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Civilization Characteristic Specific Techs (CCST)

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Khan Quest, Jul 19, 2004.

  1. Khan Quest

    Khan Quest Chieftain

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    I sugested this in the original thread back in December (#303) and would like to bring it up again for discussion.

    ---------------------------------

    Civilization Characteristic Specific Techs (CCST)

    CCSTs would be automatically granted to a civ whose characteristics match those of the tech. CCSTs are always dead-end techs. They may researched by other civs at somewhat of a high cost. The AI could trade them, would regard the CCSTs of there own characteristic as very valuble (for selling only). There would be one or two per age.

    As an example an Industrious civ after researching Industrialization would automatically get the Assembly-line tech.

    Some CCSTs may apply to two characteristics.

    Here are some ideas:

    Industrious
    Apprenticeship...city produces +1 shield
    Assembly-line...Factories shield output increases 10%
    Work Ethic...?
    Self-sufficiency...?
    Tooling...?

    Expansionist
    Outfitting...?
    Expeditionism...Settlers move 2
    Prospecting...% to reveal strategic resource early (though not be usable)

    Militaristic
    Drills...?
    Warrior Philosophy...Settlers have defense of 1.
    Athletic & Skill Contests (Olympics)...?
    War Games...% chance unit is fortified after final attack or move

    Commercial
    Speculation...?
    Credit...Earn some intrest earlier in the game
    Insurance...?
    Advertising...?
    Accounting...?

    Agricultural
    Terracing ...See below
    Preservation...(salting/smoking/canning) starvation slower
    Refridgeration...?
    ?...Build on a swamp
    ?...Ship food granary to granary

    Scientific
    Dewey decimal...Increase libraries research
    Universal Education...Increase Universities research
    Weights & measures...?
    Metric system...?
    Geology...Same as prospecting

    Religious
    Pilgrimage...?
    Centralized...Religion Less rivalry between provinces (if adopted)
    Fanaticism...?

    Sea Faring
    Seamanship (cross training)...?
    Damage Control...A ship fortified anywhere repairs. Repaired one turn in any city.
    ? All transports can carry a extra worker, beyond the slot limit (e.g. galleys can carry 2vunits + 1 worker)

    ---

    Here's the terracing idea from post #122

    Terracing, agricultural, (middle ages somewhere), dead-end tech – hills and mountains can be terraced to produce one extra food.
     
  2. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    I like it. Im gonna expand on this.

    Each civ gets two trait-specific techs each age. They each add an ability for the civ, similar to the bounses added by the civ-trait. The techs add a city improvment/small wonder (one or the other, depends on what the building is). The other adds a unit... So, its 2 per age, each adds an ability and 1 building/small wonder and 1 unit.

    The techs are to be placed along the "non-vital" advances for age advancment (like Free Artistry and Advanced Flight), their science cost should be average for the age. These techs can be traded, but only with civs that share your trait.

    So, each civ ends up with 4 extra advances per age, with 8 extra units and 8 extra buildings... diffrent from other civs... and a bit more diverse...


    INDUSTRIOUS
    Ancient:
    Apprenticeship: city square produces +1 shield.
    Building/Small Wonder: Blacksmith shop, mountains produce +1 shield
    Metal Tools: iron and gold resource squares +1 commerce
    Unit: Armed Worker, 0.1.1 ADM

    Middle Ages:
    Serfs: Captured workers work at 3/4 normal rate
    Early Industries: Bouns resources produce +1 gold/shield/trade (depends on resource)
    Building/Small Wonder: Mill, +10% shields, no pollution.

