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Civilization Opposites

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Onionsoilder, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Today I decided to go for an Altar victory using a lore appropriate civilization, if not mechanically appropriate civilization, the Grigori. I started next the the Calabim, and I realized just how different they are. Thinking about this, I realized there are a lot of civilizations that are seemingly polar opposites. Here is what I came up with:

    Calabim <-> Grigori

    The Calabim are ruled and exploited by an upper ruling class, while the Grigori enshrine the common man

    Infernal <-> Mercruians

    Rather obvious. The Infernal seek to corrupt the world; The Mercruians care less about the world, and only want to kill demons

    Sheaim <-> Elohim
    Also rather obvious, but the Sheaim want to destroy creation while the Elohim seek to protect it.

    Malakim <-> Sidar
    The Malakim have a strong religious fervor and seek enlightenment through Lugus, while the Sidar have lost all passion and gain knowledge through years of study.

    Balserphs <-> Bannor
    Chaos and whimsical urges lead the Balserphs, while the Bannor have a strict, rigid militaristic system

    Ljosalfar <-> Khazad
    The Ljosalfar see beauty and value in nature, while the Khazad persue materialistic things.

    What else can you guys come up with?
     
  2. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze King

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    Amurites <-> Illidans.

    Obvious, old enemies from AoI, when the Amurites ended the reign of Mulcarn
     
  3. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Emperor

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    Even disregarding that, the Illians represent stasis and tradition, and the Amurites change and science.
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    There is no Illidans civ.



    As far as direct opposites by sphere go:

    Infernals - Kuriotates
    Illians - Ljosalfar
    Sidar - Mercurians
    Clan of Embers - Lanun
    Malakim - Svartalfar
    Hippus - Khazad
    Elohim - Calabim
    Luchuirp - Sheaim
    Balseraphs -Amurites
    Bannor - Doviello
    Grigori - everyone to some degree.

    The Grigori and the Elohim have always stuck me as natural allies (at least under Einion, not Ethne), so this similarity would make the Grigori oppose the Elohim's opposite too. Their sphere should be in perfect balance and so opposing all spheres equally, but Ceridwen is the main threat to the order the gods agreed to so Force and Dimensional could be seen as opposites too, so the Sheaim would be another good opposite for the Grigori.




    Stop maligning the dwarves! Only the dwerger (spelling?) are actually materialistic like that, and they are an anathema to real dwarves. Dwarves don't value wealth in and of itself, they value honest hard work and see profit as a natural consequence of industriousness. Wealth disconnected from honest labor is seen as unclean in the teachings of Kilmorph, and Mammon is seen as the chief evil. Dwarves care for beauty and value too, but are more concerned with how they can work to improve it rather than just letting it be. I don't know of anything canonical describing such enmity between dwarves and elves as is often assumed in fantasy since the time of Tolkien.



    The Amurites of the Age of Rebirth no longer represent change, but rather preserving the legacy of the past ages. When Kylorin led them he followed Nantosuelta, but their current patron is Oghma. Their current scholarly nature is not at all at odds with Ice. Although Knowledge and Mind are more complements than opposites, the Balseraphs do possess a disrespect for the past and preoccupation with fun in the the present and near future instead.



    The Balseraphs are nearly as close to Tali as to Mammon, perhaps even closer if you only count commoners. The Hippus are also quite greedy and thus so largely of those who unknowingly worship Mammon. I get the impression that Tali and Mammon themselves have ben close friends since before Mammon's fall, despite having wildly divergent personalities at the time. While Tali is Kilmorph's opposite, as I said earlier it is Mammon whom her priests teach is the most evil. Both Dwarven nations are enemies of the Balseraphs, especially since these clowns love having dwarven slaves. The Hippus often act as the agents of the Balseraphs against both dwarven nations.




    The Calabim and Malakim are known to be archenemies, which can be traced back to Alexis's murder of Lanthis, an Acolyte of Lugus, in the first vampiric ritual and the resulting curse the god of light placed on all vampires. The vampires are convinced that Lugus holds a serious grudge and is out for revenge, and that those who follow him must be crushed before they can be agents of this revenge. (I personally believe that Lugus is actually just trying to get them to repent, and that the curse is meant to augment their weak conscience. I suspect that at least a couple vampires over the years have repented, been forgiven by Lugus, and had the curse removed, although the path to prove their sincerity s likely very harsh and some may have needed to starve themselves to death.) The Calabim's treatment of the Malakim has however inspired hatred for them among the less devout, and led those like Teutorix to try to wipe them out.



    Obviously, the two sides of the elven civil war don;t get along.
     
  5. Corlis

    Corlis Warlord

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    Of course, being opposites in the spheres doesn't necessarily mean that two sides are going to be each other's worst enemies in practice. I think the only cases where that actually happens is with the Hippus and the Khazad, and maybe the Elohim and the Calabim.
     
  6. Bobchinski

    Bobchinski Chieftain

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    The Lore opposites are:

    Mercurians - Infernal
    Elohim - Sheaim
    Bannor - Clan of Embers
    Amurites - Illians
    Luchuirp - Balseraph
    Ljosalfar - Svartalfar
    Sidar/Malakim - Calabim

    Everyone else has no lore enemy (Kuriotates), is fairly neutral (Grigori, Khazad), mercenary (Hippus and Lanun) or hate everyone equally (Doviello)
     
  7. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Emperor

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    To be fair, there is a certain opposition between the ways of the Khazad and Ljosalfar. The Khazad believe in using the power of industry to reshape the world around them, while the Ljosalfar prefer to preserve the lands as they are. That's not to say the Ljosalfar are lazy (indeed, preserving nature, even in its darkest aspects, is not an easy task) or the Khazad greedy (they admire hard work for its own sake as much as anything else), simply that the former preserve what the latter would use for industry and construction.
     
  8. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    Khazad - Hippus

    Huge tension in the lore between the two. Hippus believe in steal the fruits of others labour, whereas the Khazad (who are offten stole from by the Hippus) believe in hard honest (enough) work.
     
  9. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    From the scenarios, I also get the impression that the Kuriotates and Sheaim are at war in the lore.
     
  10. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze King

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    Opposing dragons
     
  11. Bobchinski

    Bobchinski Chieftain

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    I always read it this way: The Hippus want money so they will often hire themselves out as mercenaries but they will also rob and steal while the Khazad are fresh out of the Underholme and naive about the world. The Khazad were an easy mark for the Hippus, I never really saw it as real animosity or open opposition but a business deal that one side tried to screw the other on.

    I think that the Kuriotates have no direct opposite, they will war with any evil without one enemy above all others.
     
  12. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I don't think the Hippus saw any real animosity either, but the Khazad sure did. It is not really in the nature of Air to try to hurt others, it just doesn't like to think about such inevitable consequences of its actions.
     

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