[GS] Civilization VI: Gathering Storm - Antarctic Late Summer Game Update (April 2019)

[oakdragon]

Any idea what kind of science and culture yields Norway will be able to get from pillaging? If it's even remotely close to the current levels Norway will skyrocket up the tier list. Not that I'm complaining, it'll be a solid buff.

They implied they simply removed the ability to get science and culture from general pillaging from the other civs, so it sounds like it should be the same.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I don't think the adjacency bonuses are designed with ocd min-maxing in mind

Personally, though, I think rules should be designed with a view to how they affect game play. I think it's fair for a game designer to assume people will modify their behaviour based on the rules they're provided, rather than assuming they just won't bother.

difference is that woods can be spammed everywhere once conservation is unlocked, hills can't

Could limit to old growth forests.​

 

[criZp]

Could limit to old growth forests.

Would work for balance purpose, but would be very artificial and unrealistic

 

[VCrakeV]

I agree with most if the balance concerns raised, but it doesn't bother me as much given I use mods that balance a lot anyway. I was really excited when i heard "desertification", but disappointed when I saw what they meant. I was hoping for tiles to become deserts (if plains or grasslands) if you chopped too many tiles around them, maybe with climate change having an impact. But no, we just get our bonuses reversed.

Also hoping there's more to diplomacy in the patch. The Congress is a joke, and needs an overhaul desperately.

World builder seems pretty cool. I might give it a try, but I would have rathered better map generation options. Have you ever played Civ 4? Look at the options: number of continents (including per civ options, such as each civ starting on it's own continent), toroidal wrap, and a bunch more. Civ 6 pales in comparison. The world builder doesn't quite make up for this, because it's not the same when you already know the world you're "discovering".

That said, I think the patch is overall great, and I do welcome it. I feel what it lacks in is not what it does, but what it doesn't do.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Just wanted to say I think the tweak to Canada is well thought out. Build a tundra farm triangle and utilize the population for mining hills common for the terrain type. Tundra woods are meant to be chopped or left pristine for Mountie created national parks.

Also think the mission improves Spain and is consistent with the grand strategy aspect of the civ. Conquest-adoring is a messy business and the AI (or other human) will rarely provide the grid necessary for optimal placement. The +1 food/production combined with a +1 science for campus and holy sites means I can plop 3 down in a conquered city, still build things, as well as extract 4 faith, 1 science, +1 food, and +1 production per mission. If you are a grid optimalization player, you can also play that game.

 

[Jarms48]

They needed to nerf Radio Oranje amirite?

Some comments on the balance changes:

Egypt still sucks - UU is still waaaaay too expensive; building bonus is weak; Cleo's leader ability is average at best. Not sure how a minor Sphinx buff is supposed to suddenly make them good.

Egypt got a few buffs recently. With their resistance to river flooding you can turn up your disaster intensity to 4, only build improvements on flood plains and watch the yields grow. Then build all of your districts and wonders on normal rivers for the production bonus.

I believe they can also build the heavy chariot as well as their UU now which gives them more options (a production cost reduction could be nice though). Though this may be a bug, as I can also build heavy chariots as Sumeria whose war carts should replace them entirely.

My biggest worry is that the proposed global warming changes will actually heavily nerf Egypt.

 

[Arent11]

So, we had an australian summer & now we have an antarctic summer. Does that mean we get an Inuit civ with food & production in ice tiles?

 

[Txomin]

These changes sound fun I'm especially looking forward to the search feature. Whenever I uncover a new resource I've always wished I could just search for it fast instead of scrolling around the map
Also makes me want to get a Maori game in before the balance change hits...

 

[Sostratus]

The fact that you need to plan nonsense stuff like this and spam a unique improvement in a way that doesn't make sense to maximize yields is just bad for the game.

If they read my hansa posts before GS they never would have made the coal plant as it is
But it is good that the fatherland soars uber alles so I do not complain...

I wish they had just made unique stuff like the Sphinx, Chateau, Mission, Ziggurat, Golf Course, Ice Hockey Rink, Pairidaeza, etc. unique districts instead, where you could only place one per city.

I guess some of them are one per city already. Although really to fix the "aggressive puzzle" issue you want to move towards more binary bonuses (on/off) than these scaling ones they are trying to add in. Ziggurats are a good example: flat science, +1 culture if on a river. Very easy. Likewise with the old mission: faith, science if next to campus. Easy. A mekewap has scaling bonuses but they solely depend on the terrain which is fairly static- you can't add new resources to the map, so the good mekewap spots are all fixed. Unlike the Pairidaeza, which has a potpourri of district boosts.
In other words,
yield of infrastructure = (function of non-infrastructure) >> not puzzle
yield of infrastructure = (function of other infrastructure) >> puzzle
I actually have long wondered if it would be cool to make the sphinx a unique wonder for egypt (that must be built next to a wonder.) But I also think the faith+culture trope is way too common in UIs and I would rework it to be something else if I could.
Not that all puzzles are bad!

