Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.
just couldn't resist
\You certainly got this part right!
That's glorious. Well done!
Have to say, I'm a little disappointed in the Modes so far.
What I wanted was new, toggleable light-duty features. Perhaps not as integrated as an expansion feature, but importantly, new. Like vassalage, Corporations, disease outbreaks, etc.
What all these modes seem to be is an existing feature either taken to an extreme or twisted. Apocalypse Mode is just GS's disasters taken to the extreme. Secret Societies is governors twisted. Random Tech and Civic Trees are just the randomized aspect of the Future Era spread throughout. Dramatic Ages is just the RNF Ages system taken to the extreme.
If the other 3 modes (1 an alternate economy and another apparently manipulating units, based on that Chinese screenshot) are just variations on existing features, I'm a little let down.
What Chinese screenshot?
IMHO the gamemodes are probably designed to play with existing features. (IIRC @acluewithout has a more developed argument on this.) I don't have knowledge in programming but it seems to me that monthly updates will not equal to significant changes in core game mechanics.
Not sure about the "alternate economy" though, "alternate" seems to imply something actually new.
Edit: Speaking of Vassalage and Corporations, if they are implemented at this stage, I would image the former as similar to the current CS mechanism (cities with limited interactions but give you bonuses/gold like in Civ 5), and the later as similar to the current religion mechanism (you can spread it like religion). But whether many players will be satisfied with an implementation like these is another question.
Yeah, I was hoping they were going to be additive features that were designed to be toggled so that Firaxis didn't have to worry about balancing. Instead, we're just getting modes that you can toggle because they're wacky twists. I like that we're getting more official civs and the modes are fun, but I'm also disappointed. The modes are only one step up from scenarios for me.
Yeah, I would have preferred them to be a little less over the top. Like, the random techs/civics is a perfect mode (bugs aside), since it changes things up, leads to new twists, but I could certainly imagine wanting it turned off.
Secret societies has a flaw to me that it's just a little over the top. The bonuses are just too strong, and to me dictate too much of the game. Although I think if they were essentially balanced around the level of the Hermetic Order, and didn't immediately give you 4 governor titles, I'd be much more in favour of them. Like with the Hermetic order, essentially early you get a somewhat interesting mini-game to plan your empire around, then in the medieval you get a nice but not super OP bonus, and then later on, you potentially get some game-changing tiles, that to me would be somewhat fairly balanced if all 4 orders were similar to that. But as it stands now, voidsingers just gets stupid crazy in what you're able to do with them later in the game. I mean, I guess I can just play games manually putting in rules to not use or abuse them, but I'm definitely not sure I want to keep that option on for my next game.
Yes, all modes are just overhauled existing features. I would add one more thing. After the first two of them Anton made statement about the next ones as more historical ones. I think the proper words would be "more historical than the two first ones" or "less fantastical than the two first ones" but still "less historical than the core game". Random Trees lead to strange ahistorical situations and Dramatic Ages could not happen in reality because there are always normal ages between golden and dark ones. Yes, the game is fun, but to keep it as historical as possible the optional modes have to be disabled.
Yeah, if I didn’t originally get the NF Pass for mainly the civs, and actually got it for the game modes I’d be extremely disappointed too, although, I was hoping for more modes like you were that were actually different than what we are currently getting.
Although a little off topic at least in relation to this current topic this thread is discussing, does anyone find the Teddy’s from the Persona pack’s really overpowered? I haven’t ran into them in my RaF and GS games, but I have ran into one of them in my two Base game ruleset games. And both of those games the respective Teddy in that game had over 150 more science, than the next closest Civ and was in sending satellites into space while every one else was in late renaissance or early industrial era on Prince Difficulty
That video from 2K China where the unit had renown and lifespan numbers in the interface.
Not sure if someone already posted it somewhere, but there is once again a private video in the NFP playlist. So likely the next bit of info will drop tomorrow.
Makes perfect sence, there are two first look videos to come and the DLC is coming next week. So one first look tomorrow and one on tuesday. Also a live stream on wednesday
One of the first looks.
Same here, I want vassalage, corporations and better pop specialists. We know there's an economic mode coming, so, following the pessimist train, what twist will we get on existing trade routes? maybe you can force civs to trade only with you? creating economic blocks?...no that one sounded less like a twist and more like a feature..
yeah I want to stay optimistic, but so far only shuffle and dramatic ages seem like they change the game without derailing it completely (and DA might as well derail it too), I really hope they are saving the best modes for last...
Byzantines, so Gaul can be the Super Hype for Tuesday.
Hard to say. They revealed more about Gaul in the preview video than they did about Byz. That tends to indicate the Byz design is something they're going to hold out for the week-of-release hype.
