticed though is "Mustafa Kemal Atatürk": it is better if he is named "Mustafa Kemal" only, as that was his name when he was an officer of the empire, whereas "Atatürk" surname was bestowed upon him by the Turkish parliament.

I'll accept any suggestions for better names or more accurate info. I think it was not clear to me as I recall whether Atatürk was an actual surname or more like a title as "Caesar" very quickly became in Imperial Rome.

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I just don't want to be "yelled at" for the names I was able to find related to someone's native homeland or people. In many cases after multiple search attempts from multiple different googling angles all I found for Civ-X were historically shadowy figures or mostly apocryphal names of mythic or semi-mythic individuals.

And some names that were suggested and presented as legit apparently are not -- please just mention such if you spot them and in a future update I will remove them.

But one rule I adopted for civs where Admirals were hard to come by is that if someone served in both a Land and Naval capacity, I will tend to use them as an Admiral for the civ rather than as a General because legit Admiral names are much harder to find.

 

[balparmak]

Sure, I know from the state of various wikis online how finding appropriate historical info can be tasking, totally with you on that.

A question though, I see that some rulers(sultans) are added to the list. It seems a bit odd to me that Sultan Suleyman has some other sultan as a general in his army, but the whole concept of Civ leaders is very odd anyway, so I have no issues with that. If this was done to populate the list, I guess they can be omitted as the new list will probably have enough names. I will post a basic list once I gather around 20 generals and 10 admirals.

 

[LeeS]

Sure, I know from the state of various wikis online how finding appropriate historical info can be tasking, totally with you on that.
I won't have much time before June to get into a detailed research for other civs, still being a native I can easily come up with some ten generals and a few admirals, but before that I've got few questions regarding design, they might also be helpful for other contributors:
Is fame or/and rank important when considering "Greatness"? Ex: A particular pasha, Enver, was the member of triumvirate that led the country into WWI and he was also a general indeed, yet his campaign ended in disaster when he tried to pass Caucasus in winter and some 90 thousand badly-equipped soldiers perished on the mountains, so not a military genius. He is quite well-known though, and I can think of similar names that held high ranks, were internationally known but not that "great", should I include them?
Also, I see that some rulers(sultans) are added to the list. It seems a bit odd to me that Sultan Suleyman has some other sultan as a general in his army, but the whole concept of Civ leaders is very odd anyway, so I have no issues with that. If this was done to populate the list, I guess they can be omitted as the new list will probably have enough names.
Finally, names in the Ottoman army can sometimes be dull as it is always "Something" Pasha. While earlier pashas of aristocratic descend had some prefix, this can be an issue towards the end as there are numerous late-empire&early-republic Great Generals and with removal of surnames the list would be like Mustafa Kemal Pasha, Kazım Pasha, Ali Fuat Pasha, Ismet Pasha etc. That may add a level of immersion&flavor though. On the other hand, if you'd like to emphasize the break between old pashas of the empire and the modern generals of the republic surnames could remain. Ehm things tend to get messy like that when you create a republic overthrowing an empire, but still building upon its remains.
I will post a basic list once I gather around 20 generals and 10 admirals.

All of that would be fine. I do remember running into that. Pasha Pasha This and Pasha Pasha That

I seem to remember that "Chinese" Gordon was referred to as Gordon Pasha in some parts.

The rule I adopted so far as "Greatness" went was that whenever possible not to use a name where the historical data showed they weren't very successful in direct military leadership. There are some cases scattered throughout the list of Generals and Admirals where the individual never actually led troops or ships into battle but was nonetheless instrumental in creating an effective army or navy for their native or adopted country. And as I recall there are one or two names where the individual was a famed and successful general but was also instrumental in creating a navy for his/her homeland -- in this case they are used as Admirals because Admiral names are more difficult to find.

There are also a few infamous pirates used as Admirals, but I think the only ones who were never anything but pirates that I used were for a few Europeans as I was not too sure how much people from other parts of the globe would feel about using names of persons who were never anything but infamous pirates native to their homeland.

As a general rule I also tended to use a person who was born in one country but served famously in another as a general or admiral for the nation of their birth. There are exceptions to this even so when the historical record of the person in question is far more tied to the land they served than the one where they were born.

I also tended to try to weight a civ's names more toward the historical period of the leader, but I did not exclude valid and famous persons simply because they did not conform to the historical era of the civ's leader, nor did I marry myself to this sort of a weighting of names.

