Civilization elimination thread

Arabia 21
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 6
Japan 11
Korea 26
Maya 27
Mongolia 9
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 16
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

I'm gonna stick up for Byzantium here. Sure you have to make sure you get some religion early by way of SH/religious CS/Natural Wonder/Good pantheon if it's going, but their UA is arguably the most adaptable and versatile going - not built for a 'I'm going domination with keshiks whatever' type game, more a 'I'm going to start a random game and see what I can make of it' game. Plus Dromons are great, and mean that the upgrade to frigates get logistics earlier, which makes them beasts. Cataphract can also be powerful in certain situations.

Downgrade is France. They aren't bad, they're just plain boring. Even the UU's are pretty standard melee line and just do not excite me, even though they are fairly strong.
 
Arabia 21
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 7
Japan 11
Korea 26
Maya 27
Mongolia 7
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 16
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

I can't let the Iroquois go down this quickly. Honestly, the only thing that people keep continuously bash upon is his start bias and not getting enough forests but that's why we're able to pick out map setting (set rainfall to wet). Iroquois have some of the best synergy between his unit, ability and building and as a whole he can really be fearsome. His UB is the only building that produces extra hammers and in excess, having a 1:c5food: and 3:c5production: forest (with lumbermill) at the medieval era before you get public schools tech, which is in the industrial (!!) era, is huge and hence extremely flexible useful for tall or wide empires. Their UU has the same strength as legions if they're in forests or jungles and they are IRONLESS!! Honestly the only knock I have against them is that his UA should provide not just the railroad production between cities but also railroad movements to his forests.

I down-voted Mongolia, but that doesn't mean I don't like them by any means. I just think his UA got nerfed when knights got the +1 movement, therefore his keshiks are easier to catch with knights. Also, I really really don't like the city-state bonus aspect of his UA as I find it pure dead weight, especially now that hostile city-states don't demand for the conquering of other city-states. If his UA were changed to increase the effectiveness of bullying then I'd probably have voted otherwise, but aside from all that his UU's are amazing!
 
Arabia 21
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 7
Japan 11
Korea 26
Maya 28 (+1)
Mongolia 5 (-2)
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 16
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

Maya's unique building gives me a faith and tech advantage over time at the most critical time when playing on Immortal. Free Great People can be game breaking on certain victory conditions.

Playing Mongolia on Immortal is like playing Maya on Deity. Enough said.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 7
Japan 9
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 16
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

Arabia: got to get them up near the top as they are a great civ to play as and against.

Japan: In all of my games that had Japan as an opponent, they had never put up much of a fight and usually were one of the first to go (of the civs remaining the board).
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 7
Japan 7
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19


Japan is just a bit too one-dimensional for my liking.
They are definitely a strong civ in war, but unfortunately that's about it.
Samurai were great in vanilla, but in Gods and Kings they are a lot less exciting, and Zero, well honestly, most late game units are just too late to matter for normal play.

Cannot believe Persia is as low as it is.
Achaemenid Legacy for golden ages alone makes them extremely strong, nevermind the extra movement and strength!
Satrap's Court is icing on the cake. Extra happiness on a building you build in pretty much every city every time to fuel more golden ages? Yes please!
Immortals can be very strong when used well.
I'd easily consider Persia one of the very best civs, and the AI almost always does well with them as well.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 23
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 11
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 8
Japan 5
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

Keeping the Iroquois alive. Mohawk rushes and production cities. Also, they are always a runaway in my games which keeps me on my toes.

Put a negative on Japan. Powerful UA, lackluster UU. It's sad to see Longswordsman weakened in G&K, especially for those civs with Longswordsman uniques. Remember in early Vanilla when they were BEASTS? Not anymore. Sorry, Samurai.
 
Sweden unique attributes don't have much synergy. UA favours peaceful game while 2UUs mean war in mid-late game. Hackas are a below average UU, there is nothing really 'great' about them. Caroleons on the other hand are pretty awesome but as a whole Sweden sounds a bit lacking. It is like car having 2 tires of a tractor & to of a bus. Anyway Sweden is still a fun civ to play as they are quite unique but I would love to have their UA or hackas tweaked or changed to make them go well along with each other.

