Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by AnthonyBoscia, Nov 9, 2010.
Cool! Btw, how do you make faded images like that?
There's a pure white layer underneath, and then the layer of the image above it. Then you adjust the transparency of the image and flatten the whole thing when done. It's a much better method than what was used in the first Worldwide, where the contrast or brightness was adjusted and it became washed out and terrible.
There's a lot more graphics work to do as you can see in the picture. Currently I'm alternating between buildings (actual settings in the biq, civilopedia entries, and wonder splashes), interface graphics, and music. There is a monstrous ton of unit work still to do, but I wanted to get most of the structural design done first. Work on the game pretty much completely halted from May to September, but it looks like there will be time these upcoming months.
Anthony, I have to tell you man, I have been lurking this forums on and off for the past 10 or so years, I've been playing civilization since the 90's when I used to secretly use my brother's 3 1/2 diskettes to install it in DOS and listen to that glorious tururú tururú 16 bit sound of the original game in my 16 color screen. And I thoroughly prefer playing CIV 5 but recently my main PC has died and I resorted to my overheating laptop which can only handle up to CIV 3 finding a lot of the game features lacking as you might imagine compared to 5.
I knew of the efforts put on this page by commendable users like yourself that dedicate personal time and effort into creating this mods or maps, so I decided to hunt for a mod that would add flavor to the game, I came across CCM and didn't quite like some of the changes, and kept looking and found this glorious creation of yours.
As I have never fiddled with the map editor tool, I started searching this thread for it and page after page of looking I found a TET version for 2.5 created by someone who also enjoyed your mod. But then I kept on reading and seeing how you kept active answering all queries and still working after what, 8 years? on your mod, even if you are still far from finishing it it is a commendable endeavor on your part.
So I went ahead and decided to stop lurking to just post this and let you know how much better you made the game for players like me.
I honestly can't bring myself to criticize anything about the mod (v 2.9) as all the complicated things it enthralls are just an easy learning curve away for anyone to enjoy a much more complete version of the original game.
So I just wanted to say thank you so much for all time you put into it, and for creating something so good, you actually did something that gave me the will to create an account and tell you.
I can't wait for the 3.0 version that seems from what you say will take the mod to a whole new level, and for a specific earth map created by you that I'm sure will be grand.
Regards from an old school player.
GnRNoD, thank you very much for posting and I'm glad you have enjoyed the game. I started playing Civ 1 in high school when I had to play at my friends' houses since we didn't have a PC. At some point I should post an essay here on my experiences with the different civ games and how they influenced the design of this mod. There were many things I liked about Civ 5, both in terms of gameplay and the attention to improvements in graphics and sound. I know some people don't want the strategy elements to suffer because of a focus on bells and whistles, but I think it's possible to do both. I like 'em smart and pretty. But eventually I come back to this game because of its accessibility and possibilities, which in some ways still aren't matched.
I worked on this game from Jan to Nov 2010, having never played any Civ 3 mods before. I actually found CFC because I re-installed the game and was looking for the conquests patch. Then I saw the downloads database and things spiraled out of control rapidly. After finishing, I played CCM 1 and some other mods, and they definitely had an influence on version two which came out in March 2011. Around that time was when I developed an unholy obsession interest in creating a late cold war game which turned into something of a crusade. Also during that time I was making and re-making a WW2 scenario that evolved from Moff jerjerrod's mod of the classic WW2 Global scenario. This was basically my fun project that served as a testbed for lots of ideas that I could mess around with without having to polish all the graphics and text for an audience. So with these games and other great mods and scenarios that I tried over the years I was able to come back to Worldwide with a much better understanding of how the game works. So while I appreciate that you don't have major criticisms of the current version of the game, I have plenty. When I look at the biq as it stands now I feel much like David Lynch...
Link to video.
