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[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. marius_kaparius

    marius_kaparius Warlord

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    The video says it is only one Diplomatic quarter. I follow your reasoning but it affects only one city in the empire. Similar to how you choose which city gets the Government District.
     
  2. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    I get what they are doing with Teddy to some extent. The +5 CS has been a divisive ability on this forum with lots of people finding it boring. It kind of defines America since all of their other abilities come so late, but changes them from a culture civ to a Dom/Culture hybrid. I guess that wasn't what firaxis intended?

    Agreed that the replacement for +5 CS would have to be pretty meaningful to avoid turning them into a less interesting Canada (which given how divisive Canada is on these forums would be saying something)
     
  3. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Ok, so at 2:36 Anton says: "To prevent envoys from becoming too powerful, envoy bonuses are now directly tied to these two buildings as well".

    It could mean the envoys unlocked by civics are no longer unlocked by civics. but the way I read it, since the Quarter and Buildings generate Influence Points, they don't want it to be too powerful and Influence Points will no longer be generated by Government tier.

    As for the second paragraph, I don't see it turning like that at all. You'll still gain envoys from meeting city states and completing quests at least. I think if anything it will stop envoy spamming, so you'll have to be more selective regarding where you send them.

    I like that it is no longer mostly a passive yield. If you want to reap the greater rewards and higher tiers from City-States, you should have to put some effort into it.

    Could you give a timestamp for that? That's not how I heard it.
     
  4. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    Oh no, reasons to grow cities beyond 10 population... And making decisions instead of just spamming the same districts in every city? What is this? Some kind of strategy game?

    Besides, you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't really supported by the video. We don't know how the envoy bonuses will be tied to the new district buildings.
     
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  5. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    I assume it means that city state bonuses will unlock as you build new buildings in this district. Depending on where it falls on the tech/civic tree this could be a reasonable speedbump on ramping up yields or it could be a complete nothing burger.
     
  6. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    Yes, but with the Government Plaza you get unique bonuses that can speed up the rest of your game (50% settler production says hello). With the Diplomatic Quarter, you now get those envoy bonuses that you just had access to previously by playing a standard game. And you’re going to need to figure out which of your cities is going to take the hit in losing a district slot. Having one of those effectively lost slots in the Gov. Plaza is one thing, but migrating preexisting systems into taking another district that interferes with your core buildup is not a very interesting system, at least on paper.

    Anton said that "envoy bonuses are now directly tied to these two buildings", which I assume means that the tier two (three envoys) and tier three (six envoys) are now tied to these buildings as well. You can see at 2:25 and 2:35 these buildings have an assortment of yield, which I assume is those envoy bonuses being added onto those buildings directly. That's why I'm making that assumption, because you can see it in the Dev Diary.

    And @Kwami the problem is that the entire design of game incentivizes you get 10 pop and then not grow much taller. Adding in one extra district isn't going to suddenly change that, it's just going to make the systems you migrated behind it more clumsy to use.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  7. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I understand what you are trying to say - but isn't that a good thing? I always felt that inflated tier 1 building boni from envoys where too much gain for too little investment.
     
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  8. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    I see! That's completely different from what I imagined. But then, how does that actually work?

    If that's how it will work, I see it as a positive change.

    I understand. However, it should take only a couple of lines of code if you want the other Teddy to also have the Rough Rider.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  9. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    If you see that as a positive change, then we can agree to disagree. I just think it will make interacting with City-States less rewarding until you get this district, which comes at a significant opportunity cost, which I think will make the game more clumsy to play. But again, I'm only posting first impressions. I could very easily be wrong.
     
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  10. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I think the bigger picture is you now want to build your neighborhoods around the Diplomatic Quarter to prevent partisans from being recruited. :mischief:
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  11. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    Definitely. Ideally, I'd make it work like this:

    1 envoy: +X yield in your Capital.
    3 envoys: +X yield on the Consulate.
    6 envoys: +X yield on the Chancery.

    This would be a much needed nerf to wide which benefited A LOT from having that bonus in each city, and make a very interesting "tall" city, as you could add Pingala here and get a great boost to science and culture.
     
