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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 6
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 9
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    I'm gonna stick up for Byzantium here. Sure you have to make sure you get some religion early by way of SH/religious CS/Natural Wonder/Good pantheon if it's going, but their UA is arguably the most adaptable and versatile going - not built for a 'I'm going domination with keshiks whatever' type game, more a 'I'm going to start a random game and see what I can make of it' game. Plus Dromons are great, and mean that the upgrade to frigates get logistics earlier, which makes them beasts. Cataphract can also be powerful in certain situations.

    Downgrade is France. They aren't bad, they're just plain boring. Even the UU's are pretty standard melee line and just do not excite me, even though they are fairly strong.
     
  2. ezbutton

    ezbutton Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 27
    Mongolia 7
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    I can't let the Iroquois go down this quickly. Honestly, the only thing that people keep continuously bash upon is his start bias and not getting enough forests but that's why we're able to pick out map setting (set rainfall to wet). Iroquois have some of the best synergy between his unit, ability and building and as a whole he can really be fearsome. His UB is the only building that produces extra hammers and in excess, having a 1:c5food: and 3:c5production: forest (with lumbermill) at the medieval era before you get public schools tech, which is in the industrial (!!) era, is huge and hence extremely flexible useful for tall or wide empires. Their UU has the same strength as legions if they're in forests or jungles and they are IRONLESS!! Honestly the only knock I have against them is that his UA should provide not just the railroad production between cities but also railroad movements to his forests.

    I down-voted Mongolia, but that doesn't mean I don't like them by any means. I just think his UA got nerfed when knights got the +1 movement, therefore his keshiks are easier to catch with knights. Also, I really really don't like the city-state bonus aspect of his UA as I find it pure dead weight, especially now that hostile city-states don't demand for the conquering of other city-states. If his UA were changed to increase the effectiveness of bullying then I'd probably have voted otherwise, but aside from all that his UU's are amazing!
     
  3. krozman

    krozman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    46
    Arabia 21
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 11
    Korea 26
    Maya 28 (+1)
    Mongolia 5 (-2)
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Maya's unique building gives me a faith and tech advantage over time at the most critical time when playing on Immortal. Free Great People can be game breaking on certain victory conditions.

    Playing Mongolia on Immortal is like playing Maya on Deity. Enough said.
     
  4. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    3,562
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 9
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 16
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Arabia: got to get them up near the top as they are a great civ to play as and against.

    Japan: In all of my games that had Japan as an opponent, they had never put up much of a fight and usually were one of the first to go (of the civs remaining the board).
     
  5. ense7en

    ense7en n7

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 7
    Japan 7
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19


    Japan is just a bit too one-dimensional for my liking.
    They are definitely a strong civ in war, but unfortunately that's about it.
    Samurai were great in vanilla, but in Gods and Kings they are a lot less exciting, and Zero, well honestly, most late game units are just too late to matter for normal play.

    Cannot believe Persia is as low as it is.
    Achaemenid Legacy for golden ages alone makes them extremely strong, nevermind the extra movement and strength!
    Satrap's Court is icing on the cake. Extra happiness on a building you build in pretty much every city every time to fuel more golden ages? Yes please!
    Immortals can be very strong when used well.
    I'd easily consider Persia one of the very best civs, and the AI almost always does well with them as well.
     
  6. Kurtbob

    Kurtbob Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    470
    Location:
    Arizona
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 23
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 11
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 5
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Keeping the Iroquois alive. Mohawk rushes and production cities. Also, they are always a runaway in my games which keeps me on my toes.

    Put a negative on Japan. Powerful UA, lackluster UU. It's sad to see Longswordsman weakened in G&K, especially for those civs with Longswordsman uniques. Remember in early Vanilla when they were BEASTS? Not anymore. Sorry, Samurai.
     
  7. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,264
    Only if you define success in terms of how many turns it takes you to win a game (which I admit seems to be all the rage these days). Spend the first half of the game building a strong base and the second smashing faces with guns, and they can be super successful. Not a fan of the lancer guy but the rest of the Civ is solid.
     
  8. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Essen, Germany
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Byzantium 10
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 8
    Japan 5
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    My vote for the day goes to Babylon again. The reasons are 2; first, you don't need to worry about your starting location - you can make any loc work, and even if you have to move for 2-3 turns before you settle, that doesn't set you back. Second, even if you "luck out" with 2-3 neighbours around, you can still make it work. AI usually plays very aggressively, and tries to settle around you in order to cut your expansion plans short. This way, if you can't settle a second city, you will be just fine playing OCC. Many other civilizations, starting with France and Korea, will find it really hard to advance with only a single city if necessary.
    Oh, and I will say it again... Please cut the Babylonian UU and UB some slack, will you? This is a civ that thrived and perished before the birth of Christ, so you can't expect any wicked units from it. No mothership either...

    The thumbs down is for France this time, exactly for the reason I upvoted Babylon. I wanted to try France out and started selling luxuries like crazy to buy a second and third settler early, and opted for Liberty to get one more, just to find out I had Persia, Ethiopia and Japan as neighbors and they all settled their second very close to Paris, so there was no way in hell I could pop a third city without it being completely cut off from the capital in the near future. This is a HUGE setback. Same will be for Korea - if you can't settle 3-4 cities, you will be lagging behind tech-wise the whole game. I simply don't like to be dependent on various factors...
     
  9. Dunduks

    Dunduks Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Byzantium 8 (-2)
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 9 (+1)
    Japan 5
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Byzantium - no synergy at all + 2 UU. You are weak link.
    Iroquois - ironles sworsman, perfect synergy, tall or wide, should stay much longer.
     
