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[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    If they didn't want to go there, something else different and possibly fun would be if it let you choose one of the things that the world congress votes on every session. Might be too good for the player though, vs. if the AI gets it and will likely still not know what to pick.
     
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  2. Timothy001

    Timothy001 Prince

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    @bite Just a quick question. Where did the info about Vietnam and Kublai Khan come from. I just plain missed where the info came from. I saw another site, that lists the same info. Thx
     
  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    The names were found in the game files shortly after the Ethiopia pack was released unintentionally. They've since been removed.
     
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  4. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    See here where it was first reported. From the now deleted Readme:
     
  5. Timothy001

    Timothy001 Prince

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    Thx. Missed the report
     
  6. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    UN was removed from WC back in civ V. I guess its a good idea to bring it back without messing with the WC.
     
  7. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Would be nice but I don't know how likely it is. If probably would of come with the Ethiopia pack if it's requirement was to be built adjacent to the Diplomatic Quarter since the district only comes in that pack.
     
  8. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    For Great Prophets, remember to just keep it simple:

    Move evangelize and launch inquisition to Great Prophets, and make them a double-strength Apostle (or other "Super-Apostle" mechanic). Simple, effective. And then you can expand the list of names to include all of the Great Prophets (except the ones whose religion prevents them from being depicted). Imagine Martin Luther and Martin Luther King, Jr. as Great Prophets. (If Rock Bands can be religious, then ANY iconic influencer can be a Great Prophet!)

    And the UN could be simple: Accumulate 50% more Diplomatic Influence or Reduce Diplomatic Influence Costs by 50%.
     
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  9. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon King

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    Or after establishing final religion unlock Saints with additional powers.
     
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  10. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I wonder if, in planning NFP, they left the last one flexible. If it sells well, they'll put in a new obscure civ that will surprise everyone and save a big name for the next season; if the bigwigs decide against another season, they'll finish this one of with a fan favorite.

    So the wonders may not match with the civ at all. Or could also be flexible - e.g., put in Statue of Zeus if it's the last pack; save it and add an artist's personal favorite if there's more to come.
     
  11. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    Interesting theory!
     
  12. Giskler

    Giskler +1 Sleuthing

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    Ethiopia is a crazy powerhouse. Maya interesting, but slightly annoying with the malus for founding cities far away. Haven't tried Gran Colombia yet :)
     
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  13. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    For a time, I was pretty sure that the devs had multiple civs at different stages of completion in the pipeline. But then we started getting recycled leader animations and I think it's more likely that they are only developing eight civs at a time. :/

    Also, as attractive as this hypothesis is to me, I'm not sure if they would have to plan more for a second season than just the last DLC pack. If their remaining "return/replace" slots amount to eight (Maya, Ethiopia, Portugal, Byzantium, Assyria, Venice, Morocco, Shoshone) and they want to evenly divide those up between season passes to keep an even spread of old (or old-ish) vs. new civs (4:4), then they would have to commit to making some combination of DLCs 3, 5, 6 have a 2:2 ratio of old/new civs; i.e. DLCs 3 and 5 would have to contain a 2:1 or 1:2 ratio to accommodate a new or old civ respectively.

    Basically, I think in most instances we would have to see indications of a planned season 2 well before DLC 6, because there's only one scenario I can imagine which would fit that description: replacing one of the last two "must-haves" in DLC 6 with a "lesser" returning/replacement civ. I.e.:

    DLC 3 and DLC 5 contain "Portugal" and two new civs. (conversely, Byzantium).

    DLC 6 is planned to have an Assyria/Maghreb/Italy civ as a fourth "returning/replacing" civ as opposed to a strictly new civ, but the devs are prepared to pivot toward "Byzantium". (conversely, Portugal).

    With a plan like this, the devs would be able to "complete" the game if necessary with Maya, Ethiopia, Portugal, and Byzantium (along with four completely new civs), while just accepting that civs in Mesopotamia, the Maghreb, Italy, and the western US just weren't important enough to make the cut this time. But if they wanted to they would also have the flexibility to extend development while keeping a fairly even spread of strictly returning civs (at least 3 in the first pass with one heavy hitter, at least 2 in the second pass with one heavy hitter) while also keeping a strict 4:4 ratio of old vs. new regions represented.

    The biggest questions for me are do the devs have eight wholly new regions that they are looking at which could justify two seasons? And do they have enough creativity left to make those civs feel unique? With respect to the first question, I think they could, but only barely: GC, Vietnam, Burma, Bulgaria, Oman, Timurids make six large unoccupied regions, and then maybe some stretching to find two other American/African/European candidates. With respect to the second question, the civ designs are still fairly conservative and nowhere near as weird as Venice or the Huns were in V; but so far in NFP we have a unique-but-not-crazy design (Ethiopia), a failed, incoherent attempt at weird design (Maya), and a pretty lazy, bottom-of-the barrel concept (GC). I don't know what to make of that, whether the devs haven't yet explored the potential of VI, or if they have already run out of ideas. :/
     
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  14. marius_kaparius

    marius_kaparius Warlord Supporter

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    Instead of the penalty for the far-away cities maybe Maya should just get a small % bonus to a city for every city center that is 4 tiles away? This would still encourage a tight clusters without using a penalty and make decent coastal empires and good colonies possible.
     
