Civilization IV - the fall of Civilization series

[Quentin]

Actually it would be more like this:

- the tech-tree is not more elaborate than in CIV3
- even the greatest map is no bigger than in CIV3
- the max game limit is some figure higher than CIV3's limit

Also, how are you coming to the conclusion that the tech-tree is not more elaborate than in Civ3? By number of techs or the apparent size? The tech-trees seem quite different and hard to compare no?

 

[eddie_verdde]

not only by number of techs, but also by limited number of possible paths, see the tech-tree of RnR in the first page of this thread and you'll see what I mean.

and with such a small tech-tree I doubt that even an epic game will last more than 400 or 500 turns in a medium-high difficulty level

 

[sela1s1son]

The game may be shorter in terms of number of turns, and maps may be slightly smaller. While the latter part concerned me, I was soon put not only at ease, but I became excited.

Between cities having upkeep costs, civics, and other factors the expansion boom and trying to acquire every square of territory is no longer needed amd in fact a bad thing. With expansion being slower, it actually will feel like the growth of a civilization rather then the spread of a virus. I will see my Civilization grow, with a paced building of new cities, and I'll get to see towns and vilalges grow between them. I will see idealogies flow across my land, and I may block them or welcome them... just like a wave may flow across a smooth peach or crash against rocky cliffs.

I like being able to cut off expansion into, say a penninsula, by building a city (or cities) at the entrance. I love how growth will seem more natural biological feel, as opposed to a kid flicking a map with the appropriate color paint(s).

I think Civ IV will be a WONDERFUL step forward, and I have already pre-ordered Snapple Ice Tea (tons of caffeine), and Penguin Caffeinated Mints.

So HA!

 

[sealman]

I doubt it's a first, especially among more recreational players. I personally am not scared of it. I don't particularily like it, it's not exactly pretty is it? Beginners, who don't know what most techs do anyway, just aren't going to get it.

I agree with Markus.

More does not always equal better.

 

[joethreeblah]

not only by number of techs, but also by limited number of possible paths, see the tech-tree of RnR in the first page of this thread and you'll see what I mean.

and with such a small tech-tree I doubt that even an epic game will last more than 400 or 500 turns in a medium-high difficulty level

The new tech tree has ONE more tech than the old one, and the epic game is longer than the old epic game

 

[eddie_verdde]

I agree with Markus.

More does not always equal better.

in this case I think it does...if you have MORE technologies to choose from you can adapt more easily and fastly to the conditions you are in and then you won't have to restart the game over and over again because you don't like your starting location...

MORE technologies implies MORE strategies and MORE possible paths, causing each civ to follow a specific strategy according to its geographical,political and economical circumstances, and this will will create a great diversity among civs, which i think turns the game much more interesting.

 

[eddie_verdde]

The new tech tree has ONE more tech than the old one, and the epic game is longer than the old epic game

one more tech?? wow, i'm already cursing myself for not having pre-ordered the game.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Did you know that the main guy (sorry can't remember his name) who made the Rise and Rule Mod, was hired as a Consultant on Civ4? So I wouldnt give up so soon. And for me personally the game should be more about game play and less about history! Civ. has always been about rewriting history not duplicating it, thats what makes it fun!

 

[eddie_verdde]

Civ. has always been about rewriting history[/U] not duplicating it, thats what makes it fun!

if it's about rewriting history why does leader louis XIV has the same characteristics as in real history, etc? Why is there a Leonardo Workshop and not a Madonna Workshop?

CIV should be about rewriting history provided that the game replicated the "rules" and patterns that drove the evolution of civilizations...and to know that patterns one needs to know a little bit of history, so don't just discard history just because you hated it at school.

 

[NDCSPURS]

Too many techs give me a headache

 

[Phoenix_56721]

if it's about rewriting history why does leader louis XIV has the same characteristics as in real history, etc? Why is there a Leonardo Workshop and not a Madonna Workshop?

CIV should be about rewriting history provided that the game replicated the "rules" and patterns that drove the evolution of civilizations...and to know that patterns one needs to know a little bit of history, so don't just discard history just because you hated it at school.

History was my favorite Subject in school and watch history channel all the time doesnt mean I what to play a game strictly based on it! Civ uses history as foundation for the gameplay, but after that its not realisic at all!!.....Spaceship to Alpha Centuria?

 

[hclass]

The game may be shorter in terms of number of turns, and maps may be slightly smaller...

Between cities having upkeep costs, civics, and other factors the expansion boom and trying to acquire every square of territory is no longer needed amd in fact a bad thing. With expansion being slower...