So since we're all here, let's go over some of the changes that no one is ever going to see until 2020 or whenever the hell this gets finished. First off is the tech tree, of which I previewed Era 1 on the previous page. There are fewer techs overall, and in the case of Era 1 it has dropped from 27 to 22. The tech tree is like the tempo of a song in this game, as it controls the flow of what you are doing and when you do it. Storm Over Europe is a dramatic example of this as each tech takes exactly one turn and thus rigidly keeps the game on a tight schedule, which allows the closest thing we have to scripting. Not only are techs being designed to be more competitive with one another, but they also unlock buildings and units in such a way that the player will have a nice healthy list of options. From my perspective, I'm looking for a sweet spot between current Worldwide (it's era 3, I built everything and can we hurry up with the next tech please) and something like Civ 4 (oh, there's 500 buildings I don't have time to make). So the new version has fewer wonders that put X building in every city, and a greater number of improvements spread over the course of the game. The tech tree will also feature little icons for special events (stolen straight from CCM, though probably some new graphics to come here). The technologies are also being spaced to try to give you just enough time to enjoy units before they go obsolete.
Speaking of units, they are getting a lot of changes since they are such a major focus of this mod. First off they are being simplified. Machine Gunners and Swordsmen are going out the window. From Era 1 to about halfway through Era 3, there's going to be a basic troika of infantry (good all around, amphibious), bombarding units (archers through cannon), and cavalry. Some cavalry will be able to bombard as well. All the units stats have been developed with the combat calculator to get the right percentages that I'm looking for. In addition, units in eras 1 and 2 have only two hit points (three with barracks), thereby increasing the value of bombarding and defense while negating the bonus of the barracks healing. From the fusilier (late era 2) through WW2, units will have four hit points at veteran, while modern units will have five hit points. The increase in unit values will proportionally change over the game so that a single tech advance will be a major advantage.
With the introduction of tanks and aircraft, things will get more complex, but they won't be outrageous the way they are now where you can build blitzing artillery that slaughters everything in sight. Artillery will be limited to auto-produced siege engines in ancient and medieval times, and then upgrade to buildable cannons. Right now cannons will be dual purpose, with bombarding for humans and stealth attack for the AI (and for you if you like). The exact numbers still need a lot of testing. Later, they will be supplemented by auto-produced long range artillery. In the WW3 game tears of joy and terror streamed down my face as I watched the AI rockets bombard everything in sight and even escort them across Europe because they finally got some range to do so. So this feature had to be added in some way.
Both the regular improvements and the attributes have been recalibrated to be both more expensive and more rewarding. Here's where I really wish we could have all the amazing options of Civ 5 buildings, as you can only create so many +50% tax bonuses before you want to hit the ESC button. There will still be civ-specific buildings, as well as religion-specific buildings and now Civ trait buildings. Did I mention civ traits are getting overhauled, too? Some of the buildings are going to take advantage of Civ 3's resources as well. For example, a city with coal in its radius can build a colliery. If the city has access to iron, it can build a steel mill by having a colliery in the city as well as iron connected to the trade network. This is to mirror the fact that it was cheaper to transport the iron to a coal town than vice versa. With two steel mills anywhere nationwide, you can then build a Steel Corporation. Some of the buildings and wonders will require certain attributes as well, and several have been added to the modern era to make it more interesting.
Plenty more to come...I'll try to post some more soon. Hopefully some graphics as well.
GnRNoD, welcome at CFC and it is great, that you created an account to say thank you for this wonderful mod that Worldwide really is.
When Tony in the post above posted about taking some elements from CCM, I think it must be added, that CCM also took some elements from Worldwide, too , especially graphics, among them the very nice Worldwide city screen interface. Tony thank you very much for sharing them and good luck for the next version of your epic mod. I think we can never have enough high quality mods for Civ 3.
Yes, and now that the screen has become the official CCM city interface, Worldwide will have to get a new one as well. The high quality of CCM2 also provides more competitive motivation...not to try to make a mod that is 'better', but to make the best possible version of the mod since the bar has been set higher.
