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Civilization is racist

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by h0ncho, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. h0ncho

    h0ncho Chieftain

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    http://experiencepoints.blogspot.com/2010/12/critical-eyes-on-civilization.html

    See kids, this is why you should stay off the drugs postmodernism.
     
  2. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    He might have a point if Civilization V were not a game.
    'Games...should not be played lightly'. That pretty much sums up what is wrong with this critique. You're not meant to overthink it; it's just meant to be a bit of fun. It isn't a social commentary.

    I'd be curious to see how this guy thinks the game should be designed.
     
  3. beestar

    beestar subdeity

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    Moderator Action: *snip*

    Actually, that was rather amusing essay, and in many ways an accurate criticism, while simultaneously being completely irrelevant.
     
  4. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    The great thing about blogs is that every idiot can have one....obviously.
     
  5. esemjay

    esemjay Prince

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    You know, this post is right. When the DLL comes out, I'm going to do a mod. I'm going to remove all Leader and Civilization traits from the game- so that nobody gets offended by stereotypes. I'm also going to remove all of the unique units from the game, so that nobody thinks that I'm trying to say that I believe any one country was better than another at any specific time. I'm also going to remove the ability to control anything, so that nobody can make the game offensive by playing to oppress another country or by winning and making any one country superior to the others in any way.

    I will then call this game "The History Channel."

    --

    Seriously, this is as bad as when people said that Call of Duty and Medal of Honor were offensive because when you play the multiplayer- sometimes you get put on the Insurgent side. Because people are using the games to train to kill American Soldiers, right?

    If you can't even handle playing the Civilization series without getting offended, maybe you should:

    1. Return the game
    2. Destroy your computer
    3. Move into a cave
     
  6. JohnnyW

    JohnnyW Gave up on this game

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    Um....okay.
     
  7. Eskel

    Eskel Warlord

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    Yep, Civilization is racist, cynical, pragmatist and immoral.
    Much to the same extent as any other strategic, especially multiplayer online strategic game.
    It is quite obvious - the main goal in game is zero-sum victory, while defeat doesnt' cost player anything. In each subsequent games AI has also no knowledge of past human player behaviours, so there isn't any form of penalty for breaking agreements of any form. Thus almost everybody use genocide, backstab and exert control upon weakest to achieve their goals.
    In real world the main goal isn't victory but survival. Defeat in most cases costs much more than you can gain through victory, what is the main reason for all moral and altruistic behaviours - they are simply optimal in terms of non-zero sum game theory.
    Sad part of this is that any experience might influence player's point of view, so yes - author is right saying that games shouldn't be taken TOO ligthly.
     
  8. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Finally, someone who finds hex tiles as racially and historically offensive as I do!!! :lol:
    I wonder what shapes wouldn't offend the author? Circles? Maybe if we were all on the same tile holding hands...

    Ok, we've seen the arts students rant. Now I want to see a rant blog from the physics student who complains about CiV going for "3D graphics" when really they should have been aiming for an 8th dimensional gameplay projected onto a 6D plane, or something like that.
     
  9. beestar

    beestar subdeity

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    Aw, you ruined my lovely 'Mort de l'Auteur' reference.

    (For the record I don't wish for the physical death of any actual authors ...)
     
  10. GKling

    GKling Chieftain

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    And what about chess? Why does it always have to be black against white? Racist!:D
     
  11. code9

    code9 Warlord

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    This sort of criticism attempts to give Civ5 some credibility, and every brand needs that. However, this article fails even at that.

    It would be relevant if Civ5 was a simulation used somewhere in the school system, or maybe not even then.
     
  12. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Fable 3 is totally rasist too. You literally get whiter as you become morally good.

    Oddly enough, you also become pale if you're morally bad, you just look diseased instead of carved from marble.

    (I hated this feature.)
     
  13. flyingbunnys

    flyingbunnys Warlord

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    "The UN in Civilization V is a mockery of the actual international body." Thats funny, I think the actual international body does a good enough job of mocking its self. The UN in real life is no different than the UN in the game, the only difference is the UN in the game is useful.

    I think the author also misses the fact that its a game and the point of a game is to win.
     
  14. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    Yes indeed...hex tiles are just a cruel method to impose authoritarian control.
     
  15. esemjay

    esemjay Prince

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    Not to mention that Barbarians can't spawn there! It's so cruel, how you are often encouraged to go out and eradicate the barbarians before they can make peace with you!

    This game would suck HARD if the author of that article made it. There would be no military, no government, and all you would have is control of 1 unit that... I don't know... smoked weed or something.
     
  16. D_Toccs

    D_Toccs Chieftain

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    Wow that's just . . . wow!

    Civ, AoE, Rise of Nations and any other game that gives you control over a real world civ is bound to bring out all sorts of inappropriate and possibly racist remarks.
    I am not a racists neither are my friends, yet when we sit down to a lan game of civ 4, lines like, "well nothing can go wrong with a German in charge of the UN" or "The mighty Christian people are preparing to crush the filthy Hindus" fly around like wildfire. Those comments do not equate to real world beliefs, they just show people having fun playing a game.

    As a history buff I understand that a civilization's development is not linear. As a gamer though I understand that to accurately represent the progression of a society or culture can not be done unless you are making a highly detailed simulation, which Civ is not and has never claimed to be.

    The individual points you bring up are not in themselves wrong, however your conclusion that the game is racist certainly is.
     
  17. h0ncho

    h0ncho Chieftain

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    Hehe yeah that was my favourite as well.

    All in all his main problem is that he doesn't really understand what a computer is or what is capable of. He probably thinks that a computer works something akin to magic, and the magicians only have to put more organic and friendly magic into it to make it work better. But the fact is that a computer cannot really do anything that cannot be expressed mathematically, so of course things will have to be calculable, controllable and so on.
     
  18. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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  19. skallben

    skallben Diplomat

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    On the racist implication; we could just as well say the same about western leaders past classical era. If european culture can be interpreted as only warlike and imperialist then it is the same stereotypes. Euro-centrism and racism should not be mixed up when talking about contemporary society

    I am of the opinion that we should allways question our views of the world. Be that my own limited knowledge of Oda Nobunaga or be that what values are projected on me via cinema, massmedia, games etc. If people do think that (post)modern society has some kind of interest in serving you information as objective as possible, then you are up for a surprise. For that information that is not heavily influenced by contemporary values is rare, in worst cases information are presented to you with an agenda, be that the political profile of the newspaper or viral marketing etc.

    As for critique of modern civilization, it can often end up zelaous, ending up defeating it's own purpose. CiV could possibly have done better representing historiy and it clearly offers a linear path throughout history. That does not mean you have to reevaluate your perception of history and revert back to hegelian romantics. CiV is a simulation of our past documented history and if a player does not understand that people in a autocracy suffer, maybe they should read the pedia or just don't make historical assumptions from a computer game.

    CiV is not the best subject for pointing out entertainment as a bearer of cultural values IMO. I think that the biggest issue of all is simply that many individuals have never learned to view the abundance of information presented to us today with a critical eye.
     
  20. jtb1127

    jtb1127 Deity

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    I'm just glad that someone else as finally came to the realization that civilization is no more than a strict control method that has been imposed to supply stereotypes towards poor Indian minorities. It is true that computer games are no more than simple and easy ways to coerce various ethnic groups into living on fractions of land shaped like hexagons where they can be abused.
     

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