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  12. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    What it would really do is make the game take longer without adding anything interesting. You'll have less science and culture overall, which means more turns grinding out the second half until you win. It does nothing to change the tall/wide balance, though, because 10 campuses are still better then 5 campuses and 10 commercial hubs are better than 5 commercial hubs, and so on. I guess it makes single-city challenges slightly less bad, maybe?

    This sort of change would also disincentivize early exploration because meeting city states wouldn't be nearly as valuable. So much for scouts, I guess.

    I really doubt that this is what they meant and I really hope that it isn't. Terrible change.
     
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  13. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    That's not enough of a nerf to wide to shift the meta towards building tall though. The district system by its very nature makes wide gameplay the way to go. Just adding in this district doesn't make tall now good, it now means that you've got even more reasons to conquer neighboring City-States rather than go through all the hoops of befriending them and reaping the rewards of doing so.

    I don't disagree with nerfing City-State bonuses, but you could just instead tone down the numbers for the tier one building rewards instead of creating several new obstacles to interacting with City-States.

    Hey, I mean I'll take any nerf to Recruit Partisans in whatever shape I can get it.
     
  14. wesplaysciv

    wesplaysciv Chieftain

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    I suspect it is something like this. In the video, the consulate yields 4 gold, 4 science, and 2 faith. The chancery yields 3 faith. So I am thinking that there is one level of envoys that provides +2 of the yield to the consulate building, and the next level of envoys provides +3 of a yield to the chancery building.
     
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  15. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    The devil will be in the details. But given how central they are to the best strategies, changing how CS bonuses are granted (no matter how they do it) will probably be one of the most impactful changes they've made in a while.
     
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  16. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Not very excited about this update. To be honest, I'm losing interest in this game, and not playing right now. I think it peaked out with Gathering Storm. That's why it's a good idea to end it when you are at the top. It's getting far too silly at this point. I'm actually regretting spending money for frontier pass.
     
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  17. cuso210

    cuso210 Warlord

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    Really dissapointed with the Vampire society. I mean, it's not even the mechanics, as someone else said, they could work perfectly fine with an Assasin order, it's the name and the graphics. Why on earth would you compare a Illuminati-style society, alchemist and ocultists with vampires? I can't wrap my head around a good reason beyond "we just wanted to add more fantasy to the game".
    To me personally, having these modes being optional and turning them on and off as you please is not a good excuse for them to be purposefully fantastical. I want to play with the mode, it seems fun and would like to have in every game ocultists, Minerva illuminatis and alchemists, but not vampires, so now I have to concede and keep adding mythological units to the game or just scrap completely what in my mind is a good mode in a game that really needs these kind of shake ups in the middle and late game (we don't know the last effects of those societies so they could be game changing in the later eras.
    Again, it is not the mechanics, is the decision of dressing those mechanics with vampires when real historical groups could fit much, much better in a historical inspired game (having inmortal leaders or the same unit exploring the map for thousands of years is not an excuse either because those leaders and the concept of scouting do exist in the real world).

    I think the worst part for me is that the game still has some areas where it could grow and expand: Revamp religion and espionage, add corportarions, adding mechanics tying colonization and free cities, giving a little more life to city states, adding cultural groups that affect other parts of the game (like extra pressure to loyalty or "affinity" to some yield) and can spread in natural way or with events like war, peace, treaties... But sadly, Firaxis thinks the game is ok as it is in terms of core functionality (it is their game, they have the right to think so), and every NFP update it seems they are not going to touch them. It could be so much more, I hope they don't miss the mark.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  18. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    They don't look much like vampires though, so it might be as simple as changing the text files to something else.
     
  19. cuso210

    cuso210 Warlord

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    The icon is kinda vampiric but it is ok, the animation when it kills a unit, floating in the air and absorbing blood, that does look a lot like a vampire. I really hope someone can mod it to give the unit a normal combat animation, change the name and possibly the vampire castle too, though that can just be an assasin lair (an european/romanian looking lair for all civs, but if every civ have a roman library and amphitheatre, I can compromise)
     
  20. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    As far as vampires go, I just picture that society as being like the military society of the Order of the Dragon, which the name Dracula comes from, and who Vlad Tepes was a member of.
     

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