Civinator, I hope you don't take me wrong, when I said I didn't like some of the changes, I meant that, I understand that creating a mod is a huge amount of work, and one has all the right to create it to one's likings, the mod looks great and it has some elements I wish would be included in worldwide, but in the overall, I prefer the more close to the original sensation of worldwide.
Also as an addict to creating a superb defense, I love placing fortifications and having coastal batteries (which I must add, I know sucks for them to be units, but a magnificent way of working around the engine capabilities). I have to see what CCM2 has to offer as I only saw the original, so I will check it out. And thank you, sorry if I act like I know you guys a little it's because I've lurked here for a while.
Anthony, well positive criticisms can help, but I honestly don't know what I could offer outside of preferences that I don't know if they would fit inside the combat calculator.
I have to say I don't mind having extra technologies, but perhaps a few of them do seem unnecessary. I would arrange it in a way that there's 3 types of technologies:
Regular (the usual techs that are game changers and needed to continue up the tech tree)
Secondary (techs that add little boosts but aren't mandatory)
and Civ specific, I love the whole idea of civ specific stuff, and I'm glad to hear you're going to expand on that. I would like to see more civ specific techs and buildings.
I thought that many of the civ specific techs (I played italians and americans so far) come a little late and what they offer is (by the time you get them ) of little use, IMHO civ specific stuff should give a little advantage (to compete with the enemies own advantage or to rampage thru them if they haven't reached it yet) but not little in a way that it last little, but more of a legions vs medieval infantry kinda way (if I am making any sense).
Also Jungles and marshes should be able to be taken out before sanitation as it comes so far up the tech tree, it makes some tactical locations unusable by the player but you know how the AI loves to expand on ever inch of ground they can find.
And I have a few questions/doubts if you don't mind.
I have been able to build only a few great wonders, as it seems on purpose that when I'm 1-3 turns away to finish any of them suddenly the AI beats me to the punch, I have had this happen to me a few times in vanilla but never so often, I barely been able to build 5 of them, while at least 10 times during one gameplay I got beaten by the AI to them just when I was about to finish, even one time having been half-way thru one after trading the correspondent tech to the AI that managed to build it before me somehow.
While a nice little new thing the luxury boxes seem a bit unnecessary or at least a bit flat overall as 25 gold is either not enough to help or really not needed, do you plan to expand on that?
One of the things I liked most about Civ5 was the City-states, I remember reading (down the line on this post) that you were planning on implementing something like that, or had been asked to at least, do you plan to do something of the sorts?
A few of the things I liked about Civ4 was vasselage and mass culture/conquest take over, is there any way to add that to civ3?
A thing I loved and couldn't get enough off in Civ5 was the possibility of asking the AI not to settle any cities near yours, if that could be added to 3 it would be a game changer, as I sometimes have to build a wall of units just to prevent the AI from walking into unspoken turf to build a mindless city that won't grow past 3 population, and not start a war.
I don't know if I didn't grasp the religion aspect of the game or if it only involves buildings and monks but does religion do anything here, like in civ4 or 5? I personally liked how civ5 handled it, civ4 was lacking and civ6 went overboard with it.
It would be nice to hear your story revolving around the civ games, as myself, I went from civ to civ3 to civ 5, jumping thru 2 and 4 and only playing them later to see what they had to offer, I saw a lot of people preferring civ2 over 3 but I never understood why, I think it was mostly nostalgia. I still play some Civ1 now and then, I love that game and how complete it feels even after over 20 years. Also play some colonization, I didn't quite like the take on civ4 of it, but I have to admit it is much nicer and cleaner, tho they turned the indians into scenery.
But anyway I digress, that's why I didn't want to add my opinion I go off the branches, thank you for your very much quick response and your plans update.
I'm gonna blow your post up so I can answer some of your points.
