[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Hellenized, anyway; whether they were actually Hellenes is very much debated. Based on the linguistic evidence, I'm inclined to suspect they were para-Hellenes (that is, they spoke a language closely related to Greek but not Greek). While Athenians scoffing that someone with the audacity to have a king is no Hellene shouldn't be given much weight, there are features of Macedonian that are hard to explain as just a dialect (in particular, Macedonian didn't have PIE *Bʰ > Pʰ like all varieties of Greek do; instead it had Bʰ > B like Celtic, Balto-Slavic, Albanian, and Iranian).

In a world where Firaxis had infinite development power, Balkanizing Spain and France could be interesting, in which case the Principality of Catalonia might be an option. However, in the real world where there are a finite number of civs (and they're already cutting corners with those), I think there are better things the devs could spend their resources on than Balkanizing Western Europe...

 

I've read that by the time of Phillip and Alexander, tombs excavated there show that the Macedonians were giving each other Greek names. I'm sure there's more to it, but it seems to me that the whole "the Macedonians aren't real Greeks" thing is more a result of a very effective and long lasting propaganda campaign by Athens than anything else.

 

I can only say that you are lucky that you have never been immersed in this kind of troublesome environment.
The Polish leader in the game is actually the leader of Poland and Lithuania. Meanwhile, Vilnius exists as a city-state. But it doesn't offend the actual Poles or Lithuanians. However, if a leader of Kiev Rus is regarded as a new leader of Russian civilization or an independent leader of Kiev Rus, it will obviously cause great controversy.

 

i don’t know what you mean, that’s again not necessarily a controversial move.

It’s not like they’re doing a Biafra civ or something, lol. You’re applying overly unrealistic political expectations on game dev team.

 

I completely agree, though the Crown of Aragon was way more influential than the Principality of Catalonia, which was a part of it.

 

No one's arguing that they weren't Hellenized, but there's good evidence apart from scoffing Athenians that they weren't Hellenes.

 

Isn't it thought of that the Dorians, most notably the Spartans and Corinthians, might have originated from the region of Macedon or further up? Considering Athenians were also really anti-Spartan this could be another reason.

Then again there's speculation as to whether the common people of Macedon ever were fully Hellenized unlike the elites and Alexander himself.

 

isn’t there legitimate evidence to suggest that the common class was illyrian or whatever the classical equivalent of albanians but led by a hellenic ruling class

 

No idea. My interest in the Greeks in general is pretty passing.

That would be awfully far east for the Illyrians. The thought that Albanian could be a descendant of Illyrian is a really fascinating one, but unfortunately the linguistic evidence is rather lacking (Illyrian is just too poorly attested).

 

As far as I know Illyrians, according to the Greeks, are just the name for a vast number of people that lived north of them. I'm don't think the territory of Macedon counted considering Macedonians and the Illyrians had a war between them.
The one thing we do know is the ruling class was definitely Hellenic.

 

Linguistically, Illyrians are the Indo-European people who lived along the northeastern coast of the Adriatic. It's considered fairly likely that their language was related to Messapic in southern Italy. They were never thoroughly Hellenized, but they did end up Romanized. As I said, their language is unfortunately not well attested. The Illyrians are one of those ancient civilizations that would be appealing to have in Civ but are shrouded in too many ambiguities to portray effectively.

 

yeah i know nothing about the Illyrians, I’ve just heard theories that the peasantry of Macedon was Illyrian, since it’s totally possible that solely the ruling class was Hellenic.

I guess the reason why this has come up is because Macedon is separate from Greece in Civ 6, yet the Macedon civ should be part of greece if not for it being solely in the game for Alexander.

A similar case exists with Nubia and Egypt, although those differentiate themselves more

So I think a Chola/India case exists somewhere in between. Not completely the same like Macedon/Greece, but not partially the same/partially different like Nubia/Egypt. Chola/India would be kinds halfway

 

Yeah, I think it's perfectly transparent that Macedon is in the game for Alexander; without him no one would have thought of including them. While Civ6 has way too many Greeks, I will say that I appreciated that the devs availed themselves of an opportunity to portray a more classical Greek civ without being overruled by Alexander's personality cult.

 

yeah, really smart move on the devs’ part to give us more a creative greece. I like it.

 

I for one would welcome Jello Biafra as a gonzo alt-leader for every civ in the game.

 

People also kept complaining that Alexander always represented Greece and pointed out that he was actually Macedonian. Unfortunately at the same time both Gorgo and Alexander coming in as another Greek leader and separate civ didn't sit well with a lot of people. I wasn't one of them though as I like the way they decided to portray both civs.

Maybe if people do keep on complaining about Gandhi things will change. I don't know if they will get rid of Gandhi outright but it at least may break up India a little.

I can also see Alexander going back to Greece because of the backlash of Macedon as it's own separate civ. Maybe he would at least be the militaristic leader of Greece if they do multiple leaders again instead of one from Sparta.

 

this is because a lot of casual fans and armchair historians don’t recognize that macedon was a kingdom ruled by hellenic leaders, if not hellenic or at minimum hellenicized in and of itself

 

I suppose we have no idea when the September civs will be announced? I know that we knew Ethiopia pack was coming in July since May, but I'm wondering if maybe from now on each civ won't be revealed until the first look video? Although in the case of Ethiopia the first look was only a week before the dlc launched, maybe they would first want more time to build up excitement.

 

Just as my own guess, around the time they're plugging the August patch

 

I hope they reveal one during the august patch update and then keep the other under wraps until its first look to make us look forward to that reveal, plus the reveal of one will make a fun prediction game for the other.