Civilization: Beyond Earth fall update is now live!

[Rayki]

My first impression is...I have none because the game no longer runs...Crashes at DOM screen, I've now done a fresh install twice and cleaned all files from my computer and got nothing.

 

[Esperr]

The game is much slooooooower now with the tr nerf. However armys are more varied now, artillary actually has a use. And making co op required for lump sums really polarizes the ewely game

 

[TheXMassTeam]

Hi all!

Does someone feel like me that diplomacy with AI become unfair with this patch?
Like AI now want "access to my territory" (can't find a better translation sorry) for every trade?

o/

 

[Lucius_]

Finished my first game. KP, standard, standard, terran, Soyuz, Purity.

The game is mildly slower now. I finished t257 with Promised Land. That's about 20-30 turns later than I was normally winning.

The AI is definitely more aggressive.

The AI can still get lucky with Contact victory. Kozlov was able to win around t265. That's not particularly early except this was only Soyuz difficulty and no other AI was close to winning. The next closest needed to build their wonder but didn't have the necessary affinity level. All other AI's were listed at 0 for victory progress.

 

[Ikael]

My thoughts on the patch:

Trade routes: Well deserved reduction and simplification, but have they perhaps overnerfed them? We'll see, this needs more hands on gameplay for me to ponder on

Units: Long, extensive revision of units. Good, good. I like that they are more balanced, but a bit tad more flavour and differenciation between different factions wouldn't hurt

Tech web: Very obvious and needed changes, I can't complain, but the work is far from being done here

Health effects: Great re-balancing. Early low health influences growth, going deep into negative gives a harsh penalty (as it should) and solid bonuses are provided for higher health levels.

AI: Yes, yes, YES! At last, long last. The AI seems far more meatier than before. Let's see if it is a noticeable improvement on the late game too

Virtues: The game needs a far more extensive social virtues balance, not to mention EARLY SOURCES OF HEALTH (ultrabolded capital letters of death added for a greater sence of urgency)

Sponsors: WTF Firaxis. Barre recieves one of the blandest bonuses ever while Klozov and Elodie gets nerfed into oblivion. At least Rejinaldo has something going for him, but Jesus, what a disaster

Wonders: Ahahahaha oh wow

 

[Gort]

Hmm, the affinity 4 units are now definitely less useful than before, but while you're at Affinity 4 and 5 they will utterly demolish anything they come across.

So I guess they're still useful for an affinity level 4 or 5 rush, and after that they're roughly equal to tier 3 infantry, and later on they become superior for a bit again.

Big improvement over, "Let's rush strength 40 Battlesuits while infantry have strength 14" which is what we had before.

 

[Roxlimn]

Um. They're at Strength 24. For the strongest unit - Battlesuits. They don't demolish anything. I've tried. I fought the AI when it used Battlesuits, too. They're mildly stronger than Marines (Strength 16). Still not enough on their own to take a city. Well, I suppose the AI could be bamboozeld into doing stupid things one way or the other, but a straight assault on a 36-40 Defense City? Nuh uh. No rush.

They're not equal to tier 3 Infantry. They're worse. In every way. Like, you're better off deleting CNDRs and Xenoswarms and use the resource for something that's actually of use. I do not call this an improvement, let alone a big one.

 

[Gort]

Um. They're at Strength 24. For the strongest unit - Battlesuits.

Compared to strength 14 marines, 24 strength is very nasty. And the weakest unit is the Xenoswarm at 22 strength, which is still very nasty comparatively, for a hefty discount in production cost (100 vs 160).

So yeah, pretty nasty.

They don't demolish anything.

Except the units with less strength when they come out, which is all of them.

I've tried. I fought the AI when it used Battlesuits, too. They're mildly stronger than Marines (Strength 16).

Strength 14. You're still not very good at this "knowing about games" thing. And 24 strength is proportionally very strong against 14 strength.

Still not enough on their own to take a city. Well, I suppose the AI could be bamboozeld into doing stupid things one way or the other, but a straight assault on a 36-40 Defense City? Nuh uh. No rush.

Why on earth would you attack a city with one unit? That's idiocy. You use the strength 24 units to kill the enemy's strength 14 units, then you use the resulting clear battlefield to capture their cities.

They're not equal to tier 3 Infantry. They're worse. In every way. Like, you're better off deleting CNDRs and Xenoswarms and use the resource for something that's actually of use.

They have equal strength and you've already spent the production, and there isn't a unit to spend Xenomass or Firaxite on until Affinity 7, so doing what you advise would also be idiocy.

I do not call this an improvement, let alone a big one.

And you're wrong.

 

[Lucius_]

I haven't used any affinity 4 units yet, but I too think it was overkill of a nerf. I thought Battlesuits would go to 36 or 32. Definitely shocked by such a drastic nerf.

One question I have though, why are affinity 7 units STILL on more expensive techs than the affinity 9 units??