    Industrial:
    Assembly-line: Factories shield output increases 10%
    Building/Small Wonder: Workers Homes: 2 civil eng produce +2 shield and no pollution
    Work Ethic: captured workers become yours after 2 jobs

    Modern:
    Self-sufficiency: strat resources not needed for buildings
    Tooling: Cost of Manuf Plant less, +5% production
    Unit: Combat Engineer: 4.8.2 ADM, builds roads, railroads, fortresses, fortifications, airfields and radar




    MILITARISTIC
    Ancient:
    Drills: All units from goody huts are regular
    Unit: Armed Settler 0.1.1 ADM
    Warrior Philosophy: First unit built in any city is veteran

    Middle Ages:
    Athletic & Skill Contests: 10% chance of building an elite unit
    Siege Warfare: 150% effect of city walls
    Unit: Siege Tower 6.1.2 BRF, lethal bombard, wheeled, more expensive than Trebuchet

    Industrial:
    War Games: conscripts become regulars after 5 turns, regulars to vets, 10 turns
    Building/Small Wonder: Army Base, draftees are regulars, produces 1 reg infantry unit every 10 turns
    Field Fortifications: 25% chance unit is fortified after final attack or move

    Modern:
    C&C: Increased LoS in all units.
    Special Operations: Spy become veteran, cost of missions decreases
    Building/Small Wonder: SpecOps HQ: Allows building of SpecFor units
    Unit: Special Forces: Amphib, Para, Stealth, Invisible, Hidden Nat, detector (?)unit 10.6.3 ADM



    RELIGIOUS
    Ancient:
    Mythology: temples upkeep decreases
    Religious Holidays: WLTKD in one of your cities, in next turn it moves to another city, next turn to a third city...

    Medieval:
    Religious Persecution: Reduced War Wariness
    Pilgrimage: All Religious Wonders create +5 trade
    Unit: Missionary 2.1.2, all terrain as roads, worker enslave, detector.
    Small Wonder: Reformation, makes one person content in all cities

    Industrial:
    Missions: random free spy in 1/2 of civs in game
    Building/Small Wonder: Mission: reduces corruption and +1 culture
    Centralized Religion: +1 trade from all squares in 3 biggest cites

    Modern:
    Fanaticism: ZERO war wariness for 5 turns after declaring war
    Unit: Zealot: 8.8.2 ADM +1 HP, very cheap, costs one population point, invisible, stealth attack
    Mass Media Religion: +1 happy face in all cities with +12 population




    SEAFARING
    Ancient:
    Oar Banks: Add +1 attack and movement to galleys
    Unit: Trireme: EXPENSIVE 2.2.2 ADM +1HP
    Boarding Parties: ships enslave ability

    Middle Ages:
    Fishing Nets: coast tiles within 1 square of city produce +1 food
    ???

    Industrial:
    Merchant Marine: Troop Transports cheaper, city on coast produces +2 commerce
    Unit: Liner: 1.1.8 carry 8, more expensive than Transport
    Sea Bombard: Ships have lethal bombard on ground units
    Building/Small Wonder: Naval Academy: produces 1 ship-of-the-line/ ironclad/ destroyer each 8 turns

    Modern:
    Seaborne Resupply: Ships can heal at sea.
    Unit: Hovercraft: 1.1.10 ADM Invisible. Carry 2
    Sea Salvage Tech: All ensalved ships are regular.
    Building/Small Wonder: Oil Rig, all ocean squares produce +1 shield




    AGRICULTURAL
    Ancient:
    Terracing: Build Terraces on hills
    Hunting skills: Game, Ivory, Horses and Fur squares produce +1 food
    Building/Small Wonder:

    Middle Ages:
    Farming: 1 turn Irrigation
    Wells: Irrigation everywhere
    Building/Small Wonder:
    Unit: Citizen Settler: same as settler, costs one pop point, creates size 2 city.

    Industrial:
    Food Shipments: Ship food granary to granary
    Preservation: Food in granary is doubled when there is food shortage


    Modern:
    Mass Farming: Wheat tiles produce +2 food, irrigated grassland and plains +1
    Cold/Wet Weather Farming: Tundra, Swamp and Jungle produce +1 food.

    NEED HELP HERE!! AGRICULTURAL IS HARD!! help help help!!




    SCIENTIFIC:
    Ancient:
    Weights & measures: City Improvments (not wonders) are 10% cheaper
    Alloys and Alternate Fuels: Upgrade units cost reduced by 20%
    Building/Small Wonder: Paper Mill: Library and University upkeep cheaper.

    Middle Ages:
    Lost Ancient Secrets: Gives access to ramdom ancient civ-specific techs. (1/2 of all)
    Mechanics and Ballistics: cannons get +1 range, trebuchets, Arty and Rocket Arty get +1 bombard
    Unit: Bombard: 7.1.1 BRF, lethal bombard.

