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Civilization III: Worldwide

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by AnthonyBoscia, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Hey mang, it's a real easy fix to change the max turn times. Just open the scenario with your Civ 3 conquests editor (comes with the game), go to the Scenario tab and select Scenario Properties. Max Turns is in the lower left; change it to whatever you like. This will only work for new games, though, not existing ones. Enjoy!
     
  2. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Battleships can be built by all civs, and require the Arms Race technology as well as the Iron and Oil resources. For several years after the mod's release, I wanted to find a way to make these units, and others as well, more exclusive. After all, with all these great new flavor graphics, we needed a way to showcase them. Civ 3 is limited in limiting unit builds, but there are a few methods we know of to do this.

    Certain units in the general settings have peculiar, hard-coded abilities that could work. The battle-generated unit, by default the Leader, could be any unit we choose. The player is limited to only one such unit at a time, and furthermore only one graphic (with four era alternatives) would be applied for all civs. On the other hand, the starting units, which by default are settlers, workers, and scouts, will actually appear as civ-specific units at the start of the game. This can be seen currently in worldwide, as well as other games, where the default settler and worker begin as civ-flavored versions in the same upgrade path right from the start. As with any chain, though, they must conform to one type (land, sea or air) and only allow a single unit in any case. So this wouldn't really cut it.

    The most obvious solution is to use auto-production. This evens out the number of units available to both the AI and player, and can keep the total amount limited by making the unit impossible to build normally. There are, however, a few setbacks with this method. Player choice is constricted, and you have to accept the amount you are given. In practice, this often ends with irritating auto-production of units you no longer need that clutter up your turns. Second, since each building produces one unit, you can't have civ-specific flavor version without having the unit upgrade after it is generated.

    To upgrade a generic unit to a civ-specific unit without having the unit be a regular build, you need to give it the King flag. This allows the unit to upgrade, but keeps it out of the build queue. This method works well, but it uses the king mechanic which places the unit at the bottom of its stack. While this works well for some units, this isn't ideal for a battleship. First, the entire accompanying fleet would have to be destroyed before you even reached the battleship. Second, the battleship graphic would be utterly hidden during normal turns, defeating the ostensible purpose of having flavor ship graphics in the first place.

    What about drafting? Nope, the unit has to be buildable normally to be drafted.

    Another method for making limited quantity units is the Army flag. Army-flagged units can only be built and upgraded in a city with a wonder that allows their construction. By only having a few such wonders, great or small, you could limit unit builds. The Army flag, however, forces the unit to have no offense or defense, preventing it from being a combat unit. As Zergmaster noted in a previous thread, it also has unintended consequences. I had tested the same idea he created, where Strategic Bombers would be Army-flagged units to limit their build, since they didn't necessarily require an offense or defense value. Indeed in the new worldwide version, they have the Stealth (High Altitude) trait, or more precisely, they have the normal interception chance which has been inverted with the stealth percentage, so as to lower the interception rate for anti-aircraft buildings. But as Zergmaster found, the Army flag allows the unit to pillage without using a movement point, which permits the strategic bomber to obliterate every square in its considerable flight radius each turn.

    But wait, here's another idea. What if we had a coastal structure that allowed the construction of Army-flagged units. The army naval unit would be immobile and not combat-worthy, but tremendously valuable so that the Ai would want to build it. How about transports? The Ai loves transports. The only reason it doesn't build enough in the regular game is because of unit statistics. As El Justo showed in AOI, cheap transports will be built in healthy numbers by the computer, while in many WW2 games we see that transports with high hit points and fighting capabilities are highly prized by the AI. So let's make an Army-flagged, immobile, high hit point transport unit to dupe the AI into building it at its specialized small wonder. But it's all a trick. The transport then upgrades to a king unit with the correct combat stats that the AI would value even more. Yeah, we still have the king unit issues, but at least the unit can be made at a rate desired by the player and not carved in auto-production stone.

    So I incorporated this into one of my test games and boy did it work great. The AI happily built the wonder, then complicitly (which according to spell check is not a word) created the transport, which it then upgraded to the king-flagged battleship. Fantastische, except these knuckleheads could suddenly build the king unit in all of their coastal cities, which they happily did. The experiment was a failure.