 

[Roxlimn]

Gort:

Compared to strength 14 marines, 24 strength is very nasty. And the weakest unit is the Xenoswarm at 22 strength, which is still very nasty comparatively, for a hefty discount in production cost (100 vs 160).

So yeah, pretty nasty.

All of that would be of use if the AI Marines and my units met each other in equal duel-style combats and tried to kill each other one on one. Even then, Marines can pick +5 hp regen on defense, which still makes it tough.

Except the units with less strength when they come out, which is all of them.

They're better. I wouldn't call it demolish.

Why on earth would you attack a city with one unit? That's idiocy. You use the strength 24 units to kill the enemy's strength 14 units, then you use the resulting clear battlefield to capture their cities.

If you rushed units, you only have Gunners, Marines, and the UU. It'll take a while to clear out the AI units. The 24 Strength Battlesuits give an edge, but not a commanding edge. They're not Strength 40 Battlesuits by a long shot. Even with a clear battlefield, you'll need a lot of units to take a Strength 40 City, at which point I'm wondering which part of this is a "rush" as opposed to just a normal attack with some Affinity beelining - which you'd do as part of any organized military assault at any point in the game anyway.

They have equal strength and you've already spent the production, and there isn't a unit to spend Xenomass or Firaxite on until Affinity 7, so doing what you advise would also be idiocy.

The buildings require the resources. Optical Surgery. Xenosanctuary. That sort of thing. Deleting the unit would also cut down on maintenance; and it's not like the units are that expensive to begin with. By the time Affinity10/4 rolls along, you should have enough Production to just make as many as you please as fast as you want.

Once that CARVR comes along at Affinity 7, you're best served deleting CNDRs to make Firaxite available for them. And then you just don't make CNDRs until 10/4.

Have you tried actually using the things? Because I have. I bumped up an AI through the new TR mechanics and tried using the Aff4 units and all the various units at various points during the game. The "good" part about having useless Battlesuits was that I actually bothered using LEV Tanks. Because my Battlesuits were worse than my normal Infantry. They're Aff6 - assuming you're teching during the war, your normal Infantry renders your UU obsolete pretty fast. And it stays obsolete for 8 more Affinity levels!

 

[Gamewizard]

The tier 4 affinity rush has certainly been nerfed. The window of opportunity is much smaller now if your enemies get to lvl 6 quickly, or are just spamming armors.

I would suggest a small strength boost, 28 or 30, or a price reduction for affinty 4 units.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

They could probably change when they upgrade

instead of 12 or 10+X make it 9 or 7+X

(7s can upgrade at 12 or 10+X, 9s can upgrade at 15 or 12+X, 12s upgrade at 18 or 16+
x as usual)

They could also nerf the tier 3 units to smooth it out overall

 

[Roxlimn]

The tier 4 affinity rush has certainly been nerfed. The window of opportunity is much smaller now if your enemies get to lvl 6 quickly, or are just spamming armors.

I would suggest a small strength boost, 28 or 30, or a price reduction for affinty 4 units.

Arguably, the entire unit is pointless now. They're not strong enough to lead a strong attack against the City Strength right now, so you're going to need a strong backbone of Gunners and Marines. And then you have to build up the UU force only when you get the tech. Why not just wait for Aff6 and attack then? Between waiting for the Battlesuits to finish producing and bringing them to the front, you're probably Aff5 already.

 

[Gort]

All of that would be of use if the AI Marines and my units met each other in equal duel-style combats and tried to kill each other one on one. Even then, Marines can pick +5 hp regen on defense, which still makes it tough.

You're right, +5 HP regen is totally equal to a 70% strength boost.

If you rushed units, you only have Gunners, Marines, and the UU. It'll take a while to clear out the AI units. The 24 Strength Battlesuits give an edge, but not a commanding edge. They're not Strength 40 Battlesuits by a long shot. Even with a clear battlefield, you'll need a lot of units to take a Strength 40 City, at which point I'm wondering which part of this is a "rush" as opposed to just a normal attack with some Affinity beelining - which you'd do as part of any organized military assault at any point in the game anyway.

Right, so the good part of the military you mentioned is the Battlesuits. A strength 40 city is either a capital or they've spent science and production to boost it up with a rocket battery or similar. It is not a standard city, which gets something like 23 strength.

Because my Battlesuits were worse than my normal Infantry.

Battlesuits are seriously better than tier 2 infantry (24 versus 14), slightly worse than tier 3 infantry (24 vs 24 but no abilities), and then significantly better than tier 4 infantry (66 vs 48).

I'll take that over battlesuits obsoleting infantry from the moment they appear until the end of the game.

 

[Roxlimn]

Gort:

Right, so the good part of the military you mentioned is the Battlesuits. A strength 40 city is either a capital or they've spent science and production to boost it up with a rocket battery or similar. It is not a standard city, which gets something like 23 strength.

23 is base City Strength. If the AI can't get higher than that before you're Aff4, then it's not much of an opponent, and you would probably be able to rush it with Gunners anyway.

