Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ozymandias9891, Mar 29, 2019.
Why would you want a giant, luxurious house to provide housing? Preposterous! Inconceivable!
Egypt look pretty good to me. UI is better. Synergises well with flood immunity too. And they can build normal chariots too.
Yeah, Cheteau has maybe gone backwards. Canada needs more of a rework. The only thing working well is the hokey rink.
England wasn't discussed. I'd wait and see with them. They'll be more patches, they may well buff power / tier 3 buildings etc anyway, and FXS are clearly listening. I'd be surprised if England don't get better at some point. I think FXS are also sometimes a bit cautious which means they don't always buff things quickly, but when they do they are good changes. Norway and Spain are a case in point - it's taken a few iterations, but they're looking very good. Much better than just a flat +whatever.
Georgia are fine. It's Walls that need a buff, not Giorgia.
I would already be happy if they included a civ customization/editor.
In fairness, I'm not sure there's all that many people living in the Cheteaus. It's not like the Peasants get to live in them. Maybe it's get housing in the modern era when you convert them all to B&Bs?
Sounds like the Cheteau may get extra tourism, so let's see. Otherwise, they may just need like a flat +1 culture or something.
If we take the abstraction of a Chateau as representing an estate, then I do not see how it differs much from the farm improvement. (Since the actually structure is just a small part of the larger network of farms, vineyards, villages, etc.) But I do feel the pain of some uniques where you lose the housing that something like farms would have provided - can't have all of them doing it, of course, but the chateau has always struggled against the Pairidaeza for "culture+gold improvement." IIRC the Pairidaeza straight up gives more gold and appeal and it has +1 culture; +1 at Nat History, +1 for being next to certain districts. The key change for a lot of those UIs on that list will be giving them proper tech tree support.
Some of the best UIs like the mekewap and outback station and kampung all have a handful of techs/civics that boost them so they stay competitive with regular improvements. The chateaux get absolutely zilch. Triste!
@Sostratus Well, b&b jokes aside, you're probably right about them being like an estate.
Cheteau might be a good candidate for being a one UI per city type UI, although I'm not a huge fan of that mechanic.
I am also kind of disappointed by the unique infrastruce "buff".
I remember that in Civilization V, the Great Wall wonder was obsolete when researching Dynamite. It could be interesting to save that spirit, by making obsolete the "fort" bonus but make the Great Wall yield +1 Production instead at Steel. But the +2 initial Gold in nice too. A full wall is now a fort that yield 2 Culture and 4 Gold if next to 2 others Great Wall. Isn't the Alcázar still better, in average? (well, you can't put them everywhere contrary to the Great Wall, but the later need a border).
The Mission isn't that bad, it is just the whole continent that is too impredictable.
I would like the Sphinx to be limited to 1 per city, better yield (like 1 Culture, 1 Faith, 2 Appeal, 1 Culture at Natural History, 2 Faith per adjacent wonder, 1 Faith per adjacent district) at but also give bonus Production towards districts and wonders adjacent to it (or: make Iteru ability also work if next to a Sphinx), and make that stackable. For example, if a wonder is building on a river next to a Sphinx, it is a 30% Production bonus.
The Château is the worst. Not only they are still weak, but also weaker than before: +1 Culture per adjacent wonder is, on average, weaker than +2 Culture if adjacent to a wonder. +1 Gold for every adjacent luxury ressource is nice, but still too situationnal. If they wanted to make them really powerfull, it should have like 1 Housing, or 1 Amenity if adjacent to a luxury (but many Château are around the same luxury, it only yield 1 Amenity), or +100% Tourism for adjacent wonder or something, or the 3 at the same time but it is too powerfull (well, I can dream about a +1 Culture, +1 Housing and +1 Appeal, +1 Amenity if adjacent to a luxury ressource (a single luxury only yield 1 Amentity around many Château, and a Château around many luxury only yield 1 Amenity), and +100% Tourism from adjacent wonder!).
Except the unique tiles improvment, all the rest are pretty good!
The mission only gained +1f/p on foreign continent; the old +2sci next to campus has been swapped to +1 for each campus/HS. The sci at CultHeritage was always there. Now, that's not bad, but it does mean some extra finagling to get goo science out. Before it was easy to build a city, plop a campus with some space, and surround with missions for the tasty +2-4 science. This shift changes maximization to create a fairly obnoxious grid:
Basically you would want to have these "sparse grids" of campus (light blue) and holy sites (gray) so that as many missions can get +3 as possible (on an infinite grid it would be all of them but then there'd be no space for cities) and +2's. The green tiles highlight all the +2 or +3 mission spots between these 3 random cities I threw in for illustration. You could of course make this patterns stretch infinitely in one dimension if you wanted.