A big part of this update is going to be simplification. I know this is the opposite direction of what a lot of people like, but I think the game is improved by only keeping what is necessary. There will be some fun stuff and player-only things, especially in the late game, but a big part of this update is making the AI more competitive and that has to happen in Eras 1 and 2.
One area that differs a game like CCM2 from Worldwide is how units are often more specific in form in the former. For example, Civinator has used many of the great ship and vehicle models built over the years, and then implanted them in generations with terrific civilopedia entries. So you may see different eras of battlecruisers or types of tanks. In worldwide there will literally be a tank unit representing armor units from 1930-1960something. The graphics used will usually reflect well-known or often used tanks and ships, but there is no delineation between generations of tanks and such. For a macro-era game, I didn't want to get into that kind of detail, and thus wanted to stay closer to what we have in normal civ. So there are ultimately three types of tanks: Tanks (30s to early cold war, which change with era 4), main battle tanks (60s and 70s), and modern armor (80s and beyond). There will be some civ-specific 21st century stuff, too.
Just to be clear, there isn't going to be tons of civ-specific content. The building limit is real, and I didn't want to go overboard with making civs radically different like you might see in a sci-fi or fantasy mod. Again, trying to keep it close to original Civ 3. Civs that bloom late will benefit from more specialized units and more powerful buildings. Not all civs can be created equal and the usual suspects are going to get more love in terms of special buildings and units than some other guys. The world is cruel like that.
Right now jungles and mountains are verboten to workers and are going to be major natural barriers. This changes in the industrial age when engineers come about and will be able to move on these terrains. Although I think they still can't have roads. I can't remember. This is all in progress, by the way. But the goal is to have something of a second exploration age in mid-era 3, and to break up the railroad network to cut down on instant movement a little.
I'm using a trick that I know other guys like Ares have mentioned. The wonders now require 3 basic buildings before they can be constructed. This helps prevent the AI from trying to make wonders so early and forces them to develop a little. It also helps the player if he wants to focus on making a wonder and beating the competition. On the flip side, wonders now pack a big defensive bonus so if the plan was to let the AI build a wonder and then you steal it, you're in for a nasty shock.
The luxuries boxes are going away. I thought they were a neat idea and then tedious in execution. Something else might take their place, though.
In the world map game. Can't do it on a random map.
The new game will feature something that is found in MEM and some other mods. There is no more 'Forbidden Palace' or whatever it was called. Regional capital or something. Now, you are able to build a palace in your capital city, which will not be destroyed when occupied. Any time you capture an enemy capital, his palace will remain, and you can build a small wonder depending on your government that requires the palace as a prerequisite. For example, vassals for Autocracies and Protectorates for Consitutional Monarchies. These vassal wonders reduce corruption like a forbidden palace and have other bonuses, too.
One thing I always wanted was the ability to set the space between cities higher. In CCM2 the distance was reduced to 0 in order to allow canals to be built. I really wanted to have a 3 or 4 space limit to help combat ICS, but don't have that ability. Adding things like the warning from Civ 5 are totally out of the realm of possibility in Civ 3 modding.
Religion won't change much from Worldwide like it is now. Improvements and wonders for each of the religious groups, and some specialties like Feudalism government for Western Christendom and the Peasant (worker with combat stats) for Orthodoxy. Some guys like Ethiopia and India might get two religions!
Yeah, this will take some time to flesh out.
I've said before, I like detailed posts. I don't know what anyone here is thinking until they tell me. I like to do things my way but love good input. There might be things I want to jettison that I'll leave in if people show interest in them.
Tony, I considered the same for CCM2, as it is a really cool feature - but when playing with 31 civs you need 31 of the precious building slots for GWs and additional slots for the benefit buildings or one normal building without culture and the palace as a perequisite plus the NO-Raze-Patch plus the buildings for the additional benefits and as I didn´t want to use so many building slots or playing with the NO-Raze-Patch I didn´t implement it.
To cut down the unlimited railmovement in random maps would be a major modding achievement in Civ 3 and at present I have no clue, how you will manage this to do without hacking the biq.