Battlesuits are seriously better than tier 2 infantry (24 versus 14), slightly worse than tier 3 infantry (24 vs 24 but no abilities), and then significantly better than tier 4 infantry (66 vs 48).

I'll take that over battlesuits obsoleting infantry from the moment they appear until the end of the game.

Battlesuits are better for a very short while over Marines. They're strictly worse than standard Infantry for 8 Affinity levels - most of the game that matters. They don't only have no perks, they also require Strategic Resources, which you could be using for other things (and probably should for Supremacy and Xenomass).

Ironically enough, a 66 Strength Battlesuit isn't strictly better than a Centurion because a Centurion can get March. Paired with significant healing perks, a Centurion can battle on and keep in the battle where a Battlesuit would be worn and needing healing. They perform different roles, but the Battlesuit isn't straight out better.

For this reason, Battlesuits never actually obsoleted infantry until the end of the game, aside from their also requiring strategic resources. Tier 4 Infantry arrive before the BS upgrade (even prepatch), and they remain relevant to the end of the game. The main problem with Battlesuits has always been that they were too easy to create en masse - not that they were too strong.

Now, Aff4 units irrelevant and actively bad to build (!!!!) for most of the game that matters. Obsolete almost as soon as you get them. You can like that if you want.

 

[MadDjinn]

the problem here, is that someone isn't bringing missile rovers to attack cities

which just shows why exactly Battlesuits were OP. Both better than the soldiers they 'replace' AND there wasn't a need for anti-city ranged units.

so yeah. Bring anti-city ranged units when you take on a 40 defense city.

 

[Roxlimn]

In that respect, the "Battlesuit Rush" is no different than any other unit slingshot in any Civ ever made. Riflemen slingshots in Civ4 allowed players to take a purely Rifleman stack and take entire Civs with it. Cavalry Rushing - just Cavalry, nothing else. When you rush with Cho Ku No, Mohawk Warriors, Horsemen, Companion Cavalry, or Landknecht, it's mostly just that unit attacking and virtually nothing else. The Aff4 rushes were of these kinds of play.

If you need siege units to attack, the unit isn't viable for aiming for a rush, which means that the fact that it obsoletes so fast is a very, very bad thing.

 

[Meridian36]

Seems that i can't test the patch after my first game. Game wont allow me to click next turn button every time i start a new game. Tried rebooting game, pc. Will probably reinstall later this week.

I don´t really feel the sence of the new changes, ai isn´t competitive at all, i´ve seen AI´s sit on 16 harmony levels and ahead in science (don't focus on it that mutch) and no interest in building mind flower or whatsoever. TR changes make no sense, rather give us the system of civV where you at least could choose which city you're boosting rather than having the computer choose for you. Efficient nerf to ICS, but tall seems pretty impossible due to lack of great people, not to mention there are only 2 wonders that make sense: genevault and ectogenesis pot. Didn't really use tier 4 affinity units so can't say that much about that. Virtue changes dissapointing, prosperity is still best, industry slacks off because of TR nerf.

TL;DR changes aren't spectacular, TR nerfs slows gamepace, important stuff ignored

 

[traius]

In that respect, the "Battlesuit Rush" is no different than any other unit slingshot in any Civ ever made. Riflemen slingshots in Civ4 allowed players to take a purely Rifleman stack and take entire Civs with it. Cavalry Rushing - just Cavalry, nothing else. When you rush with Cho Ku No, Mohawk Warriors, Horsemen, Companion Cavalry, or Landknecht, it's mostly just that unit attacking and virtually nothing else. The Aff4 rushes were of these kinds of play.

If you need siege units to attack, the unit isn't viable for aiming for a rush, which means that the fact that it obsoletes so fast is a very, very bad thing.

Totally true about civ4, but I think one of the main differences here is that you lost a lot of riflemen against very cheap longbows that can defend a hill city better than a rifleman can attack, despite the rifleman costing 2x as much and having str 14 to the longbow's 6! You could, definitely, roll over civs, but it cost you a number or units. I think that's the real issue here; you're perhaps too used to losing almost no units.

 

[Ryoga]

If you rushed units, you only have Gunners, Marines, and the UU. It'll take a while to clear out the AI units. The 24 Strength Battlesuits give an edge, but not a commanding edge. They're not Strength 40 Battlesuits by a long shot.

I still haven't had the occasion to try it myself but what you say doesn't look like a bad thing to me.
A level 4 affinity unit should give an edge and not a "commanding edge".
Its generally a bad thing when one card trumps all the rest, and that's especially true if it's in the early phases of the game.

Now my worries is that the new affinity units might have been nerfed too much and made pointless. But if they still have an edge, then that's fine with me, I'll have to try it though.

Once that CARVR comes along at Affinity 7, you're best served deleting CNDRs to make Firaxite available for them. And then you just don't make CNDRs until 10/4.

Again that doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. As things were before there wasn't really any incentive in spending precious beakers to unlock them since they were only slightly better than CNDRs and cost more rsources.