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[NFP] Civilization VI: New Frontier Pass Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

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    Reading all this thread, I cannot but realize that Firaxis managed pretty well their business model.

    I read a lot of people here saying "I only uses X mode in a pretty permanent state, but the rest doesn't fit me...". Except that X is never the same: Secret Societies, Dramatic Ages, Shuffle, Heroes&Legends, Monopolies & Corporations... Except for Apocalypse that might have passed under my radar, each and every mode became, for different players, a definitive part of their games.

    And wasn't that what they wanted? That each player could played what he wanted, without needing to be burdened with unwanted features?

    If they had done a true expansion, then some players would have been stuck with mechanics they don't like, but forced to use them if they wanted to enjoy what they liked.

    We cannot but recognized that they achieve their goals: that each game was fitted for each player with games and rules and mechanics adapted for their playstyles without having to impose to every players heavy and gamechanging core mechanics they didn't liked.

    Be disappointed or sad or melancholic all you want with the NFP, but they announced something, and they fulfilled their promise: new toppings for the game, for each and every taste.
     
  2. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    I wholeheartedly agree with your statement here.

    The Modes are an ingenious way to implement Game Mechanics that others may like, but others don't. While some may say it's a lack of confidence in these Modes being popular, I disagree. As you said, every player has their own tastebuds for different flavors, a.k.a. Game Mechanics. Firaxis knows this and has tailored the NFP so that you don't have to buy the whole thing to get the Modes you want. You just one or two Packs that you like without having to pay the whole cost. Plus, the only thing you miss out on when not buying the whole NFP is two Persona Packs, so not much to lose if you don't the whole NFP.
     
  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Not to mention the Shuffle mode is free for anybody who owns the game, not just NFP.

    I might not play all the game modes regularly but I've enjoyed all the other content such as the civs, leaders, districts, wonders, city-states etc. that make the whole thing a worthwhile purchase to me.
     
  4. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I have no problems with certain modes not being my cup of tea (Apokalypse for sure, Heroes likely) - yes, I payed for them buying the entire NFP - but as you said...it is part of the "topping" concept that not necessarily everything will appeal to anyone.

    If I have something to criticise, it is the implementation of some of the modes I like from their overall theme - this ranged from debatable design decisions (e.g. I would prefer Dramatic Ages with Normal ages and a different mechanic for determining the number of defecting cities...but ok - they did it that way) to - and that is more annyoing - bugs and AI flaws. AIs not using properly using Cultists or failing with taking back free cities detracts quite a bit from the fun those modes offer.
     
  5. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Though I'd like Normal Ages ages as well, it wouldn't feel very Dramatic at the same time, which is supposed to be the point of the game mode. :p

    But that's probably why I haven't gotten around to trying to play Apocalypse or Dramatic Ages because they feel like they'd be a little too extreme and random. At least with SS and Heroes you have a choice on who to pick.
     
  6. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    I think the biggest problem with NFP is the monthly release cycle. Firaxis is still playing catch up with bugs and other issues and most of the game modes fell like they are like 90% complete and could some more development time for balance issues and whatnot. Some of the modes feel slight comparatively and not always properly integrated into the game. Secret Societies needs more mid and late game governor titles, Dramatic Ages is way too punishing to the AI on some lower difficulties, Monopolies focus on tourism honestly feels like a bait and switch to me, and so on. Hindsight is 20/20 but I feel three to four releases would have been preferable to the 12 we are currently getting.
     
    mitsho likes this.
  7. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    Yep. They went from too much silence to updates every month.

    Regular updates are without a doubt a positive change, but I feel every two months would be more manageable. Not only to them, but to me! I'm a bit slow and I've rarely finished a game ever since NFP started. I haven't even bothered starting an Epic Speed game this year.

    I would be delighted with two months as a best case scenario. Anything longer than four months is pretty slow though. So updates every 2-4 months is really the spot in my view.
     
    Nerevatar, bbbt and 8housesofelixir like this.
  8. Myomoto

    Myomoto King

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    My main problem is that I don't genuinely feel like civ 6 is in an optimal place, so adding toppings to something that in and of itself is not satisfying doesn't fix the issue.

    If I felt like civ 6 was living up 100% to its potential, I would be all for these little odd modes to add some pizazz from time to time. However, I feel like the game is severely in need of a thorough tune-up from top to bottom, and with some few additional mechanics to really make the late game interesting.