Personally, though, I think rules should be designed with a view to how they affect game play. I think it's fair for a game designer to assume people will modify their behaviour based on the rules they're provided, rather than assuming they just won't bother.

Yes. Certainly they should be mindful of the power level you can extract by abusing something at least moderately. For example, the Hungary sword rush. Not everyone will do it but it's so powerful people will, as you say, plan around getting it, so they nerfed it.
Same way they patched other exploits (like the selling a unit thing on release, chop overflow.)

My biggest worry is that the proposed global warming changes will actually heavily nerf Egypt.

I do worry about some of the long term implication. Maybe they should do something like how the great bath grants a yield contingent on fertility but that isn't fertility.

What the Nile giveth, the Nile taketh away...

 

[Aristos]

I honestly don't feel the need that Canada needs to be buffed. I think it is more exciting that every single civ (and there are a millions civs these days) be different and have their own weaknesses. So, if I want a challenge, I can choose Canada and work my ass off. That gives the game more flavor than buffing and buffing....

How dare you??? Earning your victory? It's 2019! *

*TM some idiot that plays to be a leader of a country, and I'm not talking a game here

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I was really excited when i heard "desertification", but disappointed when I saw what they meant. I was hoping for tiles to become deserts (if plains or grasslands) if you chopped too many tiles around them, maybe with climate change having an impact. But no, we just get our bonuses reversed.

They discussed this specifically in the livestream. That's what he wanted to do originally (either change types or drop base production) but when they dug into the programming it caused too many unforeseen issues with too many other things. placement requirements for different wonders and improvements, for example.

 

[Disgustipated]

Whenever I uncover a new resource I've always wished I could just search for it

Or if you are like me and forget to click the icon on the bottom right when your new resource is discovered, then click next turn and the icon disappears forever. No way to scroll through all your resources if you miss your one and only chance. So then you squint your eyes and go for the long search.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

When GS was released, they changed so that Sphinxes can be built next to each other, and now they change it back? Not sure if it's actually called a buff?

 

[S1AL]

I actually have long wondered if it would be cool to make the sphinx a unique wonder for egypt (that must be built next to a wonder.) But I also think the faith+culture trope is way too common in UIs and I would rework it to be something else if I could.
Not that all puzzles are bad!

I'm curious what you mean by this. There are... I believe 4 times as many culture/gold improvements as there are culture/faith improvements. And far more food/production as well.

Especially given how many of the UI were, historically, religious.

 

[kaspergm]

I guess some of them are one per city already. Although really to fix the "aggressive puzzle" issue you want to move towards more binary bonuses (on/off) than these scaling ones they are trying to add in. Ziggurats are a good example: flat science, +1 culture if on a river. Very easy. Likewise with the old mission: faith, science if next to campus. Easy. A mekewap has scaling bonuses but they solely depend on the terrain which is fairly static- you can't add new resources to the map, so the good mekewap spots are all fixed. Unlike the Pairidaeza, which has a potpourri of district boosts.
In other words,
yield of infrastructure = (function of non-infrastructure) >> not puzzle
yield of infrastructure = (function of other infrastructure) >> puzzle
I actually have long wondered if it would be cool to make the sphinx a unique wonder for egypt (that must be built next to a wonder.) But I also think the faith+culture trope is way too common in UIs and I would rework it to be something else if I could.
Not that all puzzles are bad!

Maybe I was unclear, but I don't mind the puzzle aspect when stated as specific district adjacencies etc., quite on the contrary, I very much like that. What I mind is the spam of multiple similar districts and unique improvements to harvest those yields. For instance surrounding a campus with six missions to me completely kills the immersion in the idea of the districts and improvements being an image of actual city planing. This is why I say a district instead of an improvement might have been better, because it would easily limit them, although I guess you can do the same with an improvement by limiting it to one per city.

 

[S1AL]

It also would have been nice to see civs get special bonuses for generic district adjacencies - such as giving Spain a holy site adjacency bonus from campuses, and vice versa. It would play very well with the change to Mission and would fit in fantastically with El Escorial on a flavor level.

 

[Icicle]

Wow I love all of this. Great to see it, and especially happy to hear that they aren't done balancing and changing things around.

GS was kind of a let down for me but in a so close and yet so far way, I'm hoping that this will bring it up to a success!

 

[Wingednosering]

Love what I'm seeing here. I may actually pick up GS once it drops!

 

[Pietato]

The game's over by then

No.

 

[Pietato]

Egypt got a few buffs recently. With their resistance to river flooding you can turn up your disaster intensity to 4, only build improvements on flood plains and watch the yields grow. Then build all of your districts and wonders on normal rivers for the production bonus.

I believe they can also build the heavy chariot as well as their UU now which gives them more options (a production cost reduction could be nice though). Though this may be a bug, as I can also build heavy chariots as Sumeria whose war carts should replace them entirely.

My biggest worry is that the proposed global warming changes will actually heavily nerf Egypt.

I have disasters set to 4 for every civ.

Egypt still suffer from a crap UI, UU, and a weak bonus.