    Industrial:
    Metric system: +1 gold from all import and export of resources
    Geology: +1 shield from mining of hill and moutains
    Building/Small Wonder: Museum: +20% science per city
    Unit: Siege Artillery 10.1.3 BRF lethal sea bombard

    Modern:
    State Funded Rescearch: City w/ palace, forbidden palace and SecPolice HQ produce extra 20% science
    Genetic Manipulation: Infantry units +1 HP, heal 2 HP in the field. Mech Inf +1 Movement
    Unit: UAV: 0.1.20 ADM 4.0.1 BRF, +1 LoS Recon Drone, Detector Unit.
    Building/Small Wonder: Com Sats: Reduces Corruption in all cites.



    COMMERCIAL
    Ancient:
    Trade Routes: All cites on same continent of your civ are connected.
    Trade Markets: luxuries traded and local produce +5 gold
    Building/Small Wonder: Silk Road: imported luxuries produce +1 happy face
    Unit: Road Gang: 0.0.2 Worker-like Build roads in one turn. cannot build anything else.

    Middle Ages:
    ??
    ??
    Building/Small Wonder: Mint: All gold squares produce +1 trade and shields

    Industrial:
    Resource Exchange: Strategic resources trade generates +1 trade for all resources traded.
    Credit: Increases Wall Street intrest rate
    Unit: Blockade Runner: 4.4.4 ADM 3.0.1 BRF Hidden Nationality, Invisible


    Modern:
    Petrochemical Industries: Oil squares produce +10 gold if outside city radius, +10 shields if inside.
    Insurance: When Units and City improvements destroyed, 10% of the cost in gold is returned.







    this is a work in progress... comments, suggestions and anything else is welcome... :crazyeye:

    --------------------------------
    THANKS TO KHAN QUEST, VIZUROK, PUNDA THE PANDA, MANOFMIRACLES, CRISMON238 :goodjob:
     
  3. troytheface

    troytheface Chieftain

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    cool ideas yes, the scenarios kinda touch on this, but such a variety would really add to the fun of choosing a civ- if the game makers really want to to reach a broader audience they need to think along these lines- the game rules and mechanics would not be any more complicated..just more choices...Which would be my arguement for Civ4...more variety ...units, terrrain, tech..ect...and less amount (number).... make units or workers really expensive or something..nothing more boring than watching stacks and stacks of troops move around.
     
  4. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    these extra techs really wouldnt add more in-game choices, just at the start of the game. 3-4 extra buildings, 2-3 extra units (some which would replace some other units) and a few extra skills IMO wouldnt complicate the game. A bit more diverse, and would make militaristic civs truly militaristic, cultural civs cultural, etc etc etc...

    I AGREE. it sux. i hate watching AI fleets move one square, one ship at a time....
     
  5. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    I actually like the culturally sensitive tech trees from the scenarios... I'd like to see them incorporate that into the main game somehow. (You know which scenarios I'm talking about? In particular, the middle ages one.)
     
  6. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

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    Culture-specific and trait-specific techs are needed for the game! Absulutely good idea but i needs some work.
     
  7. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

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    Let me see: 2 techs for each age, 2 units, 1 drill and 1 Small wonder/building.

    RELIGIOUS:
    Religion makes people happy, 10% lux happiness. (dunno how to mod it :D)

    Ancient:
    Mithology: temples upkeep decreases
    Religious Holidays: WLTKD in one of your cities, in next turn it moves to another city, next turn to a third city...

    Medieval:
    Unit: Fanatic 5.1.1 (expensive)
    Religious Persecution: Foreign Citizen assimilate faster
    Missions: Map tradign becomes available
    Unit: Missionary 2.1.2, worker enslave
    Small Wonder: Reformation, makes one people content
     
  8. Oni

    Oni Machiavelli

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    I think it is a very good idea.. But here is my input :D

    The units given should be civ specific. Not something general that all civs can get or even all civs of that type.

    I like the idea of 2 techs per age and One unit. This would allow all civs to get a speacial unit each age (what some have wanted for a while).