If you look at England, you will see that the names span pretty much the entire history of the UK. The Admirals list for England in particular is pretty hefty toward the Napoleonic Campaigns -- this is because England's Naval Fame is far more rooted in the success of Gambier, Hood, and Nelson than it is in Drake and the like.

 

[DistantRainbow]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jha-ji

Spoiler :

If the wiki page is nonsense (and it very often can be because of the "vote on article accuracy" system of wikipedia) then you should take that up with the wikipedia folks.

Recommendations are fine. At one point after spending all my free time over a period of two months digging into Historical names and not finding much of anything for many civs, I probably did make a few mistakes here and there, or trust suggestions without bothering to double-check. Before you berate, consider:

• How much time I put into gathering these names
• How mentally exhausting the tedium of such an endeavor can be, only to be rewarded by everyone and their cousin's third uncle quibbling over some of the choices that were made.
• How, especially in Asian Cultures and on the Indian Subcontinent, finding historical persons who were admirals only and never generals is a non-fun task for someone not intimately familair with the history and the historical cultures and peoples of such regions.

First of all, 'berating' or 'yelling at you' wasn't really my intention with that post. If I sounded inflammatory and abrasive up there by using strong language, I apologize. I never intended to undermine the work and effort you put into this mod.

I was just... let's say agitated, by the presence of WJJ(I'm sorry, but I really cannot write that name in full here. It seriously offends me)'s name in the list.

Which brings me to the topic on WJJ himself. I looked up the Wikipedia article, then I did some cross-referencing around. The name itself turns out to be legit; this person actually did exist in history. So I guess I owe you another apology in that regard. However, that does not change the fact that this name does literally mean 'enormous male genitalia' in vulgar Korean.

Another point I have to make is his historical significance(or to be frank, lack of it) in Korean history. WJJ is a literal unknown in Korean military history. His name is never mentioned even in college level, and is only found in the most encyclopedic references as a footnote. Even considering the Jurchen campaign where he is supposed to have had a military career, I can think of no less than three people who showed more prominence as military leaders during that time, and that's not counting General Yun Gwan(who is linked to WJJ's wiki page), the person who revolutionized Korea's military at the time and masterminded the entire campaign to add a significant amount of land to Korea's territories. Not to undermine what WJJ did, but his inclusion is... the equivalent would be trying to select just one or two names in particular to represent the whole American side in the Battle of the Little Bighorn, and settling on someone like Thomas Weir or James Calhoun. Might be a bad comparison, but you get the point.

I can guarantee that less than 1 in 50 Koreans will see WJJ and think of this obscure politician/military officer. The rest will automatically think of the vulgarity, as I did first. And believe it's bad enough to make people with knowledge of Korean to immediately doubt the veracity of the whole mod and dismiss the whole thing to be a joke.

So, I request changing that name to Yun Gwan. He, at least, is a household name and is mentioned in even the most basic Korean history books, considering his campaign was a proud moment for 12th century Korean military history.

Now, with that one issue out of the way, since you posted that you were open for recommendations I started compiling a list of Korean names that would be suitable here. The end part of that 'abrasive' first post was mainly concerned in names that were 'wrong'. There is still the question of obscure people who would better be replaced by others with more renown, and people who are indeed famous people in history but are questionable as to their having led armies. I'll get to compiling some replacement names. I have already thought of 3 names suitable to be used as Great Admirals, which would be more appropriate than any other Korean GA name currently used in the mod bar Yi Sun-Shin.

Again, sorry if that post angered you, that wasn't my point. I just find the idea for this mod interesting, and want to see that the names in it are appropriate.

 

[isnorden]

No, because:

1. When I created the mod I literally spent a couple of months doing nothing else as far as modding goes besides chasing historical names and verifying that they were at least (a) historical, and (b) not outragiously inappropriate as a name for a general or admiral.
2. Firaxis
   • short of dll-modding (which is beyond me) it is impossible to intercept the name of the great person that will be selected by the game.
   • For Great Artists, Great Writers, Great Musicians, Firaxis grabs the "artwork" name that goes with the great-person name, and stickie-gummies the two together when the great person is created.
   • None of the previous is exposed or 'catchable' by any method short of dll
   • There is no method short of using a dll mod to assign a specific Great Work to a Specific Great Person after a Great Person has been created.
   • Even if you attempt to re-name the Great Person to a name appropriate to a particular civilization, all that is accomplished is a cosmetic change to the Great Person's name as the player would see it -- the correct Great Work for Frederic Remington does not follow along from such re-naming. You get a great artist named Frederic Sackrider Remington if you want (for America), but not his artwork A Dash for the Timber. You get the original artwork that was assigned when the game originally created Great Artist X with Great Work of Art X

• If you are confused as to why this mod can succeed, it is because the mod waits until after a Great General or Great Admiral is created, and then just applies a new name to them. It is entirely cosmetic and has no actual impact on gameplay as would swapping which great work would become available to a player.