  10. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,171
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 24
    Byzantium 8 (-2)
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 28
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    The Iroquois defenders have me intrigued and get a vote out of me.

    Down vote to a long time favorite of mine. Like France, I was hoping for more out this Civ. Would have been interesting if they could have thought of a way to make them a tall warmongering Civ.
     
  11. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25 (+1)
    Byzantium 8
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 10
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 26 (-2)
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 19

    Babylon is still the most adaptable civ in the game. :c5science: is key to any strategy. Get an early tech lead and the opposition will never catch up. Bablyon can to this like no other civ.

    Maya is not a very good civ. The long count UA is more of a liability than a benefit. If the great people were free, they may be okay. Having the great people increase the cost of targeted generation of great people gives Maya a malice which must be overcome, and the Pyramid and Atlatlist are not good enough to give them a leg up.
     
  12. loki75

    loki75 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 8
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 11 (+1)
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 18
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 17 (-2)

    Iroquois: another up for this civ, all the synergies between their UU, UA and UB make them very interesting to play (especially because it works in jungles too).
    Siam: I've had too many games where I just waited for an hour pressing "next turn" to finish an OCC cultural victory with Siam. Booooring!
     
  13. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Saim is not an OCC civ. Try them again with a quick 4 city REX and go tall. Save the Legalism free buildings to get four free Wats (the Siamese UB replacement for the University).

    Also, Maya should be 26. They were 28 and I subtracted 2. Let's not overrate them any more than they already are ;)
     
  14. loki75

    loki75 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    83
    Corrected. :)
    May try Siam again, in G&K. Downvoted them from Vanilla experience.
     
  15. Beethovania

    Beethovania Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Sweden
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 11
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 17

    I only played as byzantine once, but i'm not really that impressed, they're not the worst civ but of all that are left they are my least favourite. UU is really not that great, the UA is okay but nothing special, it's very depedant on what choices that isn't already taken by the other civs. They don't fit my style.

    I do like Ottomans though, i find their janissary very strong, and i like their UA, i usually play for domination with them and thats usually works out well.
     
  16. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    Arabia 22 (-2) I don't trade to the ai a lot.
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 17
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 11
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20 (+1) ever gotten a horse on a plain? and I love the tundra start bias.
    Siam 17
     
  17. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,124
    Surely that has to do with going OCC cultural victory, nothing to do with the civ? Siam doesn't do anything obvious to reward OCC play that other civs don't. They have a unique culture building, which by its nature benefits them most if you have multiple cities, and they generate far more culture (if suitable CSes are around) with multiple cities than with one.

    They're even stronger now (the 'permanent friendship' trick), but there wasn't any obvious reason to choose them for OCC in vanilla either.

    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 15
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 11
    Japan 3
    Korea 26
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Upvote to Siam - both one of my two favourites that remains in the race (the other being Korea, not currently in need of help), and one of the game's strongest civs when used correctly, as well as being unfairly maligned here by the tendency to vote along "I played them badly so they suck" lines (which already killed Sweden long before its time). Elephants are now late, short-lived, and no stronger than Musketmen, but everything else about Siam is the same or stronger as when they were a leading civ in vanilla. You have to luck out a bit to gain early benefit from religious CSes, and all too often I end up playing them in games where my nearest CSes are mostly or all mercantile, but as someone who plays for CS bonuses a lot, an extra 50% bonus from them is amazing and sets Siam up very well for any victory condition.

    Downvote to Ethiopia, just because while I like having an Ethiopian civ in the game and would really like to want to play them, a UU and UA that both do the same thing are inflexible, I don't actively engage in warfare enough to make either useful, and while the uninteresting (to me) 'OCC turtle cultural victory' is certainly not the only play for them (they would probably reward my typically moderately tall play with 4-6 cities), it's the most obvious way to exploit them to best effect.
     
  18. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,499
    Location:
    London
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16 +1
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 11
    Japan 1 -2
    Korea 26
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Ethiopia - surprised this is getting a few negatives. The Stele alone makes this civ worthwhile because it allows them to dominate religion pretty much unopposed. There are few other civs who can beat them if you make religion a priority.

    Japan - Generally poor UU's IMO because of where they appear on the tech tree (even though samurai are good for what they replace). Slightly iffy UA too. I agree with what others have said - it would have been better if they could have made Japan a tall militaristic civ, but i dont honestly think that the game lends itself to such entities.
     
  19. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 9
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 9
    Japan 1
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18

    Iroquois: I don't really know why people love them so much. Granted, forest bias is good with the UA, and a powerful defence - but compared to the Inca, they feel way less versatile. And I really do not understand what is so great about the long house. I have to work all those forest tiles to get the hammer benfit - okay for puppets, but in my cities, I would prefer the flat +10% prod bonus instead...
    But maybe someone can point out what I am missing.

    Korea: I like specialists. :)
     
  20. woodshadows

    woodshadows King

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    Newfoundland
    Arabia 22
    Aztecs 17
    Babylon 25
    Byzantium 6
    Carthage 24
    China 23
    England 21
    Ethiopia 16
    France 10
    Greece 24
    Inca 26
    Iroquois 9
    Korea 27
    Maya 26
    Mongolia 5
    Netherlands 23
    Ottoman Empire 19
    Persia 17
    Roman Empire 20
    Russia 20
    Siam 18


    Knock Japan out - I never seem to get iron working early enough in games since G&K to make samurai a viable option during medieval. Bushido is kind of boring and for whatever reason I never seem to build zeros.

    Frane - I've never had a bad game as them, admittedly they aren't the most fun civ in the world to play, that free +2 culture per city doesn't require any creativity or effort to gain, but one still must survive the early game without a UU.
     

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