    Also the techs should be tradable but ofcourse the techs with units only come with the other features (small wonders/ city improvements/ etc). Furthermore, yoru advisor should always point out blatently when it is a specific tech for your civ. Not sure what he should say but something like how he discourages it and IF you are to trade it you should ask for alot. Just so for the early games (meaning someones first few games) as a certain civ they don't space it when trying to get someone to start a war.. or just give some Iron and gie away their big prize for the age.

    OH and one last thing. There should be a time limit on receiving OTHER civ specific techs. So you can't get an ancient industrial tech in the industrial age if you aren't indusrial (you would have already gotten if you were though). It shoudl be like a one age limit or something.
     
  9. Khan Quest

    Khan Quest Chieftain

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    Superpelon - Excellent elaboration.

    Continue your your descriptions for Expantionist, Commercial, Agricultural and Scientific Traits.
     
  10. Punda The Panda

    Punda The Panda Chieftain

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    Superpelon's "Special Forces" unit might be a bit on the overpowered side.
    I mean, I'm thinking it would be a Para/Amphib 12/10/1 unit, or an Infantry with Hidden Nationality. Giving it Para/Amphib, Hidden Nationality, Stealth, Invisibility, and Detector is going a bit far.
     
  11. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    Ill agree to lowering its stats a bit... 10.6.2 ADM and making it expensive.

    10 Attack, good for taking out redlined units and infantry units.

    6 Defense, SpecFor are not supposed to fight defensive battles, they run.

    2 Move, Small units move much faster than bigger units. There are already several 2M Infantry units in the game (Jag Warriors, Impi, Samurai). I might even push it to 3M... move-attack/pillage-move...

    As to the Para/Amphib... i think the whole point of have such a unit is that it should be able to do anything. HALO jumps, underwater insertions, etc, etc. The Hidden Nationality would be "if youre captured, we will deny your existance" thing. Also, who will know if a dozen guys planted bombs in a mine and then ran?? Or if the dozen guys hit a redlined tank unit?? Same deal with stealth. They should be able to CHOOSE to hit the weaker unit, or whatever. They are small-unit.

    Detector is fine, ill take it off, but many time SpecFor dont even fight... the perform recon for the big guns and warplanes...

    any comments on the rest of the units???? input is welcome.... :p
     
  12. Punda The Panda

    Punda The Panda Chieftain

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    Yeah, but there has to be something that keeps people from filling the map with Special Forces units instead of tanks. They could be made incapable of conquering cities, they could be made weaker (but with all of the special abilities) or perhaps each city of over 12 pop. could only produce 1 Special Forces unit, and each city over 18, 2, and each city over 24 could produce 3.
     
  13. ManOfMiracles

    ManOfMiracles Hogwarts Class of '86

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    Hmmm, not bad. Here's a few others:

    Agricultural could have workers learn to dowse or develop Artesian wells in order to gain a fresh water supply for irrigation. The workers would have to spend time examining each potential source tile (only certain terrains?) and there would be a fixed probability of success (5-10%?) Underground rivers/water sources would not gain commerce bonuses for tiles or allow Hoover Dam, etc. I agree with the terracing idea also.

    Militaristic should have earlier aerial recon--does not scout uncharted territory but does accurately show non-hidden troop movements/placements in known lands/seas.

    It is hard to come up with something for expansionist--maybe their workers can have a 50% road-building (ONLY) bonus on top of any other bonuses (i.e., industrious, government type)

    Seafaring is also hard for me since they have such an advantage already on non-Pangaea maps. Perhaps make it so their ships can see further inland than non-seafaring or allow earlier production of an amphibious unit.

    Religious could have proselytization to attempt to sway other cities to culturally flip--this would enhance standard espionage propaganda attempts and democracies would not be immune

    Scientific could study geology and gain the ability to develop geothermal energy (or predict/prevent earthquakes and volcano eruptions if those disasters are implemented)

    Commercial--I like the way usury appears before banking in DyP. Commercial civs in modern era could develop spam and use it as another propaganda-type weapon against opponents (democracies included). Insurance and speculation could get a little too complex although I can see where legalized gambling could be exclusively for commercial civs. Theoretically gambling dens would make lots of money but would also decrease worker productivity and even cause military slacking. Of course your opponents' units could come over and place a few bets and drain their treasury and be non-productive for their country.