    Then Civinator devised a very clever scheme. The auto-producing structure would create the base unit as per usual, but it would then upgrade to civ-specific units requiring resources that became available at intervals throughout the game. The units themselves would require non-era techs given to each civ in the mod biq, and thus be absent from the build menu but still be eligible for upgrades. The same issue came up, however, as it did with the king units. The computer gained the ability to create the restricted units in all its cities, defeating the base purpose of the design.

    So to hell with it, why not forget all this circuitous thinking and just set aside buildings to auto-produce civ-specific units as needed? Even though building slot real estate is at a premium with 256 slots, surely a dozen can be set aside to give flavorful ships to certain civs and a generic one for the rest. But now we have the issue of what tech to make all these buildings available with, or perhaps resources with civ techs, and then when to make all of them obsolete. The tech tree has been cleaned up considerably, and now it's going to be cluttered with ugly red X's while other buildings loom hungrily at those building slots like girls on line for the bathroom at a college party. That's just for battleships, too. We haven't even gotten to the battlecruisers, and SP guns, and monks and crusaders and mercenaries. Suddenly I start thinking that all this convoluted logic is just robbing the game of building slots better employed elsewhere.

    So six years later we have Battleships, which can be built by all civs, and require the Arms Race technology as well as the Iron and Oil resources.

    That was time well spent.
     
    Dumanios and Samez like this.
  3. Lionic

    Lionic Chieftain

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    Someone in another thread asked something like "Why are you modding games?" That last post is one of the reasons.
     
  4. lafao

    lafao Chieftain

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    when you will put the new mod? you told that would be in the beginning of 2017?! thank you...
     
  5. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Who said anything about the beginning of 2017? :)

    It is moving very slowing recently with real world priorities. But it is still on the way, although there is much more to do. A taste then, of things to come.


     
  6. JimmyMcGill

    JimmyMcGill Chieftain

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    Hey I really want to try this mod, but I can't download it from that site. It will go really slow then reaches about 70 mb then fail. Is there a torrent or somewhere else I can download it?
     
  7. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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  8. Takeo

    Takeo Shogun

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    New graphics are looking pretty good! Especially that sub pen!
     
  9. JimmyMcGill

    JimmyMcGill Chieftain

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    Thanks mate, tried out RARR in the meantime which was good but the techtree was overwhelming for me. Keen to try Worldwide now.
     
  10. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Could someone possibly explain to me how to edit a Resource in the Resource Manager? That is, change the actual download/link. Every time I try to edit or update the resource, it allows changes to everything but the actual link, unless I'm grossly stupid and incompetent. Thanks.
     
  11. Bluemofia

    Bluemofia F=ma

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    When you go to the resource in question, in the upper right above the download button, there is a box called "Post Resource Update", and there you can give it a different link.
     
  12. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Thanks, Blue. That's what I thought I did the first time but the link hadn't changed (?). It worked this time.
     
  13. Lionic

    Lionic Chieftain

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    Tony, do you plan to add any more civilizations? Technically there is still space and units for, say, Mesopotamia/Iraq, Austro-Hungary and maybe South America.
     
  14. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    The new civs are:

    Turkestan
    Indochina
    Pakistan
    Andeans
    Canada
    Korea
    Mesopotamia

    In the same style as the original Worldwide and many other mods, the Civilizations are more centered around geographical regions more than a specific ethnic group or time period. So Pakistan for instance will be Indus River valley, Kushans, Mughals, Punjab-Sindh, and of course modern Pakistan as they progress through the game.

    Some civs that were originally going to be included like Brazil have been left out due to the dearth of units. This will be a little more clear when I post info on how unit classes have changed some time in the future.

    Thanks, Takeo. As always, I get the actual models from Google Warehouse and the like, so most of the building creation is about proper sizing, re-texturing, lighting, and that kind of stuff. Some of the buildings were in the 1989 game, but are being re-made with the bright green Firaxis grass so they can stand by graphics from other creators like Ogedei. In the 1989 I wanted that darker grass to more complement Ares terrain and also to match the tone of the scenario.

    The map graphic at the end is not a finished work, but part of how I am trying to change terrain buildings. I will still be using work from Kyriakos, Pounder, and others, but I am shifting how the terrain building graphics will be set up. Improvements will be occupying different parts of the diamond to try to make them a little more easily identifiable and not conflict with the resource graphics which lie in the center. The 'mine' is being replaced by the town improvement, which can be built not only on hills but also forests, jungles, and more. On the other hand, grassland and plains will now be irrigation only, and irrigating from the sea is available from the start. This will tie into the higher food costs for growth (3 food for city size), and so growth will be a little slower and shields slightly lower.

