[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - Discussion Thread

If you run Yongle's special project from the very start of the game you can almost always get the Religious Settlements pantheon for a free settler.

Pretty strong. 😁
That's what I did, in combination with a fortunate find of an early relic. It's especially strong in my case because I use a mod that disables Settlers until Early Empire--which means I got an extra city a good couple dozen turns before anyone else.
 
Is it too early to start speculating on leader abilities, looks, agendas of the Sahara rulers pack? :mischief:

If not, I have a great idea for Ptolemaic Cleopatra.

Leader Ability: Mouseion- Campus buildings provide bonus culture equal to the adjacency bonus of the district. Libraries get a Great Work of Writing slot and +1 Great Writer Point per turn.

Her agenda would be Hellenistic Center which would probably be just a reskinned Cultured agenda. I'd rather it be a reskinned Destination Civ agenda which revolves around getting the most tourism, and dislikes others competing in tourism.
 
Leader Ability: Mouseion- Campus buildings provide bonus culture equal to the adjacency bonus of the district. Libraries get a Great Work of Writing slot and +1 Great Writer Point per turn.
What's the downside? Can't build Theatre Squares? Can't recruit Great Musicians? Bonus culture for each building in the campus sounds a bit too strong.
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An idea based on yours:

Leader Ability: Campus districts gain major adjacency from World Wonders. One Great Work of Writing Slot in each Library and two in each University. +1 Great Writer point in each Library and University for each adjacent world wonder. Upon completing a world wonder, gain Great Writer points equal to 25% of that wonder's production cost. Great Musicians cannot be earned.

meh..
 
Is it too early to start speculating on leader abilities, looks, agendas of the Sahara rulers pack? :mischief:

If not, I have a great idea for Ptolemaic Cleopatra.

Leader Ability: Mouseion- Campus buildings provide bonus culture equal to the adjacency bonus of the district. Libraries get a Great Work of Writing slot and +1 Great Writer Point per turn.

Her agenda would be Hellenistic Center which would probably be just a reskinned Cultured agenda. I'd rather it be a reskinned Destination Civ agenda which revolves around getting the most tourism, and dislikes others competing in tourism.
While I'm up for anything that enhances the Musaeum or Mouseion, two quibbles:
First, the institution was founded about 200 years before she was born, by Ptolemy I or Ptolemy II right at the beginning of the Dynasty.
Second, the 'Museum' didn't attract just any Tourists, it attracted Great Writers and Great Scientists from all over the Greek/Hellenistic and later, Roman world:
Zenodotus, who invented alphabetical order in listing
Apollonius of Rhodes, who wrote the epic poem, the Argonautica, the source for the stories of Jason and Argonauts.
Archimedes, a student there before he went on to practically invent Mechanics
Eratosthenes of Cyrene, who wrote a massive work on Geography and was one of the first writers to apply mathematics to geographical map-making - and calculated the earth's circumference to within a few hundred kilometers, which is not bad for a First Approximation.
Aristophanes of Byzantium, one of the head librarians, who practically invented literary criticism as a prose form
Euclid's Geometry, Galen's mass of works and especially his commentaries on medicine, Claudius Ptolemy's Almagest on astronomy, Dioscoride's De Materia Medica, the basis for all subsequent pharmacopeias - all were written at or as a result of the work at the Mouseion.

Not sure how to formulate it, but any such agenda should revolve specifically around getting Great Scientists and/or Great Writers and not liking anybody else who accumulates them, or an Ability that, say, halves the cost of Great Scientists and//or Great Writers.
 
Can't recruit Great Musicians?
Oh, whatever would I do without Great Musicians! :shifty:

Not sure how to formulate it, but any such agenda should revolve specifically around getting Great Scientists and/or Great Writers and not liking anybody else who accumulates them
angry Dom Satan noises
 
Second, the 'Museum' didn't attract just any Tourists, it attracted Great Writers and Great Scientists from all over the Greek/Hellenistic and later, Roman world:
That's true. I remember Getafix specifically visited Egypt to peruse the library in Asterix and Cleopatra.
 
What's the downside? Can't build Theatre Squares? Can't recruit Great Musicians? Bonus culture for each building in the campus sounds a bit too strong.
---

An idea based on yours:

Leader Ability: Campus districts gain major adjacency from World Wonders. One Great Work of Writing Slot in each Library and two in each University. +1 Great Writer point in each Library and University for each adjacent world wonder. Upon completing a world wonder, gain Great Writer points equal to 25% of that wonder's production cost. Great Musicians cannot be earned.

meh..
I considered limiting the bonuses to only libraries but I also thought that might be too weak. Balancing isn't my forte, and well maybe not some of the devs either. Hello Yongle (2.0). :mischief:
I do like the idea of adjacency bonuses from World wonders though. It makes it more thematic and ties it to their civ ability.

