1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civilization Personalities do they do anything at all?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Modding Discussion' started by roadmaster, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. roadmaster

    roadmaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    I am using ModBuddy to create a civilization Mod and I was trying to determine what to put for the <Personality> value.

    <Personality>PERSONALITY_AMERICANFEDERATION</Personality>

    I found where the default Personalities are defined. CivBEPersonalities.xml

    <Row>
    <ID>0</ID>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_DEFAULT</Type>
    <ScriptName>DefaultPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_ARC</Type>
    <ScriptName>ArcPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_AFRICAN_UNION</Type>
    <ScriptName>AfricanUnionPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_BRASILIA</Type>
    <ScriptName>BrasiliaPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_PAN_ASIA</Type>
    <ScriptName>PanAsiaPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_FRANCO_IBERIA</Type>
    <ScriptName>FrancoIberiaPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_KAVITHAN</Type>
    <ScriptName>KavithanPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_POLYSTRALIA</Type>
    <ScriptName>PolystraliaPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    <Row>
    <Type>PERSONALITY_RUSSIA</Type>
    <ScriptName>RussiaPersonality</ScriptName>
    </Row>
    </Personalities>

    So I figure I can use a default personality but I decided I wanted to try to create a custom one. So I looked around but couldn't find where <ScriptName>blablaPersonility</ScriptName> was referenced to. I finally found a bunch of Personality.Lua Files.

    AfricanUnionPersonality.lua
    ArcPersonality.lua

    and so on and so forth. One Lua for each of the default Personalities. But to my surprise I realized that every one of those lua files are empty, ie.. 0k blank files.

    So can anyone tell me does Personality even work in the above context or am I just completely looking in the wrong spot?


    roadmaster
     
  2. Fins

    Fins Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    No idea about internal mechanics, but i can tell this: in-game, behaviour of different sponsors really feels the same to me. I had Elodie declaring war on me with the "sorry but we must expand" line; i had Kozlov staying hostile in diplomatic screen for over hundred turns (normal speed) but not declaring war, only spitting insults my way now and then; i had Suzanne agreeing my demand not to spy on me readily; etc.
     
  3. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,408
    Gender:
    Male
    They are not completely the same, but they are all pretty dickish. Kozlov and Elodie seem to be the two extremes.

    Kozlov will pretty much always declare war on you if you are on the same continent, and he'll do it a bit earlier if you have the gall to found cities and build expeditions. Peaceful coexistence with Elodie is at least possible, even if you dare to remove miasma near your borders.
     
  4. Fins

    Fins Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Exactly my point: Kozlov doesn't always declare war (yes we were on the same continent, even worse - two of his later cities became nearly completely encircled by my territory - and i was expecting he'd DoW me, and was ready for it, but he wasn't doing it so long i ended up DoWing him myself); Elodie doesn't always remain peaceful - sometimes she declares like anybody else. Frankly, i fail to see definite quirks/personalities in any of them in terms of gameplay...
     
  5. Barathor

    Barathor Emperor

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,202
    I don't think those are currently active. I'm guessing they may have something to do with the new 2.0 update and its revamped diplomacy. Also, I think those Lua files actually contained some data early one, but after one of the recent updates they wiped them. I think the same happened to all the religious stuff leftover during development.

    It's pretty interesting, because flavor values alone simply don't cut it and can appear random at times. They're completely flexible and adaptable to anything you implement, but it eventually gets too complex and one needs to know how EVERYTHING is affecting those values and the normal flow of things, otherwise it becomes a jumbled mess as designers are adding +X FLAVOR_A and -X FLAVOR_B throughout the code and undesirable things happen.

    If they supplement that with hard-coded behavior for each leader to suite their personality and strengths that makes sure things don't stray too far off course, perhaps it could be better.

    Also, interesting new things can be implemented per leader, like Fielding would like you to join her in infiltrating a number of a player's buildings with her and if successful you get a nice diplomacy bonus from it, or she simply asks you to infiltrate an enemy base. If Elodie is present in the game and Fielding dislikes her, that triggers a mission where you have to recover some extremely valuable Earth relic which she is hoarding in her collection. Doing so successfully will give you a nice diplomacy bonus. Perhaps you can betray Fielding and go to Elodie and tell her about this secret mission and then you'll get a bonus with her instead and Fielding will really hate you. OR, you steal the relic and betray Fielding and keep it for yourself for a nice culture boost, haha. But then Fielding may drop an anonymous hint or tell Elodie about what you did, unless you're able to threaten Fielding enough or pay her off some amount (you still did all the work afterall) or something else (internal rolls are made for all these things once chosen, to see if you're threatening enough or if the amount is enough, etc.) That's just an example of interesting things that can be added. Now multiply that by the number of leaders in the game and diplomacy gets very interesting -- a tangled web.
     