JFD's Papal States civ includes a customized list of Great Artists/Writers/Musicians, with works to match. Maybe using his code and finding some appropriate works for each civilization could help... I'd love to see Sweden get August Strindberg with a quote from The Red Room, or Carl Milles with a photo of his "Hand of God" sculpture, or Hugo Alfvén with a sample of the Swedish Rhapsody.

 

[LeeS]

JFD's Papal States civ includes a customized list of Great Artists/Writers/Musicians, with works to match. Maybe using his code and finding some appropriate works for each civilization could help... I'd love to see Sweden get August Strindberg with a quote from The Red Room, or Carl Milles with a photo of his "Hand of God" sculpture, or Hugo Alfvén with a sample of the Swedish Rhapsody.

JFD is creating an new type of unit, the Disciple, that replaces the Artist for the Papal States, and thereby is automatically only valid for the Papal States civilization.

 

[isnorden]

Ouch, that'd be tedious to do for every civ. Still, some modders have added their own Great Person/work combinations to the game; without editing the DLL, I'd just add enough of those in and hope the game picks the right ones!

 

[DistantRainbow]

Okay, I'm back with recommendations for Korean Great General/Admiral names, as promised.

Great Generals:
- Yeon Gaesomun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeon_Gaesomun)
- Yang Man-chun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Manchun)
- Kim Yu-sin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Yu-sin)
- Dae Jo-yeong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_of_Balhae)
- Seo Hui (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seo_Hui)
- Gang Gam-chan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Gam-chan)
- Yun Gwan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yun_Gwan)
- Choe Yeong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choe_Yeong)
- Kim Jong-seo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jongseo)
- Gwak Jae-u (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwak_Jae-u)
- Im Gyeong-eop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Im_Gyeong-eop)
- Hong Beom-do (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Beom-do)
- Kim Chwa-chin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Chwa-chin)

Great Admirals:
- Isabu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Isabu)
- Jang Bo-go (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jang_Bogo)
- Bae Jung-son (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bae_Jung-son)
- Choe Mu-seon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choe_Museon)

All sorted in roughly chronological order of their moments of military prominence in history, just in case. A few notes on the names of some of these people:

- It would be better to write Dae Jo-yeong with his real name rather than his kingly title(King Go of Balhae). In fact, many Koreans know him as the founder of the kingdom of Balhae, but are more familiar with his real name than his title as king.
- It would be better to omit Isabu's surname and just call him Isabu. Even the wiki shows that there is some dispute between historical texts on whether his surname is Kim or Park, and Koreans are much more familiar with just the term Isabu, to the point that many mistakenly believe his surname was Yi due to the first syllable of that name.

Now, with recommendations out of the way I'll comment on the names that are already being used in the mod. I'll point out why some of them wouldn't fit the purpose of this mod well. Some I may have already mentioned, but I will elaborate on them as well in detail.

Current Great General names in mod:

Spoiler :