It would be strange though, and ironic, if the Greek inspired Egypt couldn't build the most Greek-looking district, the Theater Square, in the game. :crazyeye:
While I'm up for anything that enhances the Musaeum or Mouseion, two quibbles:
First, the institution was founded about 200 years before she was born, by Ptolemy I or Ptolemy II right at the beginning of the Dynasty.
Second, the 'Museum' didn't attract just any Tourists, it attracted Great Writers and Great Scientists from all over the Greek/Hellenistic and later, Roman world:
Zenodotus, who invented alphabetical order in listing
Apollonius of Rhodes, who wrote the epic poem, the Argonautica, the source for the stories of Jason and Argonauts.
Archimedes, a student there before he went on to practically invent Mechanics
Eratosthenes of Cyrene, who wrote a massive work on Geography and was one of the first writers to apply mathematics to geographical map-making - and calculated the earth's circumference to within a few hundred kilometers, which is not bad for a First Approximation.
Aristophanes of Byzantium, one of the head librarians, who practically invented literary criticism as a prose form
Euclid's Geometry, Galen's mass of works and especially his commentaries on medicine, Claudius Ptolemy's Almagest on astronomy, Dioscoride's De Materia Medica, the basis for all subsequent pharmacopeias - all were written at or as a result of the work at the Mouseion.
I know it was founded before her, but I don't see what else a Ptolemaic Cleopatra persona would do? That didn't stop them from giving Yongle the Lijia ability, which it was actually Yongle's father that started the Lijia system. Because the Ptolemies rulers always funded the institution, I think it's appropriate to at least give her abilities around it associated to her.
Not sure how to formulate it, but any such agenda should revolve specifically around getting Great Scientists and/or Great Writers and not liking anybody else who accumulates them, or an Ability that, say, halves the cost of Great Scientists and//or Great Writers.
They've seem to be reusing old hidden agendas, and renaming them, so the cultured one and tourist one makes the most sense. :dunno:
Oh, whatever would I do without Great Musicians! :shifty:
Well Kupe can live without Great Writers so I think you could manage. :p
 
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I considered limiting the bonuses to only libraries but I also thought that might be too weak. Balancing isn't my forte, and well maybe not some of the devs either. Hello Yongle (2.0). :mischief:
I do like the idea of adjacency bonuses from World wonders though. It makes it more thematic and ties it to their civ ability.

It would be strange though, and ironic, if the Greek inspired Egypt couldn't build the most Greek-looking district, the Theater Square, in the game. :crazyeye:

I know it was founded before her, but I don't see what else a Ptolemaic Cleopatra persona would do? That didn't stop them from giving Yongle the Lijia ability, which it was actually Yongle's father that started the Lijia system. Because the Ptolemies rulers always funded the institution, I think it's appropriate to at least give her abilities around it associated to her.

They've seem to be reusing old hidden agendas, and renaming them, so the cultured one and tourist one makes the most sense. :dunno:

Well Kupe can live without Great Writers so I think you could manage. :p

Even if the district itself gave culture equal to its science bonus, that would already be a very strong ability. Add in a Writing slot to libraries, or a major campus adjacency from Wonders, and I'd be more than happy to play that. I mean, keep in mind Cleo's current ability is more or less just +4 gold per international trade route and double alliance points (and the bonus for routes sent to Egypt is probably more of a negative than positive for her since it helps the sender more), she doesn't necessarily need a huge amount of bonuses to be better than her alt.
 
I like the idea of going all-in on Great Works of Writing and Great Writers.

How about:
Can't build Theater Squares. Libraries gain +1 Great Writer points per turn and two Great Works of Writing slots. Universities gain +2 Great Writer points and +2 Great Works of Writing slots. Slotted Great Works of Writing generate Science equal to their Culture yield.

Yes, it slams down their overall culture without Theater Squares and their buildings, but the science return would be tremendous.
 
That's true. I remember Getafix specifically visited Egypt to peruse the library in Asterix and Cleopatra.
The Asterix comics had a surprising amount of real history tucked away in them: Everybody consulted the Museion who had any pretensions to being an intellectual.
There are several institutions that, as Wonders, if modeled at all accurately, would be magnificently Science OP:
The Museion at Alexandria
The Toledo School of Translators
The Bayt al-Hikmah (House of Wisdom) in Baghdad

All of them were transformative in establishing or transmitting scientific/engineering/mathematical knowledge in their time and place.
 
