[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[PhoenicianGold]

haven't heard about this; what are they changing?

The only changes I've heard with respect to the Iroquois and other Native American civs are that they will be using furs instead of gold as currency.

 

[SirMediocrity]

Attila and his Hunnic Empire who founded no cities, created no meaningful political institutions, built no infrastructure, has very murky cultural and religious views, a nearly unattested language, and an economy based, outside animal husbandry, weaponsmithing, and leatherworking, entirely on loot, pillage, plunder, and tribute? The Huns are classical antithesis of the common notion of "civilization," and when Civ2 put "Atilla," as the default name of the "Barbarian Leader," it was well deserved, I'm afraid.

What's your point?

 

[Inawordyes]

You know, it's nice to know that there's a lot of really good historical female figures left to pull from, from both series staples and potential newcomers, that they could introduce into the series. Part of me hopes that, between the rest of this pack and a potential NF2, they do include a more even ratio of male-to-female leaders. There's so many interesting historical leaders, such as:

Sayyida al Hurra (Morocco)
Jigonhsasee (Haudenosaunee/Iroquois)
Puduhepa (Hittites)
Margaret I (Denmark)
Ana Nzinga (Kongo or Angola)
Dihya/Al-Kahina (Berbers/Numidia)
Zenobia (Palmyra)
Teuta (Illyria)
Nanyehi (Cherokee)
Ranavalona I (Madagascar)
Grace O'Malley (Ireland)

All of which would be really interesting to see in the game for me, both for historical accomplishments and for the personality aspect that Civ6 leaned so heavily into (though I heavily doubt we'd get Sayyida, Dihya, Teuta and Grace together, given they're all pirate queens and would probably have similar gameplay mechanics). Getting interesting and "unconventional" ruler picks such as Lady Six Sky and Basil II in this pass so far really gives me hope that if we do get more DLC after this, we'll continue to get good leader options when it comes to the female side.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

You know, it's nice to know that there's a lot of really good historical female figures left to pull from, from both series staples and potential newcomers, that they could introduce into the series. Part of me hopes that, between the rest of this pack and a potential NF2, they do include a more even ratio of male-to-female leaders. There's so many interesting historical leaders, such as:

Sayyida al Hurra (Morocco)
Jigonhsasee (Haudenosaunee/Iroquois)
Puduhepa (Hittites)
Margaret I (Denmark)
Ana Nzinga (Kongo or Angola)
Dihya/Al-Kahina (Berbers/Numidia)
Zenobia (Palmyra)
Teuta (Illyria)
Nanyehi (Cherokee)
Ranavalona I (Madagascar)
Grace O'Malley (Ireland)

All of which would be really interesting to see in the game for me, both for historical accomplishments and for the personality aspect that Civ6 leaned so heavily into (though I heavily doubt we'd get Sayyida, Dihya, Teuta and Grace together, given they're all pirate queens and would probably have similar gameplay mechanics). Getting interesting and "unconventional" ruler picks such as Lady Six Sky and Basil II in this pass so far really gives me hope that if we do get more DLC after this, we'll continue to get good leader options when it comes to the female side.

Arwa al-Sulyahi of Yemen, Shajar al-Durr of Arabia (alt leader presumably), Nur Jahan (Mughals) also stand out as good possibilities

 

[conorbebe]

just saw your pfp and felt the need to emphasize how Basil might be the best looking leader in the game, graphically,

I don't think his beard looks quite right personally. There's something off about the lighting and shadows.

 

[Zaarin]

haven't heard about this; what are they changing?

The only changes I've heard with respect to the Iroquois and other Native American civs are that they will be using furs instead of gold as currency.

They consulted with Native American cultural advisors to update the Native American civilizations. They've changed the names of the Sioux and Iroquois to Lakota and Haudenosaunee, replaced the Fire Pit with a Community Plaza, and replaced gold mining with the fur trade. Wish they'd give the Asian civs some similar love TBH...

 

[8housesofelixir]

Wish they'd give the Asian civs some similar love TBH...

Well a lot of potential (East and Southeast) Asian cultural advisors don't speak English.

 

[Patine]

Well a lot of potential (East and Southeast) Asian cultural advisors don't speak English.

You'd be surprised!

 

[8housesofelixir]

You'd be surprised!

Yep, just speaking from a personal experience.

 

[Patine]

Yep, just speaking from a personal experience.

I'm not sure what kind of experience you have. In East and Southeast Asia today, only North Korea and Laos discourage and limit the learning of English (and other foreign languages), and speaker of such languages are very rare in those two countries. They are, by immense measure, exceptions to the rule in the region, and speaking English (relatively speaking) is quite common in the other nations there. Scholars of culture, like their analogs elsewhere, often also tend to study linguistics as well. Your experience must be very niche.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I'm not sure what kind of experience you have. In East and Southeast Asia today, only North Korea and Laos discourage and limit the learning of English (and other foreign languages), and speaker of such languages are very rare in those two countries. They are, by immense measure, exceptions to the rule in the region, and speaking English (relatively speaking) is quite common in the other nations there. Scholars of culture, like their analogs elsewhere, often also tend to study linguistics as well. Your experience must be very niche.

I just want to say you'd be surprised at the actual knowledge level of English of a great many of Chinese/Taiwanese scholars. Not to say common people. Assuming "speaking English is quite common" is no more than a survivorship bias. And let's end the topic here, this is not the thread for this.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

also we have scholars of SEA even on this chat like @Andrew Johnson [FXS] lol

 

[BuchiTaton]

They consulted with Native American cultural advisors to update the Native American civilizations. They've changed the names of the Sioux and Iroquois to Lakota and Haudenosaunee, replaced the Fire Pit with a Community Plaza, and replaced gold mining with the fur trade. Wish they'd give the Asian civs some similar love TBH...