Only if you define success in terms of how many turns it takes you to win a game (which I admit seems to be all the rage these days). Spend the first half of the game building a strong base and the second smashing faces with guns, and they can be super successful. Not a fan of the lancer guy but the rest of the Civ is solid.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 24
Byzantium 10
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 8
Japan 5
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

My vote for the day goes to Babylon again. The reasons are 2; first, you don't need to worry about your starting location - you can make any loc work, and even if you have to move for 2-3 turns before you settle, that doesn't set you back. Second, even if you "luck out" with 2-3 neighbours around, you can still make it work. AI usually plays very aggressively, and tries to settle around you in order to cut your expansion plans short. This way, if you can't settle a second city, you will be just fine playing OCC. Many other civilizations, starting with France and Korea, will find it really hard to advance with only a single city if necessary.
Oh, and I will say it again... Please cut the Babylonian UU and UB some slack, will you? This is a civ that thrived and perished before the birth of Christ, so you can't expect any wicked units from it. No mothership either...

The thumbs down is for France this time, exactly for the reason I upvoted Babylon. I wanted to try France out and started selling luxuries like crazy to buy a second and third settler early, and opted for Liberty to get one more, just to find out I had Persia, Ethiopia and Japan as neighbors and they all settled their second very close to Paris, so there was no way in hell I could pop a third city without it being completely cut off from the capital in the near future. This is a HUGE setback. Same will be for Korea - if you can't settle 3-4 cities, you will be lagging behind tech-wise the whole game. I simply don't like to be dependent on various factors...
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 24
Byzantium 8 (-2)
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 9 (+1)
Japan 5
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

Byzantium - no synergy at all + 2 UU. You are weak link.
Iroquois - ironles sworsman, perfect synergy, tall or wide, should stay much longer.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 24
Byzantium 8 (-2)
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 10
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 28
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

The Iroquois defenders have me intrigued and get a vote out of me.

Down vote to a long time favorite of mine. Like France, I was hoping for more out this Civ. Would have been interesting if they could have thought of a way to make them a tall warmongering Civ.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25 (+1)
Byzantium 8
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 10
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 26 (-2)
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 19

Babylon is still the most adaptable civ in the game. :c5science: is key to any strategy. Get an early tech lead and the opposition will never catch up. Bablyon can to this like no other civ.

Maya is not a very good civ. The long count UA is more of a liability than a benefit. If the great people were free, they may be okay. Having the great people increase the cost of targeted generation of great people gives Maya a malice which must be overcome, and the Pyramid and Atlatlist are not good enough to give them a leg up.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 8
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11 (+1)
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 17 (-2)

Iroquois: another up for this civ, all the synergies between their UU, UA and UB make them very interesting to play (especially because it works in jungles too).
Siam: I've had too many games where I just waited for an hour pressing "next turn" to finish an OCC cultural victory with Siam. Booooring!
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 8
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11 (+1)
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 27
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 18
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 17 (-2)

Iroquois: another up for this civ, all the synergies between their UU, UA and UB make them very interesting to play (especially because it works in jungles too).
Siam: I've had too many games where I just waited for an hour pressing "next turn" to finish an OCC cultural victory with Siam. Booooring!

Saim is not an OCC civ. Try them again with a quick 4 city REX and go tall. Save the Legalism free buildings to get four free Wats (the Siamese UB replacement for the University).

Also, Maya should be 26. They were 28 and I subtracted 2. Let's not overrate them any more than they already are ;)
 
Saim is not an OCC civ. Try them again with a quick 4 city REX and go tall. Save the Legalism free buildings to get four free Wats (the Siamese UB replacement for the University).

