1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civilization Balance

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by WCH, May 1, 2008.

  1. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    352
    I like how you completely ignored the fact that MP has absolutely nothing to do with this thread and the fact that a huge portion of your original arguments where based on MP. Talk about biting again.....

    Oh And ogres? I will definitely have ogres by the time you have righteousness...that is not hard at all.
     
  2. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,073
    No, bannor will kill orcs much earlier, b4 righteousness.
    Fanaticism, or even earlier. With more 35% or resereach its easy.
    And ,as i said - all things tested. Thats our opinnion, experienced, checked, rechecked. Dude, thats a empiric (based on repetetive experience) fact.
     
  3. Alzara

    Alzara Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    Florida
    And you also proceeded to tell me how boring slow speeds are and how you "just move troops". Your tone was quite condescending, as it continues to be as you tell us all that you are stating "a FACT" as you put it. I think you need to do a lot more research into all possible scenarios before you can start reeling off game "facts".

    Btw I must remind you that I don't have issues with your claims for superior balance knowledge, whether erroneous or true. I have issues with being dictated to about how I should play MY game. There is nothing factual about the way you should play a game.

    Al
     
  4. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,073
    I dont seem to be smart just from post i quoting now.
     
  5. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,370
    Location:
    Univ. Florida
    Ignored? Do you think it required commenting on? Should I have said "NO! This thread is about MP now!!" ?? :) What the hell. Someone doesn't respond to one sentance (because there is no need to), and you want to go on and on about it? I don't understand.

    Oh yea, and then you talk about MP play... but I'll "ignore" that too, as comment is not required.
    Spoiler :
    Given thread topic :p
     
  6. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,073
    The thing i prefer to play one settings not mean i didnt tryed others. For most MP people (go to BTS lobby, or play on hamachi FfH) play only Quick speeds because for oppinion of most slow MP (yeah MP) games are immposible to finish, boring slow , and most of turns useless. Its not me, go check MP BTS/ civ4 lobby.
     
  7. Alzara

    Alzara Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    Florida
    OK seriously guys isn't this going a bit far now?

    This thread is getting torn apart!

    Al
     
  8. Alzara

    Alzara Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    Florida
    Yeah fair enough. Just don't tell me that I'm playing the game wrong because there is a popular opinion that quick speed is the best. There is a popular opinion that football is fun to watch, but I don't find it so and I'm not going to watch it because lots of people like it.

    I think we should leave this before the thread is overrun by some sort of flame war.

    Al
     
  9. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    352
    I see...and the fact that clan gets wolf riders at 0:science:? Will that help you in killing the clan earlier too? Honestly it's all subjective depending on map type and the quality of each individual start. Example: If Bannor start anywhere near Clan, they don't have a prayer. So much for 'empirical'....

    Btw, would you care to field a response regarding your earlier comments about "I'm right and your wrong because in MP...." with regards to the SP nature of this thread? Theres a reason I'm stating this over and over, you should probably consider that reason when you are posting other such condescending remarks in the future...
     
  10. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,073

    mmm i just was smacktalked for somewhat page of this thread, besides that all cool, lets see rankings... sorry if my post really offended someone, it not supposed to... My post didnt offended anyone , while some others really busy with offend me, but , lol, lets see the charts!
     
  11. Slvynn

    Slvynn Duke Vector fon Pixel

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,073
    thread is called "Civilisation Balance"
    and not " Civilisation balance in SP"
    by telling that you (and WCH) yourself arrogant, because most of fun playing is MP, you cant deny MP, and talk about "Balance" of the game, and then deny valid MP feedbacks.
    take care..
     
  12. Alzara

    Alzara Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Location:
    Florida
    Well your manner is condescending. People respond badly to that. All I ever said is that you should not tell people that they are simply wrong, unless that person claims something like the earth being flat etc.

    Since then it seems as if the conversation has become a bit nick-picky and pointless. WCH's thread probably isn't going to go anywhere now because nobody wants to read through chatter like this.

    Al
     
  13. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,589
    Location:
    Location! Location!
  14. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Protip: Arguing about whether or not MP is valid to argue about makes you look even worse than saying "hurf durf regeneration is cheating", especially considering that the topic creator said in the fourth post that while he originally intended to talk about SP, it was fine to discuss MP.

    If you don't want to discuss MP strats, don't. But also refrain from going RAR YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO EVEN TALK ABOUT MP BALANCE THIS THREAD IS SP ONLY. Let the people who want to debate MP strategy, do so.