- King Dongmyeong and King Onjo are founders of their respective kingdoms, yes. That much is well known among Koreans. However, the two of them are rather legendary figures and their military exploits are frankly, somewhat mythic and exaggerated. Which makes me somewhat doubt whether they would fit here. Are somewhat mythical figures eligible to be added to this mod? Granted Firaxis made Dido the leader of Carthage so that doesn't seem to be a problem, but... Just wanted to comment on that.
- I've stated this already in a previous post, but Syngman Rhee was first a political activist for the independence of Korea, then a politician as Modern Korea's first president. He has never been a soldier, and has never commanded the army a single time in his life. Does every US President automatically qualify to be included as a Great General? I wouldn't think so, and I believe many would agree here. Neither does Rhee.
- Wang Geon is the name, Taejo is just his kingly title as the first king of Goryeo(much like the title King Go of Balhae mentioned above in my recommendations). And Taejo isn't a unique title either; Yi Song-gye, who you have listed as a Great General already, also became king by founding the Joseon dynasty, and he too took the title of Taejo for being the first king. As merely being a title that isn't even exclusive, this should be taken out and the person just called Wang Geon.
- I've talked too much about WJJ in previous posts, but I'll state it again; he has no noteworthy records as a military leader. He was just a deputy/officer to Yun Gwan, and just marched with him in said campaign. If the Jurchen campaigns of 1107-1108 really need a second representative besides its leader Yun Gwan, it should be Cheok Jun-gyeong, his second-in-command, who showed bravery and martial skills of seemingly legendary levels, and who went on to become a high-ranking general and political figure in his later years before being ousted in a power struggle. Infuriatingly, Cheok doesn't have an English Wikipedia page of his own, even though his Korean wiki page(https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/척준경) is several times the length of WJJ's, which shows his relative prominence and importance in history. In short, people like WJJ were a dime a dozen in that campaign's army; he really shouldn't be here.
- I looked further, and besides WJJ, there was also a Park Jin during the Imjin Wars between Korea and Japan. A very minor figure though. The Imjin Wars are already represented by a tad too many people by my reckoning(Kwon Yul, Shin Rip, Yi Sun-shin, Won Gyun, and Yi Eok-gi all hail from the same period and war), I have already nominated Gwak Jae-u who happens to be from the same period(and much more famous), and there are other famous figures from that era that I omitted in favor of Gwak, such as Samyeongdang(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yujeong) and Jeong Mun-bu(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeong_Mun-bu), all of which are more famous than Park Jin. What I said still holds; the only Park Jin Koreans of today would know is the mediocre politician. Park Jin has no noteworthy records either; the only records that exist show that he lost several times, reclaimed some land from the Japanese only thanks to a peasant revolt, then got beaten to death by a Ming Dynasty diplomat. I say he doesn't belong here.

Current Great Admiral names in mod:

Spoiler :

- Eo Jae-yeon isn't a naval commander. He was posted in Ganghwa Island, a large island of 300 square km which is so close to the mainland that it's as good as attached, and he faced US Marines who had already successfully completed their landing during a previous skirmish, in a land battle. Granted, it happened on the beaches of the island and it appears that there were bombardments from US ships, but that doesn't change the fact that Eo didn't personally have any ships under his command, just leading a land-based garrison. I know that Great Admiral names are short for you so people who commanded both land and naval fronts would have a tendency to be classified as GAs, but does fighting Marines on foot, on a beach while being shot at by enemy ships with absolutely no ships of your own, qualify as naval command? I doubt it. And given that Eo only led about 500 men and this one battle where he and his men was massacred is the only notable record in his entire career, I would actually say it's somewhat questionable whether he deserves a spot as a Great General, either.
- Yi Bok-nam has the same problems as Eo Jae-yeon... somewhat. The English wiki names him as a 'naval commander', but the only 'naval' part in his career would be being intermittently posted to coastal regions to try to stop Japanese army landings, without any ships. Most of his career was spent inland, trying to withstand Japanese sieges of key towns in Jeonra-do province. His title in the wiki, 'Byungmajeoldosa of Jeonra-do' exclusively means he commands the army and ONLY the army; the matching naval position at that time was held by Yi Sun-shin. On a final note, Yi Bok-nam is a relatively obscure figure during that time of war, certainly less known than Gwak Jae-u, Samyeongdang and Jeong Mun-bu, who I mentioned above. He's certainly not Great Admiral-material, and I believe you could omit him as a GG too, considering his relative obscurity.
- Won Gyun is quite infamous in Korea for his general incompetence as a military leader(it was he who led the Korean navy, revolutionized by Yi Sun-shin, to its total destruction in a single battle), and his personal feud with Yi Sun-shin, whom he was madly jealous of. Yi Eok-gi's main claim to fame was playing second fiddle to Yi Sun-shin's victories; there isn't a single major naval battle where he was the top naval commander to my knowledge. But since you do say you are short of Great Admiral names, I think these two could receive a pass. They're undisputably naval commanders, for one.
- Yu Jagwang isn't just questionable. At least WJJ, Park Jin and others had minor roles in large military campaigns. I'll grant that Yu Jagwang is a famous figure in Korean history. His claim to fame... is as an opportunist, reveling in lies and perjury, getting high-ranking officials and scholars executed for treason and taking their wealth as his own, becoming a tyrant(a good candidate for being the worst tyrant in Korea's history, even)'s close confidant with honeyed words to gain power, prestige and money(and in the process spearheading mass executions of hundreds of people just to prove his 'loyalty'), betraying said tyrant in a conspiracy plot and dragging him down to become a close retainer of the next king for more riches and power... the list goes on. And on. And on. And finally, for the info that actually matters, no, Yu Jagwang has never led a single campaign as a military leader. He has merely followed a single campaign as a low-ranking attendant in his younger days, a campaign where he spent all his time ferreting out secrets to undermine its leaders, secrets which he would use a few years later to work up a big treason plot which would see all the military leaders of said campaign dishonored and executed.
Yu Jagwang is one of the most repulsive figures Korea's long history has ever seen. When I said putting this person as a GA is the equivalent of naming Titus Oates as an English GA, I meant it. Actually, thinking about it now, that comparison might probably be a great insult and I might owe an apology. To Titus Oates. At least Oates only fabricated one plot. Yu fabricated three major plots and countless minor ones.