I like the idea of going all-in on Great Works of Writing and Great Writers.

How about:
Can't build Theater Squares. Libraries gain +1 Great Writer points per turn and two Great Works of Writing slots. Universities gain +2 Great Writer points and +2 Great Works of Writing slots. Slotted Great Works of Writing generate Science equal to their Culture yield.

Yes, it slams down their overall culture without Theater Squares and their buildings, but the science return would be tremendous.
I think if she couldn't build Theater Squares then I would go for the Campus getting adjacency bonuses to World Wonders, at least which fits perfectly with Egypt's playstyle and makes since historically.

Since Egypt is primarily designed to be a cultural civ I wanted to give them a unique way to produce culture. This Cleopatra makes sense to use science to do that, but I also wouldn't want her culture to fall far behind. Then again, maybe she could convert her science to tourism late game?

I also have in mind Ramesses going the obvious cultural route too, but through faith and Holy Sites. Not to mention the idea of buying builders with faith. :)
 
Well Kupe can live without Great Writers so I think you could manage. :p
I was being snarky. Great Musicians come into play so late in the game and contribute so little (I didn't even recruit a single Great Musician my last CV) that losing them feels like a very weak malus. Like losing -2 Loyalty per turn from building a mid-to-late-game district or something. :mischief:
 
I was being snarky. Great Musicians come into play so late in the game and contribute so little (I didn't even recruit a single Great Musician my last CV) that losing them feels like a very weak malus. Like losing -2 Loyalty per turn from building a mid-to-late-game district or something. :mischief:
You might feel that satellite radio would be kind of useless. :)
 
can we expect Rulers of the Sahara to be released next month?
I'm looking forward to seeing how Ramesses II, Ptolemaic Cleopatra and Sundiata Keita look like. I hope Sundiata Keita speaks a Mande language. But they might have gotten another Egyptian voice actor to voice his lines in Arabic....
 
can we expect Rulers of the Sahara to be released next month?
I'm looking forward to seeing how Ramesses II, Ptolemaic Cleopatra and Sundiata Keita look like. I hope Sundiata Keita speaks a Mande language. But they might have gotten another Egyptian voice actor to voice his lines in Arabic....

I think they are still on schedule? I'm a Mac player, so it will be a while for me yet.

Anyone else still waiting on the Rulers of China livestream? 😂
 
In my opinion, Wu Zetian is by far the weakest leader of those that have been released so far. In my first few attempts I could not even win on emperor with her. But I am generally only a mediocre player, so others may think differently about that.
 
can we expect Rulers of the Sahara to be released next month?
I'm looking forward to seeing how Ramesses II, Ptolemaic Cleopatra and Sundiata Keita look like. I hope Sundiata Keita speaks a Mande language. But they might have gotten another Egyptian voice actor to voice his lines in Arabic....
It could be as early as two weeks from Thursday. Definitely some time in February, if they hold to their "whole pass by the end of March" plan.

We have a pretty good idea of Ramses, based on the LP advertising image. He will be an older man with the double crown of Egypt on his head.

I'm also eager to see how they will portray Ptolemaic Cleo. I imagine she will have a fairly Greek mode of dress, which will be interesting to see work with her existing animations. She's fairly lively and it will probably require the fabric to flow quite a bit.

I believe Sundiata was pre-Islamic, thus he shouldn't speak Arabic. It will be interesting to see what they do.
 
In my opinion, Wu Zetian is by far the weakest leader of those that have been released so far. In my first few attempts I could not even win on emperor with her. But I am generally only a mediocre player, so others may think differently about that.
That's kind of funny because I found her very useful on higher levels because her bonus to offensive spy operations allowed me to steal science boosts incredibly quickly. Usually I have pretty bad luck with offensive operations but after gathering sources most of her agents options were at >90% success rate
 
That's kind of funny because I found her very useful on higher levels because her bonus to offensive spy operations allowed me to steal science boosts incredibly quickly. Usually I have pretty bad luck with offensive operations but after gathering sources most of her agents options were at >90% success rate
Indeed. She's quite good at spying. But she's only as good as spy missions are useful. At higher levels where there are eurekas to steal and the AIs' cities have decent science and culture outputs, she has her worth.
 
That's kind of funny because I found her very useful on higher levels because her bonus to offensive spy operations allowed me to steal science boosts incredibly quickly. Usually I have pretty bad luck with offensive operations but after gathering sources most of her agents options were at >90% success rate
OK, thanks for the feedback. Whenever possible, I tried to beeline defensive tactics to get that free spy, but I was mostly so far behind in culture (and science) that the AI had already stolen money from me when I had my first spy. But as I wrote, I'm a bad player.
 
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