Probable leader: Ambiorix
UU: spearman or warrior, Gaul starts with them
UD: probable IZ replacement with ranged attack
Abilities: mines on resources culture bomb, +1 culture on (all?) mines, some sort of adjacency bonus for TSs from mines
UU is Dromon, seems to be a melee naval unit with ranged attack
Leader might be Basil II
It has a UD of some sort
Dual domination/religious focus
Actually they said game modes will be "cherry on top" not a big mechanic. So I am not surprised. I still see the possibilities that this approach could be interesting. Even with reused mechanics. What comes to my mind:
1. Great Politicians/Philosophers mode. Adding a new great person the great politician/philosopher. Addressing the lack of late-game ideologies. GP earned from the Government district. Activating GP gives new powerful an empire-wide bonus with a downside like Dark Era Cards. Example Maximilian Robespierre: +1 gold from farms and +4 loyalty in all cities but -5% religion and decreased relations with civilizations with Monarchy and Theocracy (just an example concept)
2. Improvement luxuries mode. Addressing lack of corporations and financial win (a little bit) New crafted luxury resources can be put into slots in various buildings (using Great Works mechanic) New civil unit - craftsman which requires workshop. Craftsman has one charge and can produce crafted luxury. You can choose one from three crafted luxuries (similar like apostle). Luxuries to choose are random. Each luxury provides different bonuses. Example Pottery +2 food + 1 housing; Books +2 science +1 culture; Glassware +2 amenities - Jewelry +4 gold Crafted luxuries assigned to market building gives +2 gold instead of their bonus - so you can reduce the RNG effect and have a flat gold bonus instead
3. Diplomatic League mode: Improves Diplomatic victory (a little bit It needs real revamp). Using Spy mechanic and UI. You grain Diplomat after complete a Diplomatic quarter, diplomatic quarter buildings, discovering Diplomatic Service civic, and reach the time you reach level 3 alliance. You can sen diplomat for missions to AI with an established embassy. Diplomat missions like spy ones have a probability of success. Diplomats can be promoted like spies. Example of Diplomatic Missions - reduce grievances, improve a relationship, reduce loyalty pressure, use AI 1 vote in World Congress
Bonus (improved diplomatic victory) - Keep in mind this is a concept so it is, unpolished, unbalanced, and with provisional naming
1. Each WC Sessions has two phases: Phase 1: voting for the Security Council in the next WC (three Civs, number of Civs in Security Council depends on map size) Phase 2: voting on resolutions for current WC
2. Voting for Security Council: (1 Civilization and CS = 1 vote) CS votes like their sovereign. CS without sovereign abstains. Civilizations with a largest number of votes are included in the Security Council.
3. Choosing Resolutions: Each Civilization in Security Council chooses one resolution to be voted by all Civilizations in the next WC (without CS)
4. Voting on current Resolutions: (chosen on previous WC by members of the Security Council) Number of votes depends on a) number of Diplomats Civilization have 1 diplomat = 1 vote, b) Government: up from Tier 3 Governments +1 vote. c) Additional votes can be bought by Diplomatic Favor (1 extra vote = 500 Diplomatic Favor) and are added permanently to your vote pool. After buying a vote this way you start to collect Diplo Favor from the beginning unless you collect 500 again (or more. it may scale each next vote become more expensive). CS does not vote in this phase.
5. Victory points. If the resolution proposed by you (previously elected to the Security Council) pass you grain 2 Diplomatic Victory Points If you voted for a won resolution proposed by AI you grain 1 Diplomatic Victory Point
6. Diplomats. You will send diplomats to other Civs for two kinds of missions a) offensive mission (convince AI to vote for the Resolution you proposed) b) intelligence missions (gather the clues how Civilization will vote for the resolution proposed by AI) this is the way to hunt for VP if you are not in the Security Council.
7. Passive missions. To know how other Civilizations will vote in the next WC you use your diplomats to gather the clues in a passive mission. The clues are like "Civilization A will vote similar to Civilization C on 2. resolution". From gathered clues, you must figure out how the voting will look like in a logic minigame. The more clues you gather the easier you can solve a voting puzzle. The number of clues you earn depends on the number of diplomats, their experience, and... luck. But you can play around this RNG choosing a longer mission but with a higher probability of success, or a shorter mission with a lower probability of success. It is up to you how you manage time between WC.
8. AI earns 2 VP if is chosen for the Security Council. Ai does not earn VP for voting for the wining ressolution.
9. Only you may choose a resolution that takes away VP
10. VP for World Wonders, Emergencies, Aid requests, etc rest as they are
11. Conquering capital city and CS always takes away 2 VP. You do not lose VP if the conquered city is returned to their previous owner.
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