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  15. Killer Rabbit

    Killer Rabbit Chieftain

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    I’d really like to see a representation of classic modernist architecture. We don’t have that many late game wonders in the first place and modernism was so influential.

    I said this in another wonders thread, but I think that the Bauhaus building in Dessau would be a great candidate. It’s an iconic structure and the birthplace of the International Style that influenced architecture well into the 1980s.

    Plus it’s a representation of Weimar-era German culture, which was in and of itself hugely influential and is a major part of the German cultural legacy to this day. In general it’s disappointing that the cultural side of German history is often overlooked in Civ terms in favor of militarism.

    Back to the wonder, given that the Bauhaus movement was all about industrial design and mass production, maybe it could give a boost toward T3 buildings you’ve already constructed? Or give some type of boost toward building other late game wonders?

    Just spitballing here!
     
  16. Foxforch

    Foxforch Chieftain

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    Am quite sure they saved Byzantines for last just to tease
     
  17. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    I think the game modes will not be totally new mechanics like plague or corporations, but more like new takes and twists to things already in the game.

    Like Apocalypse mode is disasters but crazier.

    Secret societies is same for governors.

    Alternate Economy (that was mentioned in files) sounds like a new take on trade or resources.

    I feel that the chinese screenshot of a unit with modifiers Renown and Lifespan are from a game mode that changes combat. Like maybe every unit has a lifespan so you or ai dont have some obsolete catapults in later era. For Renown I have no idea. We shall see.

    I am curious for the dlc#3 game mode requiring either of expansions, so there is possibly loyalty or golden/dark ages involved.
     
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  18. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I think what we (tentatively) know so far is this:
    • Twitter Hints. Anton has said on Twitter that the next two Game Modes will be "Historical" and will be more "organic" changes to the game that you might leave on. He's also said some Game Modes will "mess" with loyalty.

    • September DLC Game Mode requires RnF or GS. If the Game Mode requires RnF or GS, then that means it basically leverages mechanics that were introduced in RnF. So, September DLC Game Mode will likely do something with Loyalty, Eras / Golden Ages and / or Governors.

    • Alternate Economy Game Mode. It's been leaked that Kubla Khan will be alt leader for China and Mongolia (almost certainly with the January DLC) and there will be an Alternate Economy Mode (maybe with that DLC, maybe not) (link). No idea what this will be, and AE Mode may just be the internal name.

    • Military Game Mode. Some early Screenshots suggests there might be a Game Mode where Military Units get new stats like Renown and Lifespan (link).

    • Other Game Modes only require Vanilla. The other Game Modes don't seem to require RnF or GS, i.e. only require Vanilla, so I guess that means we won't get anything that tweaks the World Congress, or Loyalty / Governors / Ages, or Power or Strategic Resources.

    • Other stuff we're getting. One more District with two Buildings. Also City States and Great People. Last DLC has Wonders. [Edit: September DLC also has Wonders.]

    • Stuff we don't seem to be getting. NFP summary doesn't refer to units, or new Governors or new Resources. Community Updates don't seem like they'll provide anything of the sort either, given the summaries only suggest maps, scenarios and balance changes (although we did get a new game mode and there were new units in the Red Dead Update...)

    • Other Stuff. Firaxis removed the old Work Ethic mechanic (+1% Production per Pop, Max 15%). I wonder if that mechanic might make it back into the game somewhere else? Vampire Castles Mechanic also seems like a good fit for Portuguese Feitoria mechanic. I could also see something else using the you get x yield = to y% of some other yield mechanic - just seems like too good a mechanic not to do more with.
    Some very tepid predictions:
    • September DLC. I'm guessing the Game Mode will do something with Loyalty, but probably not anything as expansive as Ideology. Either that, or it might be some other mechanic, that just happens to also leverage e.g. Governors or Ages.

    • Other Game Modes. Sadly, based on the last two game modes, I think any future Game Modes will prove to be quite limited and are unlikely to add much depths or more significant mechanics. And they certainly won't do anything with mechanics from RnF or GS given only the September update requires those Expansions, so the scope of these Game Modes really is going to be incredibly limited. Frustrating, but it is what it is. That said, I'd still be surprised if we don't get something that changes trade and / or introduces Corporations, just because it's something people have asked for and isn't likely to be hard to do as a fairly modest mechanic. I think Plagues are 50:50. I'd thought FXS might use Game Modes to introduce more empire management / wide mechanic / make happiness more important, but I'd have thought that would necessarily interact with Loyalty and Governors etc., so presumably not given those mechanics aren't being used for later DLC.

    • Colonial District. I'm guessing the next District is something to do with Colonial Cities and Trade. Maybe something where the District gives you yields based on how many Colonial Cities you have, or particular Districts or Buildings on Foreign Continents, or even how many Continents you've spread to (bit like England's Pax B ability).