For those curious, if you had all the desert in the world, keeping this style of sparse hex grid (but some dots would be the city centers themselves, the rest any of the relevant yield grantors) is how you would achieve the best Nubian pyramid scheme (all +3.)
Further, using the new world builder, this same sparse grid but making the districts land tiles and the mission spots water tiles, is how you create the optimal polder configuration in a given space; since all polders border 3 land tiles and 3 polders.
The things we do for yields...
There's a lot of complaining about the Cheteau on Reddit too. I assume if this keeps up, we'll end up with an exclusive France Cheteau patch.
I think at this point China’s Wall is probably fine, and it’s actually Forts generally that need a boost.
By the by. I still just can’t get my head around how chunky this patch is. I really didnt think it would be this dense. It’s just nuts. I’m really impressed. And I’m really impressed they took the time to do a livestream and really explain stuff. And go back and look at things again - eg Egypt had already been buffed.
I mean, gee whizz, this is a mile away from what it was like post RnF release. So much better.
@Sostratus I’m not totally clear how these UIs will get improved via unlocking later techs. I’m also liking how they will have more complex placement although the trade off is that maybe they aren’t as buffed overall.
A minor buff to the sphinx did not make Egypt good...
I think our unending mantra of suggesting they put balance changes into the context of their design vision is finally getting through to them. A better fan than me would bake them a cake. Seriously; I absolutely love that they gave a few sentences insight into most of the headline tweaks. Its really all they needed to do. And it avoids the bitterness of the england execution of yesteryear.
They don't need a video every patch if its a big amount of work but, even providing this written is great.
TheGameMechanic went through all the changes on Twitch. Carl was in the chat and provided lots of additional comments / insights.
Nothing earth shattering, but really great he took the time.
For those that are interested... the main things I got from the chat were: City States will get extra units based on difficulty and Walls for Immortal and Deity; Cheteau maybe wasn’t buffed but more “rebalanced”; there was a bug with Barbs and it’s been fixed; there will still be problems with City State placement; sounds like Maori are in a good place now with the debuff; TGM told Carl pretty clearly he thought Canada is still weak, but Carl was unconvinced.
The climat balance thing hinges on whether or not it will break the computer beelining meta (my meta anyway). If I can actually trust the world not to drown if I put some effort into it it would be good. But if it just boils down to having to build barriers a little later but more of them because of extra lowlands then I'm not too thrilled. Having half your coast behind barriers looks odd and ugly. Regardless I would have prefered a per tile approach of building dikes but I guess the game can't handle double improvements or something.
Did they say something about the completely ridiculous production costs for flood barriers? Delaying the climate change would be useless, if it still takes me 100+x turns to complete a flood barrier.
Not that I’ve seen.
The base cost is fine, it's the penalty when you build them too late that stinks. And it's not like building in 21m depth is that much more challenging than building in 20m depth...
It sort of is, as Firetuner. I downloaded from steam initially and it works fine, I’m with @Gedemon on this, they did not give us much new there. I have been able to call it from the menu for quite a while.
There are now so many CS UI’s that you can spam all over your land instead of farms, and should for a CV that it has become insane. Now you can put these puppies next to each other and they give more culture they will be spammed for a CV until egyptian lands look like a tourist shop. However they are not so unique now, Going for CV and have Rapanui in the game? Spamming those statues gives unpleasantly large amounts of culture. Sure you have to chop down the trees to do so, just unconvinced that is a hardship.
Carl telling TGM he is unconvinced Canada is weak and needs a buff indicates agenda or ignorance/stupidity. The former just shows they have selective hearing because everyone agreeing they are worse than Georgia is a bit of a strong clue, if the issue is the latter then Oh my we are doomed.
When did civilization turn from grand strategy to a puzzle game?
I found the cost fine, it can be boosted with agoge. It's not that their uu is too expensive, but that Nubia's is too cheap.
Well, it would have to become a grand strategy game first in order to stop being one. Civ is a 4X game. And it's been a district puzzle game since... well, since Civ VI came out.
Separate names with a comma.