[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

[Myomoto]

I would be way more interested in a kind of supply logistics system for making military management more complex than some kind of lifetime system. Right now it's kind of crazy that a unit can just march across any size desert or set up shop forever in the north pole without any concerns.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I know everyone hates the Huns and all, but I'd really love a mechanic that gives bonuses from razing cities.

 

[Myomoto]

I was rewatching Potatoe McWhiskey's video on YouTube about 4 things that he still finds annoying in Civ VI's design. One of the big suggestions he gives is for Great Prophets to have a use after founding of all religions. What do you think is the likelihood that the later pack with additional great persons could be something like this?

 

[Zaarin]

I was rewatching Potatoe McWhiskey's video on YouTube about 4 things that he still finds annoying in Civ VI's design. One of the big suggestions he gives is for Great Prophets to have a use after founding of all religions. What do you think is the likelihood that the later pack with additional great persons could be something like this?

Borderline non-existent. I think they should be unique like other great people, too, but Firaxis isn't going to touch that with a 100-foot pole.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Borderline non-existent. I think they should be unique like other great people, too, but Firaxis isn't going to touch that with a 100-foot pole.

Would it really be too controversial? I think for certain religious figures it would but it looks like Firaxis was able to avoid that already from their original selection of not including them.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Would it really be too controversial? I think for certain religious figures it would but it looks like Firaxis was able to avoid that already from their original selection of not including them.

In the same moment Firaxis attaches any differences to them, discussion will break loose, about if religion X is depicted correct. I fully understand them in regard to not entering that territory. The entire religion system in civ only works because it is a toolbox in the hand of the players.

 

[acluewithout]

Firaxis don't need to give Prophets individual abilities. Just retool them to Evangalise Religion or Start Inquisition instead of Apostles, and or spawn Relics (which would at least have some value for Civs that didn't Found a Religion). You could even combine that with sort of Great General Ability for Religious Units.

At one point, I was very much in the "You should be able to keep recruiting Great Prophets after all Religions are Founded" camp. I still think the game might be better if you could keep recruiting Great Prophets after all the Religions are Founded, but it's probably not actually a big deal. Instead, I think the bigger issues was / is getting the Beliefs buffed and getting some more unit diversity, and we've at least go the first one.

 

[Ezumiyr]

The religious systems in Civ6 is uncontroversial because it's extremely christian-centric in its game mechanics, with apostles and missionaries at the core of the religious gameplay. They added gurus and you can choose traits that aren't based on christianity, but overall it's based on the way christianity worked, with apostles defining the initial doctrines, and missionaries expanding the faith. It kinda works for buddhism too, but that's all.
Even for the other monotheistic faiths it just doesn't work, as historically judaism is an ethno-religion and islam didn't use missionaries or apostles, but instead military force, then trade, as well as specific laws that favor muslims.

If Civ6 had been developed in another part of the world, its religious system would be completely different.

But really it's always like this in Civ. the game design is imbued in traditional american values, like the belief in progress, capitalism, the benefits of war, essentialism, and with civ6, even the way women and native people are represented.
It's not controversial because people from other cultures see it clearly as an american product.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Borderline non-existent. I think they should be unique like other great people, too, but Firaxis isn't going to touch that with a 100-foot pole.

It is my dream for Firaxis to adopt this mode https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1799508183
but zut alors... it is but a midsummer night's dream...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In the same moment Firaxis attaches any differences to them, discussion will break loose, about if religion X is depicted correct. I fully understand them in regard to not entering that territory. The entire religion system in civ only works because it is a toolbox in the hand of the players.

Well to me they've already started going down that route of giving each worship building a particular bonus other than faith. Apparently Buddhism seems to be kind of the diplomatic religion considering the Pagoda now gives diplomatic favor with the Potala Palace and Mahabodi Temple granting Diplomatic Victory points.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

But really it's always like this in Civ. the game design is imbued in traditional american values, like the belief in progress, capitalism, the benefits of war, essentialism, and with civ6, even the way women and native people are represented.

The hell dose that mean? Civ 6 has more large focus on female rulers than any other incarnation before hand. Also there are more non-European civs now.
American values? Are you equating money with American values? You do realise even in Soviet Russia, they still used money and economy right? Sure civ economy is simplistic but key idea is that no matter where you were and what period of history you were at... money is important even in communist nations.

islam didn't use missionaries or apostles,

AHEM! *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_missionary_activity#:~:text=Islamic missionary work or dawah,and exploration or Muslim conquests.*
and you think Christianity didn't use military force and trade... what do you think Missionaries did during colonial times in places like Africa, America, Asia and Oceania. I know for a fact that Christian missionaries often worked with whalers and other traders to convert New Zealand Maoris into Christianity.

 

[Myomoto]

Well, I guess Zaarin was right

 

[Zaarin]

Would it really be too controversial? I think for certain religious figures it would but it looks like Firaxis was able to avoid that already from their original selection of not including them.

I actually don't think attaching abilities to Great Prophets would be that controversial as long as they didn't attach abilities to religion (see discussion above ), but I don't think Firaxis would take the risk. Plus they'd have to make Great Prophets good for more than founding a religion.

The religious systems in Civ6 is uncontroversial because it's extremely christian-centric

Sure it is. The religious system in game doesn't resemble any religion I'm familiar with, but if it fits your straw man of Christianity I guess that's nice.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I actually don't think attaching abilities to Great Prophets would be that controversial as long as they didn't attach abilities to religion (see discussion above ), but I don't think Firaxis would take the risk. Plus they'd have to make Great Prophets good for more than founding a religion.

Yes I'm all for not attaching any specific beliefs to the religion that you pick, considering a majority of them are also custom. My point is I don't think there's anything inherently bad about giving Bodhidharma the ability to grant a Warrior Monk unit or Martin Luther granting an inspiration for Reformed Church, considering it's historically accurate.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm actually for all fictional religions, of you want to go that way. Then you can do whatever with. The religion name is just a name anyhow.

 

[bbbt]

But really it's always like this in Civ. the game design is imbued in traditional american values, like the belief in progress, capitalism, the benefits of war, essentialism, and with civ6, even the way women and native people are represented.
It's not controversial because people from other cultures see it clearly as an american product.

It's more broadly 'western' than 'American'. Everything you mentioned came to America from European thought.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

It's more broadly 'western' than 'American'. Everything you mentioned came to America from European thought.

It isn't like other religion had disciples. No confucius certainly did not have disciples to spread his words.

 

[zhugejingqi]

I think the religious system is very idealistic. In fact, there is no value preaching. Of course, you can say that you see a certain western value or prejudice in the game. You just need to realize that it only needs a complete fiction and has nothing to do with reality. It's just game design. When the productivity provided by factories is not as productive as religious areas, satellites and space probes are launched in polar regions using only wood, deer and stone. It doesn't reflect any value, or any actual ideological infiltration, it can only show that the game is a pure entertainment with a little bit of numerical collapse.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Well to me they've already started going down that route of giving each worship building a particular bonus other than faith. Apparently Buddhism seems to be kind of the diplomatic religion considering the Pagoda now gives diplomatic favor with the Potala Palace and Mahabodi Temple granting Diplomatic Victory points.

Indeed, you are right here. Forgot about that and yes, thats already going in that direction. Giving attributes to persons is though likely even more problematic.

 

[Zaarin]

satellites and space probes are launched in polar regions using only wood, deer and stone.

"I am attempting to put together a space ship with little more than stone knives and bear skins."