    Workers are going to be more expensive at the start (right now 30 shields), and all AI civs have Workers as a 'Build Often' trait. There is going to be an engineer worker in the industrial era. Settlers are going to upgrade now, with the Tribe at the start for 50 shields and 1 population point, the settler with Cartography in late Era 1 for two pop points and 100 shields, and the colonist in mid era 2 (Renaissance) for 150 shields and 3 population, but also 2 movement and can move through wheeled terrain. Mountains and jungles are going to be wheeled terrain, and no roads allowed on mountains.
     
  15. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Hi Tony, these were exactly the settings for replacing the mine in the next version of my mod and I created new graphics for it and called it "worker camp". I post this here, as testing games showed a significant backside of such a setting. The AI now loved to plant forests and "mine" them. In fact workers mostly did nothing other than to plant forests, mine them and build some roads. In later games there were whole continents nearly only filled with mined forests. The AI cities frequently didn´t grow in the way they should, if they hadn´t some grassland tiles around them where the AI was blocked to plant forests. And there was another backside of the AI´s love of planting and mining forests with these settings: In my mod many units are slowed down when moving through forests. Now, if nearly every tile of a map holds forests, the late game is considerably slowed down and late game invasions become somewhat annoying. So I set back these settings to the settings of the older versions of my mod.

    You should have a close look how the AI performs with planting and mining forests in your mod, especially when additionally slowing down city growth the RAR-way.
     
  16. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Civinator, thank you for posting this and sharing your research as it helps save many hours of testing such concepts. Perhaps it would be possible to take away the misbehaving AI's toy by not allowing it to plant forests, which as of now is a Worker Action available with the medieval Agriculture tech. Or the idea may be abandoned entirely.

    In the late game, reconnaissance units will ignore the terrain cost of forests (and hills), based on your cavalry units in SOE. This setting was satisfactory in the 1989 scenario.
     
  17. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    The question is, why those settings seem to work in RAR (and RARR).

    Both mods have additional bonus resources to boost the production of food. Especially important are the food-bonus resources for plain terrain (where the AI has a tendency to plant forests). In the later game in plains there appear bonus resources with up to 5 additional food, that will stay even when forests are planted. In my eyes this made the game somewhat a gamble for human players as you mostly don´t know where such mighty food resources will later appear when the city is founded. On the other side the forest planting AI knows the location of those resources when founding cities while human players will perform irrigation instead of planting forests when this is needed for city growth. After some considerations I didn´t want to have this kind of "balance" in my mod and it also didn´t look well, when most of the map is filled with worker camps (or suburbs).
     
  18. JimmyMcGill

    JimmyMcGill Chieftain

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    Hey Anthony, just had a 28hr ! game with your mod. There's a bug on the Les Invalides civlopedia page with the Imperial Guard leading to an invalid entry. Also, don't think the AI uses partisans as I captured two cities that had 2-4 flags for me to upgrade when they could have been used to defend the city. Really enjoyed it though, beautiful feel with the gradual eras and plenty of great units. Small nitpick with some unit size variation but not a big deal.

    Played on a small Pangaea with max number of civs, I won domination on Regent difficulty by 1800 when I got tanks, so might try bumping the difficulty up next time. Chinese may be OP with the early wonder that generates armies. Good to see a few armies being used by the AI at the end of the game, but they could maybe use them more. Also AI forts and cannons don't appear to bombard my stacks when I'm nearby.
     
  19. BillGatesBoss

    BillGatesBoss Chieftain

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    2017 april, seven months to left
     
  20. AnthonyBoscia

    AnthonyBoscia Chieftain

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    Hey Jimmy. The computer does not always upgrade the units that are auto-produced. Sometimes this may be due to lack of resources or errors in the mod, but it is a common problem. Advanced auto-production that upgrades to civ-specific units is mostly being removed in the new version. Unit size variations are due to units being made by different people over the years and would not be easily corrected. Forts won't bombard because they are set with the offensive AI strategy, which allows them to be deployed (paradropped) outside the city.

    Thanks for playing and I'm glad you enjoyed.
     

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