    Anyway, posts like Sylvynn's, Ecofarm's and The Wyrms demonstrate the problem with a topic like this, I guess. "Okay, here's how the civs stack up with my incredibly weird, specific game settings (Sylvynn, Ecofarm)/roleplaying tendencies (Wyrm)." How can there be a consensus on balance when there are so many variables that the people doing the rankings mess around with?
     
  15. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,589
    Location:
    Location! Location!
  16. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    15,370
    Location:
    Univ. Florida
    Hey. I play fractal "Play Now!", immortal and deity. And I role play just fine. Perp is insane, so I think he can do about anything.
     
  17. Kael

    Kael Deity

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,401
    Location:
    Ohio
    True enough. We know that its impossible to make all civs equal in all environments. We could mitigate that with a fixed map, but no one wants to give up all the cool map scripts and options out there.

    So I look at the feedback here and looks for trends more than any specific feedback. In aggregate I think the feedback is really good, but dont worry about arguing any particular posters view as we are very conservative in our changes so we dont tend to make large changes unless the evidence is overwheleming (and usually requires the teams personal experience, though we use you guys a lot to tell us where to look).

    That said I agree with most of what has been said in general, except for the statement that the clan is weak. I think they are well balanced if not a little overpowered.
     
  18. Amerigo Arturo

    Amerigo Arturo Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    105
    Amurites 8
    Balseraphs 9
    Bannor 8
    Calabim 10
    Clan of Embers 8
    Doviello 4
    Elohim 5
    Grigori 5
    Hippus 7
    Illians 4
    Infernal 6 too little too late
    Khazad 7
    Kuriotates 1
    Lanun 6
    Ljosalfar 8
    Luchuirp 9
    Malakim 5
    Mercurians 9 If you could play these from the start they would be 11
    Sheaim 9
    Sidar 4
    Svartalfar 5
     
  19. WCH

    WCH Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    491
    Yeah. The nice thing about running a poll like I'm doing is that it shows which are universally thought of as weak and which people are split over. Grigori, for instance, has some who hate it and some who love it: so, no changes needed. Kuriotates and Doviello, on the other hand, are just about universally thought of as worthless, meanwhile Luichirup and Ljosalfar both have been getting consistently high scores.

    What I really like about this game is that for a lot of the Civs, they have their own unique way in which they're incredibly powerful. Currently playing as Calabim and... damn. 6 units and counting with over 500 XP? Insanity. Guess it's just a shame that there are some for which that isn't true, but that's what patches are for, right?
     
  20. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,715
    Ok!


    1) The way you play the game is fine Alzara but your taste in clothes is abominable.

    That's just my assumption, btw.

    2) The best reason to play slow speeds is so that when playing evil civs you have more time to say "Bwhahahaha!" and threaten the good civs. This works best when playing a LAN MP game but that's not strictly necessary. You're already sitting at home staring at a computer for hours at a time. Talking to it won't make things appreciably worse.

    3) There's an easy alternative to nit-picky conversations: Tweak things yourself as and when you feel like it. Modding Civ4 is easy compared to
    a) Modding most other games. And FFH2 comes with an editor.
    b) Talking to other gamers. They're nit-picky as a rule. (And the wargamers? Woo! Did Bren guns usually use tripods or bipods? Don't ask! :eek:)

    The best way to balance FFH2 is via the cackle test: If you find yourself cackling as you wipe out a civ there's a good chance your using an imbalanced method. At least that's how it works for me. I've always assumed that's the way it is for everyone.

    4) Save all the nit-picking and major balance problems for "Ice."
    That's when things are supposed to be more or less set and, better yet, Kael may actually be thinking he's almost finished. Try hitting him with a nasty balance problem when he doesn't expect it!

    5) If you can't wait for "Ice" make suggestions to xienwolf, MagisterC or Vehem and try to generate extra work for them. This will create more things for everyone to argue about.

    If we have problems with discussion quality maybe it can be compensated for with quantity.

    And getting other people to do things is an end in itself. (What might appear to be generalized misanthropy is really just a keen and probing intellect, I assure you. (Do I need to give you my IQ?))

    Finally:
    6)
    WCH:
    As xienwolf mentions it's pretty easy: Assets/XML/Gameinfo/CIV4GameSpeedInfos.xml is the file to change and the tags are obvious. "BuildPercent", "ResearchPercent", etc.

    It depends on the map settings, etc., but I found games quickly becoming even more war/rush focused as the build times shortened. Because the advantage of a lead in military tech is magnified, I believe.
     

Share This Page