    A possible new wonder would be something like Mammoth Caves which could be found either after X number of successful dowsing attempts or after a scientific civ researches geology. Effect could be a "safe haven" for citizens on that continent during an attack so population isn't killed.
     
  14. superpelon

    superpelon DemoGame Pelon

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    TO PUNDA THE PANDA:

    About the special forces... a good idea would be to require a certain number of other units per specfor unit... you know, for every 10 infanty units (not tanks, planes, arty or ships) you can build one specfor unit... but make it expensive...

    how does that sound??
     
  15. crimson238

    crimson238 War Correspondent

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    When it comes to the SPEC 4, what about having them only able to be built out of a special small wonder.... like Ranger School, or the appropriate civ counterpart. tha tway only 1 city per civ could build them, and that woudl decrease their #s in the game
     
  16. Punda The Panda

    Punda The Panda Chieftain

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    Indeedy. It would be nice to have a force capable of going around unseen, but too many of them would cause severe havoc and completely smoot up the game.. but then, they aren't *too* powerful.

    I think the best way would make them very, very expensive. 2 or 3 tanks worth should cover it... because 3 tanks could *own* a Spec Ops guy.. if they could find him. A town could adequately defend itself against several spec-ops.. the only thing they'd be good for is ripping up improvements, scouting, and spying, especially if they're very expensive-- which is just what they should be for.

    Religious holidays should be a WLTKD in every city, 1/10th of the time. That way, you can't exploit it with a small number of cities WLTKing all the time.

    Your Combat Engineers have a higher attack than Infantry, and no defense. That's a bit strange- they would never attack, their purpose is to dig 'trenches' and whatnot- so they should be 4,8,1, with the ability to build all of those handy combat structures, + railroads.

    The Scientific Special units could be longer ranged artillery units- Trigonometry to the rescue!

    The Agricultural special unit could be the Doukhobor. A completely non-violent, happy little folk that pick up and move around and live a happy, pastoral lifestyle. A unit with no attack, no defense, Hidden Nationality and automatically initiate 'propaganda' against any cities within a 2-square radius.

    Scientific should be the biggest in the Modern ages- their special unit could be the Genetically Superior Infantry, at 10,10,2, or the Fast Tank at 16,8,4.
     
  17. crimson238

    crimson238 War Correspondent

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    Maybe scientific could get communication satelites? Reduces corruption between cities on differant continents, by, obvisoly, giving them better communications, so reduces the distance from palace corruption modifier.
     
  18. Khan Quest

    Khan Quest Chieftain

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    I originally proposed this idea back in December but, this is a good place to bring it up again.
    ---------------------

    A civilization’s characteristics should be able to possibly change over time, depending on how the game is played. This would be determined by the types of technology researched when given choice, and how city production is managed. If for example a militaristic civ, builds few barracks, few offensive units, etc, but builds a lot of temples, cathedrals, the Oracle, etc., researches theology before Chivalry, the civ should shift from militaristic to religious. Researching technologies exclusive to other characteristics (the type proposed in this thread) would have a very significant push toward that characteristic.

    There should be bar graphs showing each of the 8 characteristics. If one other characteristic is half again more than a current characteristic the switch would take place.

    I think the Mongols haven't exhibited expansionist character in centuries.

    This would also salvage a game where a characteristic doesn’t come into play, such as a land-locked seafaring civ.
     
  19. Oni

    Oni Machiavelli

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    I think htat is a very good idea but it should be an option, Civiliation Attribute Shifting. Cuase I think sometimes I would not want it but others it would be nice... And In scenerios I think the creators would want to maintain specific attributes.

    But then if there is attribute shifting how would you handle specific research?

    You can only research your base attributes? Or maybe you can switch but you can not research past attributes If a switch takes place.
     
  20. Khan Quest

    Khan Quest Chieftain

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    The attribute shifting would be your choice, depending on how you play the game. You would have to watch the graph and do things that would prevent an unwanted shift, or force a desired shift.
     

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