    BNW achieved exactly this for what many found was still a fairly 'middle of the road game' in civ 5 Gods & Kings.

    So my main point of disappointment is in seeing the reluctance of Firaxis to really try to aggressively rebalance systems in the free updates. This is coupled with extremely buggy releases that break major aspects of the game for months (seriously, for how long was the great work heist spy mission broken?), and finally how few of the released modes actually seem to address problems in the current game, rather than just add a lot of extremely poorly balanced fluff (most of which the AI can't handle).
     
  9. Nerevatar

    Nerevatar Warlord

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    If I could like this 10 times I would. This is like taken straight from my head, it is uncanny. I would throw any amount of money at Firaxis if this was the route of NFP instead of what we got. Sure, I will probably get around to playing it, but out of principle I refuse to pay full price.
     
  10. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    A think a more fundamental problem is that nowadays "new" is just more attractive to companies that "old but better" even if most customers would prefer the later, hence NFP - a year of new. I think if Firaxis is going to do more new content for Civ6 then a massive balance update is probably coming at some point but there is no way to know if that is going to happen. I personally think that more Civ6 is likelier that Civ7 at this point given that constant updates is definitely a big trend in games right now but, again, no way to know for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
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  11. Buktu

    Buktu Prince

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    A balance update for around 2/3 of all civs is already confirmed for april.
     
  12. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    I was mostly thinking about game mechanics and various issues related to the AI. Even with all the power creep in NFP I think like 90% of the civs are fine as is and only a few really need some work. Like the Khmer need either some Holy Site adjacency on rivers or extra Great Prophet points not a complete rework or overhaul.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  13. Buktu

    Buktu Prince

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    I dont expect alot of reworks/overhauls in the balance upadte. Maybe some but most of the civs are getting some numbers changed I guess.
    Also I dont think there will be a massive balance change for game mechanics after the civ update. It just does not make sense for me to balance all civs for the current rules and then change the rules again. If we are lucky we might get some balance changes for mechanics until/in april as well though.
     
  14. InsidiousMage

    InsidiousMage Prince

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    Like I said, I only think that is going to happen if there is another expansion or something because would badly need it. There are still too many things from the base game that feel out of place or underdeveloped compared to all of the new stuff and that problem would only be compounded by any new releases.
     
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  15. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    After playing a ton of Maya, I have a simply request:

    Give Maya the ability to move capitals through a project, like Phoenicia, but it must be to a city in the same continent as the previous capital (perhaps at a cost of two population?)

    That way you don't need to spend a ton of turns in the early game to find a spot to settle your capital. It's particularly bad when you spawn too close to coast, or too close to the northern or southern edges of the map. I think that would be both thematic and useful to maximise its 6-tile range.
     
  16. IvoryPavane

    IvoryPavane Prince

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    l do love that idea but it would be nice to keep that a distinct Phoenician benefit. But I did have have an idea for both Maya and Phoenicia


    — Phoenicia: when you complete the move capital project, you may build a new government plaza (the cost of project is quite prohibitive but an extra set of Gov buildings and associated trade routes is quite a powerful incentive)
    — Maya: Spawn with 4 tiles of vision to allow them to see where the best spot is early. City with palace gains housing as if on water.
     
  17. Chekko

    Chekko Warlord

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    I think every Civ should be able to move capitals but maybe only have it as a limited thing, like 2 moves or something and unable to move during war. Also apart from some policies, envoys and governments, do Capitals give any sort of bonus?
     
  18. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    I believe there's a mod that allows you to change your Capital to the City with the Government Plaza.

    They have the Palace, but that's it.
     
  19. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    I suggested when Phoenicia came out, and I will repeat here: move capital project should be a “bonus” for dark ages. It fits tematically (when the empire is going wrong, it is most likely you will plan to “renew” by giving a different capitol) and also gameplay-wise (there is a involved risk-benefit due to the loyalty challenges you face). Phoenicia would keep the ability yo move at wish at any time.
     
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  20. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Your reasoning isn't unsound and has plenty of examples to support it, but there are also plenty of counterexamples. Assyria particularly comes to mind as the moves from Aššur to Kalhu, from Kalhu to Dur-Sharrukin, and from Dur-Sharrukin to Nineveh all represent Assyria's growing strength and wealth.
     
    Kimiimaro, Josephias, nzcamel and 3 others like this.

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