  6. GenEngineer

    GenEngineer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Messages:
    456
    I think that's the result of a few factors. For one thing, general policy has been to move so that each AI has a wider range of personalities within the game (at least, if it works anywhere like in Civ5, where on a scale of 1-10 for a certain behavior an AI can swing 5 points), as opposed to the really well defined personalities of Alpha Centauri, where they would ALWAYS behave in a certain way, in an attempt to introduce more variety of gameplay. Furthermore, the low number of actual civilizations hurts, because then you end up seeing everyone so often that they become repetitive - either an expansion or a more sponsor mod might help to make them feel different, if just by introducing some variety. Finally, a lot of the reason the AC leaders felt so wildly different, despite being just as few as BE, was that they had more thorough characterization elsewhere - the fact that the tech quotes were voiced by the appropriate leader made it much easier to read a personality into each of them, allowing even minor differences in behavior to shine through.

    (As for whether or not they're different now, keep in mind that at higher difficulties, everyone is out for your blood - period. I play closer to the middle of the line, so I do see some general differences. Especially when it comes to civs like the KP who never, ever declare war, and rarely bother with a military).
     
  7. Fins

    Fins Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Ah, that's one AI i almost never see in action, - i mean KP - because i love to play KP myself so much... :blush:

    Ditto about difficulties. Yep, possibly that's why i see 'em all so similar.
     
  8. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    9,395
    It was never implemented (probably because they ran out of time), doesn't matter which one you put there (though it probably makes sense to choose one that you find fitting, if they ever implement them).

    But @the rest of the discussion: In general, I don't think that's really the problem with BEs characters, unless I've completely missed something Civ5s AIs also ran purely on the Flavor-System and they had a huge amount of variety. My unfinished Space-Gandhi-Civ actually feels a LOT like Shaka does in Civ5. :D

    I think the actual "they're all the same!"-problems come from a number of other factors:
    - rather conservative numbers in all of the 8 leaders, not so much that they didn't go the extreme end when it comes to offensive flavors, but they didn't reduce the other flavors so even the Civs that are meant to be offensive will waste their time with so much other stuff that they just don't "feel" offensive anymore. It seems like the Devs have forgotten that the AI gets bonuses so it doesn't have to take a balanced approach. (Or maybe it was an informed decision they made, but in that case it wasn't a good one).
    - This also has a huge impact on the randomization of Flavors that takes place (just like in Civ 5, all Flavors get randomly changed by -2 to +2) - it's rather easy to roll a set of Flavors that make the AI behave completely different than it "normally" would when flavors are so close to each other.
    - Starting positions lead to very different outcomes for the AI. If an AI lands near 2 nests then you can be sure that AI won't go anywhere in that game. It will spend the early game clearing these nests and then just be so far behind that their personality just doesn't matter when they're surrounded by stronger Civs.
    - Unique Civ-Bonuses just don't have much influence (and as far as I can see loadout is chosen completely random, so there's just no synergy). Again the Shaka-Example - would he really be such a menace if he didn't have Impi to make up for the science-delay that an early-conquest-Civ gets itself into in Civ 5s midgame? I don't think he'd be able to keep up at that point.
    - And last but not least delayed landings. They screw up everything, on all difficulties, but especially on the high and probably also on the low end of the difficulty scale (because they're fixed bonuses). If on Apollo an AI lands on turn 50, between 2 AIs that landed rather early, then that AI is basically already out of the game - doesn't matter how offensive or expansive it would like to be, UNLESS one of these AIs for some reason did not get any military, then even the most peaceful AI that landed on turn 50 suddenly feels strong enough to become a warmonger. (So I strongly suggest deactivating that option.)

    ...but that's just my rough analysis, I have not tried fixing it, so I may be wrong on some (except for that delayed-landing thing) or missing other factors. But either way - if you want to create an "interesting" Civ use more extreme flavors than the normal Civs do. It's also worth putting some thought into the unique trait and try to make it something the AI can recognize as making them stronger. If you add +10% Unit Production the AI will get more units -> it will feel stronger and be more aggressive. Adding -50% dmg from ranged attacks however is something the AI will not be able to "understand" and it will only help the AI after a successful war, when it lost a few units less than it would have. But of course, Traits should mainly increase the fun for the player.

    ...and yeah, sorry, that went semi-offtopic quite drastically. :D
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    Moderator Action: Moved to Creation & Customization : General Modding Discussion
     

Share This Page