 

[LeeS]

I'll adjust the Korean list of GG and GA but I want to wait a bit to see if balparmak is able to make any better suggestions along the Ottoman front. I'd rather issue an update in one go rather than eleventy-seven little updates.

 

[balparmak]

Oops terribly sorry I couldn't get back earlier, I even had the list but could not get a chance to post it. Tried to include unique sounding guys as much as I could. I did not include some great&famous pashas as they had little battle experience, hence all below have played a role in some important victories. Here you go:
Generals

Spoiler :

Ghazi Evrenos Begh
Lala Sahin Pasha
Malkocoglu Bali Begh
Pargali Ibrahim Pasha
Mustafa Kemal Pasha
Ismet Pasha
Kazim Pasha
Fevzi Pasha
Kuyucu Murad Pasha
Ghazi Osman Pasha
Baltaci Mehmed Pasha
Koprulu Mehmed Pasha
Candarli Ali Pasha
Hadim Sinan Pasha
Zaganos Mehmed Pasha
Cezzar Ahmed Pasha
Tiryaki Hasan Pasha
Humbaraci Ahmed Pasha
Lala Mustafa Pasha
Telli Hasan Pasha
Veli Mahmud Pasha

Admirals: Ottoman Admirals mainly had the title "Reis", some minority (with noble descent) used Pasha. Pashas can be deleted if you want a thematic division between Generals and Admirals, or you may just delete the titles, they are not that important

Spoiler :

Kara Murad Pasha
Silahdar Yusuf Pasha
Kemal Reis
Piyale Pasha
Seydi Ali Reis
Barbaros Hayreddin or Hayreddin Barbarossa
Piri Reis
Oruç Reis
Hasan Agha
Kiliç Ali Reis
Turgut Reis
Kurdoglu Muslihittin Reis
Kurdoglu Hizir Reis
Koca Murad Reis
Müezzinzade Ali Pasha

-also noticed you already had the guy I talked about, Enver, as Ismail Enver, eheh.

 

[LeeS]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I can't seem to get this mod to work with ExCE (used to work fine after deleting the great general & admiral names from that mod's units folder).

It says that your mod references ExCE but when I load the two that mod seems to override yours and use the default general names..

What am I doing wrong here?

It's not a compatibility problem between Great General Names and JFD's ExCE, it is a compatibility problem between Great General Names and CP (now Vox Populi?), and because ExCE v16¹ needs CP it makes it look like there is a compatibility problem between Great Geneeral Names and ExCE. I hope to have all the compatibility issues with CP chased down, and the name suggestions of "Rainbow" and "balparmak" rolled into an update possibly to push out yet this weekend.

¹I'm not sure which version of ExCE JFD went to requiring CP/Vox PopMusic

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Now that I fixed the conflict with CP I am getting a direct conflict with ExCE, which means ExCE is probably renaming what "Great Generals" and/or "Great Admirals" are called in-game, so I need to figure compatibility to that. Not likely I will have the update pushed out this weekend unless the fix turns out to be something trivially easy. I have suspiscions on where I need to look and what I need to do, as I have had similar issues with other mods...just not sure if the solution will be a duplicate of the issue those other mods were creating.

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[edit edit]

It may not actually be a ExCE thing again, after all, it might be what CP is doing. In which case I would need CP to not do that.

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[edot][edit][edit]

Issue seems to be sorted, compatibility to JFD's ExCE appears to be restored.