I like being able to cut off expansion into, say a penninsula, by building a city (or cities) at the entrance...

So HA!

I will agree with all you have stated if the game is "Sid Meier's the cutty Tribe IV"
So, Ha!

 

[Masquerouge]

one more tech?? wow, i'm already cursing myself for not having pre-ordered the game.

Well, that's two of your arguments that are now broken. Out of 3.

There are more techs in Civ4 than ic Civ3, and the epic game has more turn in Civ4 than in Civ3.
SO your only complaint remaining is the size of the map, but as you said yourself, since it's more a combining of the 3 than annoyed you, there's not much left for you to be annoyed, is it ?

But my main point is this : why don't you give the benefit of the doubt to Firaxis, given that so far they have made excellent games, that everybody who has tried it loved it, and that you yourself have not played it ?

 

[eddie_verdde]

@ Phoenix_56721

I'm not claiming for realism in the sense that the game should replicate the human history but rather in the sense that the game should replicate the "natural rules" that drove the evolution of civilizations.

For instance I don't expect the egyptian civ to start in a flood plain as in real history, but I would like to see civs developing according to the conditions they were raised on, and a complex tech-tree would enable this, because you would choose the techs that would allow you to take advantage of yur starting location, available resources etc, creating multiple paths from which you could choose from and creating diversity during the game.

@ NDCSPURS

why would too many techs give you an headache? it's not like you would have to research them all. Instead of that you should be able to analyse carefully the multiple options and choose the one that best suited your civ....unless you have a problem with analysing, planning and deciding...in that case your headache would be perfectly normal...

 

[eddie_verdde]

Well, that's two of your arguments that are now broken. Out of 3.

There are more techs in Civ4 than ic Civ3, and the epic game has more turn in Civ4 than in Civ3.
SO your only complaint remaining is the size of the map, but as you said yourself, since it's more a combining of the 3 than annoyed you, there's not much left for you to be annoyed, is it ?

Either you are joking with me or you haven't understand any of my posts...do you find significantly different ONE more technology? If you do, you should review your maths...

In addition (I mentioned this before), if in CIV3 most players finish the game in less than 300 or 400 turns (medium-high levels of difficulty) how can a game of CIV4, with only one more tech last more than those 300-400 turns?? With such a small tech-tree, it doesn't matter if you are playing normal or epic mode. The game will most likely end much before the time-limit.

 

[Thunderradar]

I think alot of complaints that are going on around here lately most of the them will most likely be changeable with the customizing options we are going to have. I know lots of people will say "I'm not a programmer" or "Why can't I have it right out of the box?" but I think once the game is out and people get to customizing this will be an awesome game. There is a great modding community here and in the end I think will work out just fine.

 

[Jaybe]

eddie_v, Rise & Rule is impressive, but it handicaps the AI with all the rule and tech additions (compensated by giving AI large artificial advantages).

A Rise & Rule mod for civ4 ought to be more impressive still. Civ4 itself will be a different kind of game, hopefully still with options of humongous maps and extended (and pre-tested!) number of turns in the Epic game.

The sky is NOT falling (yet)!

 

[Phoenix_56721]

@ Phoenix_56721

I'm not claiming for realism in the sense that the game should replicate the human history but rather in the sense that the game should replicate the "natural rules" that drove the evolution of civilizations.

For instance I don't expect the egyptian civ to start in a flood plain as in real history, but I would like to see civs developing according to the conditions they were raised on, and a complex tech-tree would enable this, because you would choose the techs that would allow you to take advantage of yur starting location, available resources etc, creating multiple paths from which you could choose from and creating diversity during the game.

I think that the moddiblity of Civ4 is going to be one of the best features of the game, they claim you can change just about anything you want, there are three different levels of moddiblity some are easy to do, and some you will need to be able to write in python, if you dont know how to there are many on this forum that do! So you will see mods that will come out that are more to your tastes, if not just do it yourself either way its going to be a great game!!!

 

[eddie_verdde]

eddie_v, Rise & Rule is impressive, but it handicaps the AI with all the rule and tech additions (compensated by giving AI large artificial advantages).

Yes, I'm aware of some of the limitations of RnR. But I still love that mod specially because of the tech-tree diversity.

Anyway, do you think the new modding options available in CIV4 will prevent handicaps similar to those in RnR?

 

[joethreeblah]

Anyway, do you think the new modding options available in CIV4 will prevent handicaps similar to those in RnR?

Your confused thought process and question phrasing not withstanding, the AI is modable in CIV4.