This is related to CIV6 since after Humankind's and AoE3: DE's Haudenosaunee if "Iroquois" come back to CIV they would be for sure Haudenosaunee (so a "new" civ on the serie like Phoenicians or Gauls ).

I am 100% OK with proper names but we dont need to look far away to found civs that need better representation, "Aztecs" is also a wrong name for either the Triple Alliance or the Mexicas, since:
- Mexicas came from Aztlán, but not all the nahua peoples that came from Aztlán were part of the Triple Alliance, some of the fiercest enemies of the Mexicas were technically also "Aztecs".
- The history of Mexicas emphasize that they rejected being Aztecs after leave Aztlán and turned to be called Mexicas since.
- Everybody from nahuas to europeans until middle 19th century named based on Mexica not on Aztec. In colonial spanish land Mexicanos was of common use to reffer to all the nahuas, and of course this is the reason Mexico city and country have this name. I am sure most people have seen 16th-18th century map referring North America as "Mexican America".

So name the Mexicas "Aztecs" is kind like name English "Germans" and also like name Americans "British". By the way yes the name "Aztecs" is a blob/umbrella term like design on-game Venice and name it "Italians".

If people feel Mexica dont include the whole Triple Alliance so name them Ēxcān Tlahtōlōyān and we all can be happy. All these reminds me of why Byzantines and not Basileia tōn Rhōmaiōn.

Extra note, if everybody want to keep the Aztec blob so why not Nezahualcóyotl as aztec leader? I want my refugee, avenger, liberator, poet and garden builder Texcoco king. A culture+builder Aztecs with the Calmecac as unique building.

ANOTHER EDIT:
Also should not Aztec civ being about city states? The empire core was a alliance of city states, their empires was more a net of bullied vassals than a proper empire like the Incas! And save the widespread Tachtli for Zapotecs and give Aztecs Chinampas. People what so much potential for Aztec design, the only thing that I like about CIV6 Aztecs are the captive mechanic, but there are so many things that can be.

 

[8housesofelixir]

All these reminds me of why Byzantines and not Basileia tōn Rhōmaiōn.

I mean technically is was Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων but a lot of players probably cannot read that name. So everyone stick with Byzantium which is, ehhhh, a city name that already fell out of use during the "Byzantium" rule.

A culture+builder Aztecs with the Calmecac as unique building.

If we can have Calmecac as UB and Chinampa as UI I would say everyone will be happy. They can still have eagle warriors, but when peace come, they can still back to their floating garden.

Also should not Aztec civ being about city states? The empire core was a alliance of city states, their empires was more a net of bullied vassals than a proper empire like the Incas! And save the widespread Tachtli for Zapotecs and give Aztecs Chinampas. People what so much potential for Aztec design, the only thing that I like about CIV6 Aztecs are the captive mechanic, but there are so many things that can be.

I think the problem is we also have Greeks, Phoenicians, and Mayans as a single, centralized civ, not to say a somehow centralized Holy Roman Empire and a centralized Kamakura Shogunate.

Decentralization isn't something that 4x games can portray very well, and we also lost the vassalage comparing to Civ 5.

 

[Patine]

This is related to CIV6 since after Humankind's and AoE3: DE's Haudenosaunee if "Iroquois" come back to CIV they would be for sure Haudenosaunee (so a "new" civ on the serie like Phoenicians or Gauls ).

I was under the strong impression that Haudenosaunee was the name of the political governing structural (often called the Iroquois "Confederacy," in English), and not an ethnonym - of which each of the six member nations were used separately for that purpose.

I mean technically is was Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων but a lot of players probably cannot read that name. So everyone stick with Byzantium which is, ehhhh, a city name that already fell out of use during the "Byzantium" rule.

Actually, the Byzantines to themselves as "Romans," ethnically and culturally, as they didn't share the modern historiographical view that the Roman Empire ended when Odoacer captured Rome in 476. This makes it even more confusing, in truth.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Decentralization isn't something that 4x games can portray very well, and we also lost the vassalage comparing to Civ 5.

I actually think Himankind has a good chance of doing this well with the decision/4-axes system

 

[Zaarin]

I was under the strong impression that Haudenosaunee was the name of the political governing structural (often called the Iroquois "Confederacy," in English), and not an ethnonym - of which each of the six member nations were used separately for that purpose.

Yes and no. Collectively they are Haudenosaunee, "the People of the Longhouse," but they are also Mohawk, Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, or (later) Tuscarora.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I actually think Himankind has a good chance of doing this well with the decision/4-axes system

IDK, I think realistically speaking as long as you can control your non-capital city's production queue you are quite centralized.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

also we have scholars of SEA even on this chat like @Andrew Johnson [FXS] lol

I'm a native English speaker, but I am fluent in Thai and Lao; I did a PhD in cultural anthro with a specialization in SE Asian history from Cornell in 2010. But that's pretty rare - @8housesofelixir is right in that everyday competence in English in Thailand, Korea and Japan is pretty low. There is a big Thai fanbase, though - I follow them on Facebook - and they play in English. But I would guess that AoE is feeling that indigenous cultural sensitivities are higher given the history of oppression. If you mess up, say, by giving the Cambodian civilization a war elephant with a Sanskrit name (KINDA correct but also kinda not. Like having an English knight UU called "chevalier"), you might get less pushback. "Sioux" and "Iroquois" are outsiders' words for the groups and in the first case not a very polite one. (As is, I suppose, "Byzantium.")

 

[Thenewwwguy]

IDK, I think realistically speaking as long as you can control your non-capital city's production queue you are quite centralized.

even if they could do that through decentralization, no one would trust the AI to be producing stuff