The main reason for using the Antal-Patch are the corrections of the graphical glitches in the C3C civilopedia, that are available with that patch and the fix of the scientific golden age. Reducing the distance between cities to zero has its pro and contras and was not the reason for me to use the Antal patch.
Ja, originally I was going to have government-specific improvements as prerequisites for the forbidden palace wonders. These would work like the Legislature in current Worldwide: ie. they produce culture and require a government type, so that civs that conquer the city and have the same government type keep the small wonder. But of course such a method would require two buildings for each government. So instead the new Royal Palace improvement functions as a hospital (allow size three) and therefore won't be destroyed when occupied by enemy civs. I think there are three different Forbidden Palace small wonders, so in all only about 4 building slots are used up.
Right now the breakdown of buildings in the new worldwide game are:
62 improvements (including capital building and wealth)
36 great wonders
38 national wonders
10 spaceship components
31 civ-specific wonders
31 civ-specific secondary builings
The remaining slots are my fun picks for things like auto-producing Jagdpanzers and IS tanks.
No, I'm just setting the terraform commerce bonus to zero to prevent roads on mountains. I haven't decided on jungles yet, because to do so would necessitate the removal of all strategic resources from jungles. As of now, jungles and mountains are impassible to wheeled and workers from eras 1-3 are flagged as wheeled. Maybe marshes, too. But I do want more natural barriers to break up the landscape. On the other hand, mountains and jungles have some nice bonus resources so it is possible to have cities nearby with decent growth.
Yes, this was excellent work by Antal. Too bad we can't just set the minimum distance between cities in the biq.
The problem here is, that a city must be in city size two, to be able to construct such a building allowing city size 3. So for early conquests of the capital of a civ it can happen, that such a building was not built yet by the civ before extermination of that civ. On the other side, city size 1 in the editor can be set in the general settings of the editor to a maximum of zero population, meaning cities are starting in city size two.
The MEM setting for additional "second palaces" needs a certain number of cities, so it cannot be realized too soon, but the real cool setting would be to receive a special title (and some benefits) for every civ you have conquered.
That won't be much of an issue since the buildings are not available in the early game. The Royal Palace comes with the Kingship tech, which is much like Monarchy in that it is a mid to late Era 1 tech. The first of the Forbidden Palace wonders doesn't come until early Era2 with the medieval tech Autocracy. So it can be considered that early conquests destroy these civs before they are developed enough. In addition, the Capital (which is the new name for the regular Civ 3 Palace) provides a healthy defensive bonus. Combined with the AI's propensity to heavily garrison their capitals, it should be tougher to take an enemy's capital city. As for starting cities in size 2, I do have a couple aqueduct type improvements so I don't want to lose that option. Also it would lose out on city walls and the trading post.
Going along with the heavily defended capitals, assimilation is now at 0% for all the early governments until about the 18th century. So dealing with unhappy native populations will be more of a concern now, especially if you can't wipe out all of their cities and magically turn them into your nationality. Also, the allowed number of units will generally be a flat number instead of being dependent on city size, to help level the playing field for smaller civs.
Guys, firstly let me tell you this is a remarkable job you've been doing. The mod's really amazing.
I played it like, 2 or 3 years ago but... Right now I'm not actually making it work.
Tried the normal installation - placing it on conquests/conquests folder - as i have the complete edition. Am I doing it wrong? I got the error message on the screenshot...
Hope you guys can help, I would really appreciate to get back to game
Shouldn't Worldwide be installed in .../Conquests/Scenarios/, just like any other (epic) mod? That's where I have it on my machine...
The .../Conquests/Conquests/ folder is intended primarily/only for the Firaxis Conquests (Mesopotamia, Rise of Rome, Fall of Rome, etc.)
Just a reminder, Dutch Swordsman has wrong civliopedia description which described it as Swiss Guard.
Thanks, zwei. The civilopedia is getting revamped as well.
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