Also, Maya should be 26. They were 28 and I subtracted 2. Let's not overrate them any more than they already are ;)

Corrected. :)
May try Siam again, in G&K. Downvoted them from Vanilla experience.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 17

I only played as byzantine once, but i'm not really that impressed, they're not the worst civ but of all that are left they are my least favourite. UU is really not that great, the UA is okay but nothing special, it's very depedant on what choices that isn't already taken by the other civs. They don't fit my style.

I do like Ottomans though, i find their janissary very strong, and i like their UA, i usually play for domination with them and thats usually works out well.
 
Arabia 22 (-2) I don't trade to the ai a lot.
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 17
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20 (+1) ever gotten a horse on a plain? and I love the tundra start bias.
Siam 17
 
Siam: I've had too many games where I just waited for an hour pressing "next turn" to finish an OCC cultural victory with Siam. Booooring!

Surely that has to do with going OCC cultural victory, nothing to do with the civ? Siam doesn't do anything obvious to reward OCC play that other civs don't. They have a unique culture building, which by its nature benefits them most if you have multiple cities, and they generate far more culture (if suitable CSes are around) with multiple cities than with one.

May try Siam again, in G&K. Downvoted them from Vanilla experience.

They're even stronger now (the 'permanent friendship' trick), but there wasn't any obvious reason to choose them for OCC in vanilla either.

Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 15
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11
Japan 3
Korea 26
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 18

Upvote to Siam - both one of my two favourites that remains in the race (the other being Korea, not currently in need of help), and one of the game's strongest civs when used correctly, as well as being unfairly maligned here by the tendency to vote along "I played them badly so they suck" lines (which already killed Sweden long before its time). Elephants are now late, short-lived, and no stronger than Musketmen, but everything else about Siam is the same or stronger as when they were a leading civ in vanilla. You have to luck out a bit to gain early benefit from religious CSes, and all too often I end up playing them in games where my nearest CSes are mostly or all mercantile, but as someone who plays for CS bonuses a lot, an extra 50% bonus from them is amazing and sets Siam up very well for any victory condition.

Downvote to Ethiopia, just because while I like having an Ethiopian civ in the game and would really like to want to play them, a UU and UA that both do the same thing are inflexible, I don't actively engage in warfare enough to make either useful, and while the uninteresting (to me) 'OCC turtle cultural victory' is certainly not the only play for them (they would probably reward my typically moderately tall play with 4-6 cities), it's the most obvious way to exploit them to best effect.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 16 +1
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 11
Japan 1 -2
Korea 26
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 18

Ethiopia - surprised this is getting a few negatives. The Stele alone makes this civ worthwhile because it allows them to dominate religion pretty much unopposed. There are few other civs who can beat them if you make religion a priority.

Japan - Generally poor UU's IMO because of where they appear on the tech tree (even though samurai are good for what they replace). Slightly iffy UA too. I agree with what others have said - it would have been better if they could have made Japan a tall militaristic civ, but i dont honestly think that the game lends itself to such entities.
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 16
France 9
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 9
Japan 1
Korea 27
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 18

Iroquois: I don't really know why people love them so much. Granted, forest bias is good with the UA, and a powerful defence - but compared to the Inca, they feel way less versatile. And I really do not understand what is so great about the long house. I have to work all those forest tiles to get the hammer benfit - okay for puppets, but in my cities, I would prefer the flat +10% prod bonus instead...
But maybe someone can point out what I am missing.

Korea: I like specialists. :)
 
Arabia 22
Aztecs 17
Babylon 25
Byzantium 6
Carthage 24
China 23
England 21
Ethiopia 16
France 10
Greece 24
Inca 26
Iroquois 9
Korea 27
Maya 26
Mongolia 5
Netherlands 23
Ottoman Empire 19
Persia 17
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 18


Knock Japan out - I never seem to get iron working early enough in games since G&K to make samurai a viable option during medieval. Bushido is kind of boring and for whatever reason I never seem to build zeros.

Frane - I've never had a bad game as them, admittedly they aren't the most fun civ in the world to play, that free +2 culture per city doesn't require any creativity or effort to gain, but one still must survive the early game without a UU.
 
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