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[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    Big jawed Kublai incoming.
     
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  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Don't be too quick to rule out that we're getting Louisiana ruled by Louis Armstrong, nicknamed "Satchmo" for "satchel mouth." :mischief:
     
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  3. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Kublai does have a big jaw - in all the illustrations of him, that is - and Macro Polo also described him as a round-faced, chucky man.

    In addition, to quote a weird connection between MouthBag and East Asia made by me:
     
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  4. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis King

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    I think you are absolutely on to something here. That's too on the nose to be a coincidence.
     
  5. Potworny

    Potworny Warlord

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    That's quite an impressive observation, I think that we should perhaps check whether the other depot names translate into any compound/hybrid/amalgamated word in any of the languages of the suspected civs? I mean, if there's one directly translated compound noun in those names, there could be more?
     
  6. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I'm going to start calling people "mouthbag" to win internet arguments
     
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  7. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Pokémon must be mouthbag monsters.
     
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  8. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    You are right, the traditional and unofficial translation of Pokémon in China was literally 口袋妖怪 (pocket monsters). Currently we use Nintendo's official translation (which is basically a transliteration - baokemeng 宝可梦) and don't use that word anymore.
     
  9. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    @ 8housesofelixir what is the map on your avatar?
     
  10. notNamed

    notNamed Warlord

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    It's a Chinese map of the world published in (Fǎjiè ānlì tú) 法界安立图, Ming Dynasty, done in Buddhist tradition (the human realm is a continent/Jambudvīpa enclosed by sea and usually a bit more focused on India itself).
    And yes, it is a real map. If you look at the rightmost side, you get 4 named islands. It's 高麗 (Goryeo), 三韓 (Samhan), 倭国 (Kingdom of Wa - Japan), 琉球 (Ryuukyuu) and one more unnamed, which is obviously Taiwan. Another familiar sight going from the right-top edge of the continent should be 北奴匈 (Xiongnu (dominated) north) and 城長 (Long Wall) underneath it with the visible cranellations. Han and Yangtze rivers as well as the Chinese province names. The bottom of the map is composed of East, Central, Southern, Northern and Western India with its own traditional names like 曲女 (Kannauj). The central mountains are, of course, the Himalayas and in the middle of those is lake Anavatapta. But I'll let him explain more of it. Like, say, the Female Kingdom (女国) hidden just above the point 信度 (Indus) river in the lower left enters the sea.
    Spoiler :

     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  11. Chekko

    Chekko Warlord

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    Mouthbag makes me think of Attila in Civ 5.
     
  12. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Basically Yes. To be precise, this is a type of map called 南瞻部洲圖 (the map of Jambudvīpa) in Chinese and Japanese traditions.* It can be understand as the Mappa Mundi or T-O Map of the East Asian Buddhism.

    *For another Chinese map belongs to this type that can easily found on the internet, please search 四海华夷總圖; for a Japanese version, please search 南瞻部洲万国掌菓之図.

    As the name suggests, the map is loosely based on the Buddhist world view of Jambudipa, which in turn based on the ancient Indian understanding of the Eurasia continent - ancient Indians knew that they were in the South, China was on their East, Persia was on their West, steppe people was on their north, these four regions surrounded the mountainous region (Himalayas/Pamir) in the middle. Therefore their concept of the world is a shield-shaped continent, with India on its southern side, Persia on its western side, China on its eastern side, steppe on its northern side, great mountains in the center.

    On the other hand, the Chinese scholars/mapmakers didn't have the knowledge of the entire Indian geographical concept, so they incorporated Chinese geographical knowledge into this type of map. All the features and markers on the map are from Chinese geographical traditions; the Japanese version of the map has Japanese geographical traditions on it as well.

    For instance, the map had India divided into 5 regions, East, Central, Southern, Northern, and Western: this particular categorization is actually based on Great Tang Records on the Western Regions (大唐西域記), the travel notes of the great Buddhist translator Xuanzang. Nearly all the city, place, and state names on this map outside China proper are based on the Xuanzang's travel notes, including strange names such as the Female Realm (女国) - Xuanzang did mention an Amazon-like all-warrior-women tribe in his notes.

    Basically, this is a Buddhism Mappa Mundi with Indian forms and Chinese substances.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  13. Andrew Johnson [FXS]

    Andrew Johnson [FXS] Warlord

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    Fair point. In our defense:

    - Nika Revolts were a bit before Basil's time and didn't seem to fit any of the categories of achievements.
    - I do follow some European comic/pop culture (hej, moomin!), but Asterix hasn't really come over.

    I see the Fandom site has mis-attributed the "city ever-shining" reference (as they have with the "no light without the dark" and "things fall apart"... kinda). Anyone got it?
     
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  14. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    The "shining city upon a hill" from the Sermon on the Mount?

    "No light without the dark" is such a common expression that I couldn't venture to guess, but for some reason it makes me think of "Dancing in the Dark." :p I admit Chinua Achebe would be my only thought about "Things Fall Apart," though.
     
  15. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

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    Basil + "things fall apart" => Fawlty Towers
     
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  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I guess Basil II conquering Preslav was a little too easy to come up with or controversial. :mischief:
     
  17. Andrew Johnson [FXS]

    Andrew Johnson [FXS] Warlord

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    I think Basil had just enough Bulgar-killing in his representation here. There were a bunch of "you'll put your eye out" jokes that I self-censored, too.

    But the "city ever-shining" is the city of Ayodhya, in the Ramayana, predating the Sermon on the Mount by just a few centuries. It was mis-attributed to Ronald Reagan (who, of course, got it from that guy speaking on that hill down in the Near East). The light-and-dark bit was attributed to Twin Peaks which, while great, was quite more of a deep cut than the Harry Potter reference that I thought it was. "Things Fall Apart" is of course the title of that devastating critique of colonialism by Achebe, but he's getting the quote from Yeats.
     
  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    I knew the title was from Yeats, but somehow I didn't even think about the source. It's been a few years since I've read Yeats...Though, to be fair, it's been never since I've read Achebe; I only know him by reputation. :p
     
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  19. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    If there was a Harry Potter reference I would have pointed that out for sure. :p

    To me it sounds more like a Game of Thrones reference though: "Shadow's cannot live in the dark."
     
  20. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    If it were a Game of Thrones reference I'd expect it to be more along the lines of a lot of expletives and a denial of the existence of light. :p
     
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