    • Wonders. New Wonders are saved for the last DLC. Is that significant? Probably not. I could see new Wonders maybe being a bit different to existing ones, e.g. maybe Three Tile Wonders, or Wonders linked to specific Governments. But I think it's unlikely. Probably they'll just be more Wonders like we have. I think you can bet on Statute of Zeus being a Wonder. [Edit: doh! Also Wonders next DLC.]

    • New Units and stuff like that. I don't think we'll get any new base game units, except specifically as part of Game Modes. So, I can't see any Unit Gaps getting filled. So yeah, no Trebuchet. Nothing for Governors, except maybe if Vietnam or another Civ comes with a new Governor. No big shake ups to Religion, or Spies or anything like that.

    • NFP the Damp Squib? I think some people have been a bit harsh about NFP. The vitriol about Vampires seems particularly misplaced. I’m not another person dumping on NFP. It’s okay. Quite good in places. Sort of cute. I think overall I'll end up liking what it adds to the game. It will fill a few small gaps (Maize! Huzzah! Shuffled Techs. Huzzah!). It'll add some flavourful new mechanics. The new Civs have been uniformly really good, and I don't think that will change. Particularly excited to get an Alt Leader for China. But NFP is also likely to be underwhelming for anyone looking for some core mechanics from Civ V etc. getting brought back to the game, anyone wanting existing mechanics (particularly those from RnF or GS) to get significantly expanded, anyone looking for real additional depth, or anyone looking for Trebuchets.

    • ...A Third Expansion? To me, the game will finish up still feeling like it needs a solid Third Expansion to really develop some of the RnF and GS mechanics and flesh out the End Game. But nothing so far suggests FXS have any interest in doing that, or trying to use NFP or later season passes as a backdoor expansion. Indeed, FXS solution to the End Game seems to be just to enable players to avoid it - either by giving them so many Governor Titles and Yields that they get to Space Ports before they get to Water Mills, or if they do end up at the end of the Tech Tree then they can just stomp their opponents with GDRs and Rockbands. In other words, if you're looking for longer, thoughtful, strategic games, you're likely out of luck, because FXS are focused on faster, looser games that you just power through.
    Oh dear. I seem to have become Old Man Shouts at Clouds.

    TLDR; we're getting something with loyalty and maybe corporations; not getting Brave New World or Trebuchets. And Vampires are here to stay.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  19. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Several small speculations/wishes based on @acluewithout's observation:

    Coincidentally, I thought about the same thing earlier today, and wonder if it can be re-added as a buff of tall-play (say if it has a larger percentage boost), since playing tall is been addressed a little recently (diplo quarter, vampire castle?, and tweaking gov. plaza in this patch - probably a tweak of Audience Chamber which is a weak building but designed for tall play).

    IIRC, in civ5, Portuguese Feitoria is an improvement that can be only build in city-states in order to collect luxuries; while Vampire Castle is far more powerful and have a strict building limit. If that is the case, I wonder how will a similar limit be applied to a colonial trading post - is it possible to make an improvement has a limit number per foreign continent?

    An idea I would love to see, although I think they already implemented a very similar idea in the game via Casa de contratación. The Colonial District is simply a stronger version of Casa. (I personally prefer vassals/puppets like in V).
     
  20. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I think the old Work Ethic mechanic could be used to revise e.g. Rationalism type cards. For example, instead of +50% building yields for 10 Pop and another +50% for +3 adjacency, those cards could instead give say +1% per Pop and +1% per Adjacency (perhaps further restricted to only those Cities with a Governor or with a relevant T3 Building).

    Anyway. Only a thought. Just seemed to me that the old Work Ethic mechanic could be put to better use in a few different places in the game. It would be great if this upcoming Community Update did look at Buildings and Rationalism-type cards more generally and not just Government Plaza, but I'm quite doubtful that will be the case.

    I see them working quite differently. Indeed, they would be the opposite of each other.

    I think the difference between the CdC and a "Colonial District" is that, while the CdC buffs Colonial Cities themselves, the Colonial District would instead give a bonus to the City that has the Colonial District based on e.g. how many Colonial Cities you have. So, you could build a Colonial District in your Capital (i.e. on your Home Continent), and then that City would receive yields / buffs based on how many Colonial Cities you've established.

    The problem with Colonial Cities is that, if you settle them after the mid game, they're pretty close to useless notwithstanding all the Colonial City buffs. The reason is that, even with all those buffs, mid game Cities just aren't usually useful. The most you'll get is just some more Cities that are "as good" as the ones you founded before turn 100 but they have less time to provide any ROI. As a result, there's just no point founding Colonial Cities unless you do it very early in the game or you're roleplaying.

    But, if Colonial Cities buffed an existing City you'd founded earlier in the game, then there might be a bit more value founding Colonial Cities because you'd at least be further enhancing a key already productive City (presumably your Pingala City etc.).

    Alternatively, I could see a Colonial District giving you e.g. Diplo Favour based on how many Colonial Cities you have (i.e. an empire wide benefit). But I guess not, because Diplo Favour is a GS mechanic, and the district won't use that mechanic. Still, it could maybe provide an empire wide effect around Trade Routes or Trade Route Yields.
     

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